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Explain something to a VR illiterate nignog like me

Darkwind

Liturgist
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Joined
Aug 1, 2019
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514
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
The reality is that there is no substitute for bandwidth so unless you are on Wifi-6E you simply are not going to get any image quality even close on Wi-Fi, especially on the more recent releases of Oculus Link that support much higher bandwidths.

Your real statement should be that wireless is for people with average to potato rigs that don't have the GPU / horsepower to push a wired cable to its limits. I have a monster rig and the difference between the ~3GBps available on the Link Cable vs the 867Mbps that Virtual Desktop can push is very noticeable.

A properly setup Link cable with Oculus Tray Tool is some next level shit, it is mind blowing in fact. Half-Life: Alyx in that configuration is what I imagined VR would be back in 2016 when I first tried out the HTC Vive and came back very disappointed. Now? It is next level.

All that being said, I --do-- like Virtual Desktop when I'm "slumming" and want to just chill w/o having the hassle of the wire to deal with. Beat Saber and other games like that are fine with VD. Heavy hitters like Half-Life and Asgard's Wrath that have mind blowing graphics get the cable only.

I don't know what you are sniffing but i want some of that. I have 3080 and run "monster rig". I can't see any difference between link cable and my wifi6 virtual desktop connection. In fact oculus stated that due to how their conversion works on the fly link cable doesn't even use more than 100mbit/s.

And yeah fuck cables.

"my wifi6 virtual desktop connection"

Now read what I wrote again, more slowly this time... you'll get it. But even though that flew over your head the 100MB/s limit hasn't been a thing for a while just FYI. You don't see a difference because you are getting wired speeds over your Wi-Fi lots of people don't have Wi-Fi 6E yet so aren't going to get that benefit. Oculus Tray Tool literally shows you real time stats regarding throughput / latency / etc. in the HMD that disproves that 100MB/s theory.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,924
the 100MB/s limit hasn't been a thing for a while just FYI

It is Mbit/s not MB/s. And yes. Oculus changed its algorithm and now you can even use USB2.0 as link cable. They lowered down requirements and you can go as low as 10mbit/s. Max 100mbit/s via oculus Air


ots of people don't have Wi-Fi 6E yet so aren't going to get that benefit.

If you don't have Wifi6 you shouldn't even try wireless to begin with. It is not about bandwidth because even Wifi5 has enough bandwidth. It is about latency and how packets are sent as Wifi6 changes this in major way.
 

PompiPompi

Man with forever hair
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Developer
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3,147
RPG Wokedex
Oculus has AppSW, which lets you render at half the frame rate, and interpolate the frames in 3D. It's pretty sweet.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,924
Both things are Compressed/Streamed video Streams instead of direct video signal. You don't need to argue about which is shittier, they both are. It would have been easy for them to (and there are other Alternatives that) connect directly via DisplayPort, for instance: https://uploadvr.com/pico-neo-3-link-everything-we-know/
You head is shit.
VD has image quality easily on par with cable.

Also we are not talking here about jpeg compression. PNGs also are compressed but you won't find anyone arguing they look like shit.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
You're just not going to get the same video quality from a compressed and decompressed video Stream as from an uncompressed digital video signal coming directly out of your graphics card (via DisplayPort/HDMI/DVI). Claiming otherwise or saying it looks the same or there isn't a difference just proves you're fucking retarded. Also if you were wondering, no your graphics card isn't sending a Stream of PNGs Wirelessly to your HMD. It's H.264/265.
 
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Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,924
You're just not going to get the same video quality from a compressed and decompressed video Stream as from a direct uncompressed video signal coming out of your graphics card (DisplayPort/HDMI/DVI). Claiming otherwise or saying it looks the same or there isn't a difference just proves you're fucking retarded.

How many megabits of data you need in order for 4k stream to be at the same quality as uncompressed image ?
I don't talk how many bits you need to much bits but how much bits is needed to match VISUAL quality.

I am willing to bet 10$ that you won't see a difference between 4k stream with 100mbit/s vs uncompressed full bore HDMI 2.1 at 43GBit/s.

That is my point.

Diminishing returns.

I can see difference with Oculus Airlink but i can't with VD when i put it on 100mbit/s. Simple as that.
Your headset LCD panel quality and image processing will introduce more problems than stream itself.

By same argument uncompressed DVD at 1080p should look better than 4k stream at 40mbit/s which obviously is not true.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
By same argument uncompressed DVD at 1080p should look better than 4k stream at 40mbit/s which obviously is not true.
If you were wondering about the general technical expertise of your typical Perkel post btw. There's no such thing as an "uncompressed DVD". DVDs usually use MPEG-2. DVDs do not do 1080p, the resolutions are either 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL). 1080p resolution on digital media is a Blu-ray thing. These would also be compressed but usually using more advanced codecs like MPEG-4 AVC or VC-1. A 4K Stream or UHD Blu-Ray would be similarly compressed but likely using HEVC. H.264/265 are also the same Codecs used for video compression Wirelessly or via Link.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,924
By same argument uncompressed DVD at 1080p should look better than 4k stream at 40mbit/s which obviously is not true.
If you were wondering about the general technical expertise of your typical Perkel post btw. There's no such thing as an "uncompressed DVD". DVDs usually use MPEG-2. DVDs do not do 1080p, the resolutions are either 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL). 1080p resolution on digital media is a Blu-ray thing. These would also be compressed but usually using more advanced codecs like MPEG-4 AVC or VC-1. A 4K Stream or UHD Blu-Ray would be similarly compressed but likely using HEVC. H.264/265 are also the same Codecs used for video compression Wirelessly or via Link.

nigger please.
Will 10mbit/s 1080p stream from DVD (DVD max speed is 10mbit/s) look better than 40mbit/s 4k stream ?
Yes or no.

The answer: transfer rate is just rough estimation of quality and can't be used to say anything without other arguments in equation. 1080p 720p 4k are all just number that tell you nothing about end quality they are just containers.

The point of DVD is to show how retarded your argument is.

You take transfer rate as absolute and base your stupid position on it.

VD is on par with Link cable because i literally tested it multiple times. There is no reason to ever use link cable if you have VD. Airlink on other hand has worse quality.
 

Neuromancer

Augur
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
1,238
You're just not going to get the same video quality from a compressed and decompressed video Stream as from an uncompressed digital video signal coming directly out of your graphics card (via DisplayPort/HDMI/DVI). Claiming otherwise or saying it looks the same or there isn't a difference just proves you're fucking retarded. Also if you were wondering, no your graphics card isn't sending a Stream of PNGs Wirelessly to your HMD. It's H.264/265.
This kind of reminds me of a discussion I had with a girl some years ago (in real life, not online).

She was totally convinced that there was no need to upgrade to a BluRay player, because there is no visual difference between BluRays and DVD anyway. Whereas for me, the difference is like night and day.
In the end it turned out, that her eyesight was just pretty bad. ;)

I guess something similar is the case here.
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,851
I tried one of these carnival vr attractions once. Those are 3dof cheap as fuck phone vr headsets that constantly jitter, have shit lenses with no real ipd adjustment, bad tracking (3dof is vomit inducing as soon as you move or tilt your head). And it runs you through a uber low budget digital roller coaster.

As a bonus service you get skin germs of dozens of previous users.

Its a shit experience and not comparable AT ALL to true roomscale VR
 

PompiPompi

Man with forever hair
Patron
Developer
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
3,147
RPG Wokedex
I tried one of these carnival vr attractions once. Those are 3dof cheap as fuck phone vr headsets that constantly jitter, have shit lenses with no real ipd adjustment, bad tracking (3dof is vomit inducing as soon as you move or tilt your head). And it runs you through a uber low budget digital roller coaster.

As a bonus service you get skin germs of dozens of previous users.

Its a shit experience and not comparable AT ALL to true roomscale VR
Some people in VR conventions got eye herpes from using the same VR headset. Real thing.
 

PompiPompi

Man with forever hair
Patron
Developer
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
3,147
RPG Wokedex
How long do these headsets stay charged?
It depends on the USE case.
If you play on the Quest 2 natively, and you run something at 120 Hz, heavy graphics, it can be 2 hours.
The controllers also have batteries. The Quest 2 controllers use one AA battery each, and they last a very long time.
You can connect your quest 2 to a USB cable, charge it while the cable is connected to the PC and play via link at the same time.
So you can play while you charge. Kind of like a laptop.

The complaints about the new Quest Pro, is that the chargeable batteries of the controllers only last 2 hours.
The issue with that, is that you cannot charge your controllers while playing at the same time.
The controllers of the Quest Pro, have their own Android Device inside them. they have little cameras. They are like their own device.
People say the Quest Pro is more for professional work, and less for gaming.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
13,148
Yeah, from what these addicts say during interviews alone 2 hours must be utter crap. As an aside, good as one shouldn't probably sit in there all the time. I don't know if these people are sitting, standing, lying down, etc. Those Peloton bikes is almost like another type of VR and you could probably use a helmet with it.
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,851
Uhm you can extend playtime to almost infinite with a battery pack. I taped a 10k mah battery to the back of my headstrap. It also functions as counterbalance this way since the Quest2 is pretty frontheavy. There are also headstraps with included battery packs from Kiwi and Bobo.

Treadmills are goofy and pretty crappy from what ive gathered. I play standing up with 3x4meters play area in my livingroom. You move forward with your left thumbstick and you crouch, lean and turn physically. You only sit down when you sit ingame.

Ofcourse if youre a fat slob you wont be playing for very long that way, but if thats the case you shouldnt be playing videogames. You should be lifting heavy objects until you have a healthy and strong body.
 
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KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
13,148
Lifting your heavy body walking is prolly enough to start. I knew a guy who thought he'd hit the gym after a few decades of gaming (kid to adult). Well, he got major hernia being an idiot. And he gave up and back to couch +hernia. Dunno if he had surgery.
 

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