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Expeditions: Rome - the final Expeditions game from Logic Artists

Angelo85

Arcane
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Apr 4, 2010
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Deutschland
Played for 11 hours and unsure if I want to continue. The combat itself is fun, exploration and dialogue adequate. But the frequency of random CYOA and especially the legion battle stuff is totally crushing my desire to continue. It feels disconnected from the core gameplay and way too much of a time waster between the actual fun parts.
Sometimes less is more. I would have preferred a more focused experience.
 

Sunri

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
2,948
Location
Poland
Played for 11 hours and unsure if I want to continue. The combat itself is fun, exploration and dialogue adequate. But the frequency of random CYOA and especially the legion battle stuff is totally crushing my desire to continue. It feels disconnected from the core gameplay and way too much of a time waster between the actual fun parts.
Sometimes less is more. I would have preferred a more focused experience.

If you played 11h you already saw everything this game has to offer in therms of gameplay.
 

Cyberarmy

Love fool
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Feb 7, 2013
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Smyrna - Scalanouva
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Played for 11 hours and unsure if I want to continue. The combat itself is fun, exploration and dialogue adequate. But the frequency of random CYOA and especially the legion battle stuff is totally crushing my desire to continue. It feels disconnected from the core gameplay and way too much of a time waster between the actual fun parts.
Sometimes less is more. I would have preferred a more focused experience.

If you played 11h you already saw everything this game has to offer in therms of gameplay.

Twice probably...
 

HoboForEternity

LIBERAL PROPAGANDIST
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Mar 27, 2016
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liberal utopia in progress
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
finally finished it. felt dragging a bit in act 3, and most encounters became really easy on hard but overall enjoyable experience.

my ending:
-lurco killed his brother
-killed lurco in the end because i dont want my friends to die
-everyone except Uncle Iroh Syneros survived (died by poison :( )
-ran off rome and became adventurer
-greek is peaceful
-nasamones prospered, but i killed ptolemy and cleo so some rebellion rises, just to be subdued by rome
-the druid became leade of gallia and served under rome
 

Saduj

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
2,620
my ending

My ending was exactly the same.

Honestly, I don't see how you can't kill Cleo given how she's portrayed. It reminded me of Vikings where taking down both native kingdoms seemed like your only rational choice given how they treat you.
 

Theodora

Arcane
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Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
4,636
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anima Bȳzantiī
Only started it, and really surprised by just how good the art, music, and writing is so far; but as someone deeply invested in Roman history, I'm mostly just glad they made playing as a female PC exceptional / validated by a bunch of 'lore friendly' excuses, rather than some generic world where sexism and bias don't exist.

And beyond that just a lot of small signs they did their homework, even having them pronounce certain works as they are in Latin (e.g. Asia) -- and Roman Latin, not Ecclesiastical Latin, at that.
 

Theodora

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Glory to Ukraine
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anima Bȳzantiī
18 hours in before realising you can buy manpower

Haha, only 4 for me, but I cheated with Google. They do straight up tell you in the story that that's the main way of restoring manpower, but they could do more to highlight it / make it easier to find that button the first time.
 

Oropay

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2021
Messages
121
8/10 - Sad to see Logic Artists go

I think you get that 'reward' from a sidequest where you buy him some nice wine. I'm playing on Insane difficulty so I assume that the minigame battles are a bit harder numbers wise on that. I think my chance to win the battle without use of that tactic was 6% or something.
Nice when emergent stuff like that pops up. If you don't completely destroy / scatter armies in the battles you fight early to mid act, they retreat and pile up in some of the final fortresses. Even if you have almost no chance to win the first fight against the big armies, you just wear the army down as much as possible and then replace your manpower and attack again, and I can't see how you won't destroy them on the second fight. I played on Insane and never lost a battle because I focused on destroying all the armies I could, although once I won by the skin of my legionaries teeth against a 7.8K (IIRC) strength army
 

Alexios

Augur
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Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
444
Only played a bit of the demo and uninstalled it shortly after the first battle. Overall seems like the game was put together pretty haphazardly. It was retarded how everyone kisses your ass at the beginning and then suddenly the main guy calls you "kid" when he asks what your opinion is. I'll probably buy the game when it goes on sale for cheap but right now it doesn't seem worth $45 at all.

'roman latin pronunciation' with typical anglo speaking habits is not something to be applauded
The pronunciation doesn't even seem to be correct in some places.
 

Angelo85

Arcane
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Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
1,574
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Deutschland
Played for 11 hours and unsure if I want to continue. The combat itself is fun, exploration and dialogue adequate. But the frequency of random CYOA and especially the legion battle stuff is totally crushing my desire to continue. It feels disconnected from the core gameplay and way too much of a time waster between the actual fun parts.
Sometimes less is more. I would have preferred a more focused experience.

Alright so I did actually power through and just now finished the game after roughly 50 hours. The combat encounters stayed fun and varied all the way through to the end and I think it's a worthwhile game to play. The final act/conclusion brought the story to a satisfying end. There was also a surprising amount of CnC for this type of game.
Still would have been a much better experience by far without the tacked-on legion battle shenanigans.

:5/5::2/5: 7/10 trolls from me.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
rather than some generic world where sexism and bias don't exist.
lol fucking what
that's exactly what they did except they lecture you on it anytime it comes up to hammer home how terrible women have it but btw you're totally speshul so it doesn't apply to you

the only time the game cares in the absolute least about any sort of historical accuracy is when they're using it to bludgeon you over the head with it
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,637
Location
Bulgaria
:hmmm:


So i got a few free days and decided to clean up me gpu and check out the game.......and it feels like total decline. Both conquistadors and vikings were superior in every aspect. Levelling is pretty dumbed down,the inventory is a clusterfuck,there is no map,the zoom level is beyond retarded,combat is pretty shit,most of it is against endless enemy spawn also retarded armour mechanics. The fuck happened to the franchise lol
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,637
Location
Bulgaria
Also it is buggy shit,after 20 minutes of boring combat my friendly unites just froze and now i can't move to my turn. It is pretty funny since the earlier two games too had such a problem but they made the ai turns timed thus if it freeze the turn will be skipped. Now you have to restart the combat....pure shit.
 

baud

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Septentrion
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/06/videogames-history-rome-expeditions/

A Shiny (and Wrong) Vision of Roman Imperialism
Expeditions: Rome tries to be accurate, but it’s all surface.
By Bret Devereaux, a historian specializing in the Roman economy and military.

Expeditions-Rome-videogame-review.png

A screenshot from the Expeditions: Rome videogame.

For the most part, people don’t get their knowledge of history from historians. Most get historical insight from popular culture—and, in turn, base assumptions about foreign policy and politics on that historical foundation. For many people under age 50, video games—from the ever-popular Assassin’s Creed series of conspiracy fantasies to the Total War series that stretches from medieval Japan to the Napoleonic wars—has been a big part of that.

From the very earliest character interactions, Expeditions: Rome goes to considerable lengths to impress a feeling of historical accuracy. The most obvious manifestation of this is the language; many terms (legatus, servus, etc.) are left untranslated and spoken according to classical Latin pronunciation (thus, ser-wus for servus and Ki-ker-oh for Cicero). The game is awash with important-sounding Roman political and military positions, and the player immediately begins running into major historical figures, such as Lucullus and, of course, Julius Caesar. A lot of attention clearly went into accurately rendering some of the most recognizable equipment, such as Roman mail armor, Corinthian helmets, and the gladius in a way that will certainly at least seem accurate to most players. This is a game that wants the player to feel its historical rootedness.

This charm offensive clearly worked to a significant degree with reviewers. Writer Robert Zak, in a piece for PC Gamer, writes, “Where Expeditions: Rome really shines is in its attention to historical detail.” Reviewer Leana Hafer, writing for IGN, calls it “one of the best historical playgrounds outside of Assassin’s Creed … it goes out of its way to get a lot of small details right,” though she admits it isn’t “slavishly loyal to the sources.” Unfortunately, while Expeditions: Rome is a well-made tactical and role-playing game, it puts its historical efforts into appearing and sounding historically accurate rather than actually being historically accurate, lending its mischaracterizations an unearned patina of historical authenticity. That matches a tendency for popular culture, especially video games, to use the appearance of historical accuracy as a marketing tool without much regard to actual history. The problem with that is that, unlike pure fantasies, the audience can come away thinking they’ve learned something while actually being deeply off course.

The way Expeditions: Rome treats historical equipment expresses the game’s treatment of history more generally. Much of the equipment was clearly modeled off of period artwork and surviving artifacts, so it looks historical, but each faction plays its greatest hits with little regard for the time period. Thus, the Greek opponents of the first chapter fight with heavy soldiers equipped like fourth century BC hoplites rather than the more common first century BC pike-and-shield-wielding phalangites or oval shield-carrying thureophoroi. The second act takes the error further, with Egyptian soldiers resembling the troops of the New Kingdom (1550-1077 BC), nearly a thousand years too late rather than the far more Greek-inflected armies of Egypt’s Ptolemaic era, a habit that also plagues popular strategy games like Rome: Total War, which also exoticize Ptolemaic armies. Roman and Gallic panoplies are more accurate, though the Roman equipment also features chronological fudging, with the chest plate’s pectoral showing up probably a century too late and the iconic lorica segmentata decades too early. Care was taken that the armor would look right—but not that it would be right.

Bizarrely, the game opts to leave most of its statues unpainted, even as it accurately paints most of the buildings. Historians are quite certain that Greek and Roman statues were painted, often in garish colors. For a game that clearly put so much effort into visual accuracy (if not chronological accuracy), this omission is both striking and worrying.

Expeditions: Rome attempts to be more careful with the touchy subjects of Roman imperialism and slavery, a welcome change from the willingness of other historically set games, such as Assassin’s Creed Valhalla, to aggressively whitewash or even erase these subjects, but it doesn’t fully succeed. Depending on the player’s choices, Roman imperialism can have negative consequences for the places you visit, but the effect can be muted. Soldiers extort and exploit locals, but the frequently stunning brutality of Roman conquest mostly occurs off-screen—when it occurs at all. That’s a contrast even with earlier games in the series; Expeditions: Conquistador generally let the player be a much nicer version of the Spanish invaders—forging alliances and making friends, even if you were berated by the king for doing so at the end—but it also forced the player to do their killing on screen—sometimes of unarmored, desperate people who were no match for the player’s soldiers. Two-side quests in the third act involve forging alliances with Gallic druids, befuddling given this is a religious practice the Romans brutally and systematically exterminated. The impact of Roman imperialism in much of the game is dependent on player choices, but since most players of these sorts of games prefer to play good characters, most players will experience a benign form of Roman imperialism, quite divorced from the brutality of the real thing.

Significant effort is made to put Roman slavery on screen; the player’s party consists of two freed persons and one enslaved man. The game’s insistence that the two freed persons, a Mauretanian man and a Scythian woman, both become legally Roman when freed is a welcome recognition of a real source of Roman diversity. Syneros, the player’s enslaved tutor and scribe, however, falls into the unfortunate trope of the loyal slave, happily serving the player character’s family and largely unbothered by his enslavement. Although enslaved people are shown as mistreated and exploited in several side quests, at the same time, some of the dialogue is quick to exonerate characters like Lucullus as good or kind masters.

Expeditions: Rome thus falls into the trap of treating Roman slavery as an institution whose character depended on the morality of the enslaver. In practice, the behavior of even so-called kind Roman enslavers was generally brutal. It is nevertheless a sad statement on the general quality of video game representations, that merely by featuring freed and enslaved people, Expeditions: Rome probably performs better than average.

By contrast, the game openly warns that it plays fast and loose with chronology, killing off a major historical figure very early on. Loading screens note that the second act contest between Cleopatra and Ptolemy XIII has been accelerated by the villain’s machinations, though not just how sped up the timeline is. Following the game’s dates, the second act begins sometime in the mid-60s BC; Cleopatra, born around 69 BC, should be a toddler and her brother Ptolemy XIII, born around 62 BC, isn’t alive yet. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the game also indulges in a heavily sexualized and exoticized portrait of Cleopatra, dressed in a network dress straight out of the Bronze Age rather than the Greek fashion she used, for instance, on all of her coinage.

The game also struggles to grasp the Roman Republic’s political systems, which are central to the game’s plot. A few brief examples: A character is appointed to a proconsular command years before being a consul, something that was at least profoundly irregular, though Pompey had done it in 77 BC; yet there is no hint of protest. In the final act, a trial is held for a sitting consul, a thing that was not legally possible since a consul or proconsul’s imperium shielded them from prosecution until they left office, a fact that is absolutely essential to understanding the crisis of 49 BC that led to Caesar crossing the Rubicon. The trial is held in the Senate, a body which could not, in the republic, conduct trials. Later, the Senate’s nomination of a dictator mistakes Roman procedure at almost every point.

The game’s Cicero claims that “Senators should represent the people,” which is not what senators did—that was the job of Rome’s popular assemblies—but also very much not what Cicero in particular thought they should do. In his De Re Publica, he praises the Roman system for power being concentrated among the wealthy few rather than among the common people. Senators did not have constituents to represent; they spoke for themselves out of their own authority. The Republic was not a democracy and made no pretense at being one.

Even the Latin, on which so much of the game’s impression of historical care relies, is checkered in execution. Common Roman soldiers are uniformly referred to as legionarii, but legionarius was almost never used this way in Latin; ancient writers more often used milites (“soldiers”). If legionarius was used at all, it was as an adjective to modify milites. (That is, legionarii milites or “legionary soldiers.”) The provinces are misnamed, with Asia termed Asia Minor and Africa called Africa Proconsularis, the latter decades and the former centuries before the terms were coined.

For all of that, the game is still fun and well made. As the third game in the Expeditions series, the tactics of gameplay are well honed, though the newly added strategic layer doesn’t add much depth to the game or express anything particularly accurate about Roman warfare. The player’s supporting characters and their stories are interesting, and the voice acting is well above par, especially for a smaller, independent game studio.

As a gaming experience, there is a lot to recommend in Expeditions: Rome, but as a window into the Roman world, the game fails to live up to its promises. Like many historically set games, the accuracy is mostly skin deep, a useful tool for marketing but not penetrating deeper into the story, where it could convey more useful historical truths.
 
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Mitleser

Novice
Joined
May 9, 2019
Messages
37
Well the obligatory nods to diversity and slavery aside, where exactly is he wrong? The accuracy of Expeditions:Rome is skin deep and essentially a theme park version of the real thing, its "authencity" is that of a hollywood movie like "Gladiator" so that the average doofus can recognize it. Just ask your average normie what ethnicity Cleopatra was or where the name comes from and despair. Historicity and good gameplay are often mutually exclusive and rare is the historically accurate game that manages to have good gameplay- too often you have to serve popular stereotypes and sacrifice accuracy for a satisfying gameplay loop.
 

baud

Arcane
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Joined
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Septentrion
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
All said and done this Devereaux chap seems to have some tremendous Imperial butthurt.

well, since he's professor specialized in Roman history, of course he's got opinions on the consequences of imperial powers. I've been following his blog over at acoup.blog for quite some time and he's written a bunch of interesting stuff, either on more pop culture viewed by the lens of a military history (on Lord of the Rings, Games of Thrones, Paradox Grand strategy games) or on more historic subject like Sparta, material production in pre-modern era, fortifications, trench warfare... Yes, he's got his (liberal) biases, but I found his writing enjoyable, mostly easy to follow and instructive.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
All said and done this Devereaux chap seems to have some tremendous Imperial butthurt.

well, since he's professor specialized in Roman history, of course he's got opinions on the consequences of imperial powers. I've been following his blog over at acoup.blog for quite some time and he's written a bunch of interesting stuff, either on more pop culture viewed by the lens of a military history (on Lord of the Rings, Games of Thrones, Paradox Grand strategy games) or on more historic subject like Sparta, material production in pre-modern era, fortifications, trench warfare... Yes, he's got his (liberal) biases, but I found his writing enjoyable, mostly easy to follow and instructive.
Yeah.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
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14,466
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://community.expeditionsseries...legion-battle-update-and-gamepad-support-r26/

DevDiary 19 - Legion Battle Update and Gamepad Support

Ave! After a small break, we have another DevDiary for you with an update on two of the major things we’ve been working on for Expeditions: Rome. Since our last update, we’ve made excellent progress on the new legion battle system, and we’re pleased to report that it’s shaping up to be a lot more interesting than the old minigame. At the same time, we’ve been working to improve our gamepad support to get rid of the cursor emulation in most parts of the game, to make it a better experience to play Rome from the comfort of your couch.

First, let’s take a look at the state of the legion battle system. If you didn’t read our last DevDiary where we talked about our plans, you may want to go and skim over it now so we’re all on the same page before you read on.




All caught up? Great. Now: our technical designer Casper finished a prototype implementation of the improved legion battles a week and a half ago and started working on some basic rebalancing. Once this was in place, we were able to play around with the system and get a sense of how it feels. As hoped, the changes have both made the legion battles easier to understand and greatly improved the sense that your stratagem choices really matter. One wrong decision or reckless risk taken can cause the death of one of your centurions or mean the difference between the enemy army scattering or retreating to fight another day.

The fact that you now interface with the system entirely through the specialisation points from your centurions and stratagems, gives you a better overview of the ebb and flow of battle. The unpredictability of the previous behind-the-scenes dice-rolls is replaced by which stratagems are played by your enemy, but since you get some up-front information about that, you can adjust your choices based on what the enemy does. This adds a feeling that your enemies are working against you, which supports the fantasy of legion command much better than the randomness of the old system (and makes you curse your enemies when they counter your Artillery points, preventing you from reaching the next tier in that specialisation).



One discovery we made as we were testing was that we still needed to keep the more specific direct effects on the outcome cards. As you may know from playing the current game, the stratagem selection you get at the end of each battle changes depending on whether you won or lost. Since these cards take effect after the outcome of the battle is already determined, it made little sense to keep adding more points to the specialisations, since many of the specialisation effects are no longer relevant once the battle is won or lost. For this reason, you’ll still see specific effects on those cards in the new system, such as Show Mercy costing you a few Morale points while replenishing your Legion Manpower with fresh recruits.

Once we knew that we had achieved what we wanted with the new system, Casper started working with our intrepid UI designer Anca to update the interface to look good and communicate the new features. A lot of work was put into adding new animations to help the player understand what’s happening. The tutorials have also been updated, explaining the legion battles in substantially more detail than the old system was.



The other major update we’ve been working on is proper gamepad support. As you know if you’ve tried to enable controller input while playing Expeditions: Rome, the current version relies heavily on cursor emulation. Our first priority was to remove cursor emulation from the exploration, worldmap, and combat parts of the game. The character is now controlled directly by the Left Stick outside of combat. Movement uses the same sort of pathfinding as you get if you hold down the left mouse button when playing on mouse and keyboard, so your character will automatically move around objects, avoid obstacles, and so on. It can take a little getting used to, but it feels very organic after a moment, and prevents you running into walls.

In combat, the camera moves freely but the cursor is replaced by a crosshair at the center of the viewport that selects characters and tells them where to go. You can of course still cycle characters with the bumper buttons as you’d expect. Skills are cycled with the D-Pad by default, and the face buttons swap weapons, toggle the character tooltip, and reset the camera focus.



The next big task before we can consider the controller implementation final is to update most of the UIs to get rid of the cursor emulation as well, allowing you to navigate with the D-Pad and the sticks instead, and assigning new shortcuts to common functions. We’ve already updated the dialogue panel so you cycle the options with the D-Pad and continue or skip with the face buttons, and we’ve just updated all the UIs related to character creation as well. We’re probably going to keep the cursor emulation in the party panels (the skill and inventory screens) since it allows you to read all the tooltips and frankly makes inventory navigation faster than if you’d have to navigate with a D-Pad, but we have other solutions for all other interface panels.

The legion battle system may be released within the next couple of weeks, but you should expect full gamepad support around the beginning of April. Thank you so much for playing Expeditions: Rome and giving us your feedback, and please do join our DevStream this Wednesday, March 16th, at 1:00 PM Eastern / 5:00 PM GMT at http://twitch.tv/thqnordic. We’ll show off a little of the new legion battle system and answer your questions about it, about playing Rome with a controller, or really about anything you’d like to ask about the game.

Valete!
 

Lemming42

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Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,806
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The Satellite Of Love
Not to be a whiny bastard but I'm like an hour in and I'm pissed about being made a Legate. What's this weird-ass battle system where lots of icons move at each other while I choose cards?

I feel like Conquistador was already a pretty perfect formula - you control a small party (made of people of your choosing) and that's the scope of the game. You walk around on the map doing CYOA shit and getting into turn baesd battles. It was great. What's all this new stuff? I don't want to gather crafting supplies to build a base! I don't want to control armies! Shit! I just want to lead a small party entirely made of people with the "RACIST" trait and then aggro them by inviting locals into the team!

The scope of this one just feels too big and the extra systems are a distraction from the best thing in the game, the small turn-based battles.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,806
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Playing some more of it and, to dredge up shit from the last few pages, the special objectives in combat are annoying as hell. What's the point of even building characters to suit a playstyle if you end up just having to haul ass over to a set location within four turns anyway. Plus virtually all battles have reinforcements, fuck off.

Super annoying because again, the combat is the best thing about the game - but not only do they make you do a bunch of dumb world map shit before actually getting to the combat, but when you finally actually get to some proper gameplay, it's rendered an annoyance because it's a matter of "find out how to beat this in X number of turns" or "try to move the whole party over here while guys keep spawning next to you".

How hard is it to just make a turn-based combat game? Please! PLEASE
 

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