Fallout Fallout 2 is way worse than I remember it.

[blessed king of longing]

"NO U", is that the best you can come up with, you intellectually bancrupt imbecile? I already made my arguments, you have yet to make an actual argument to show how Fallout is "better". Of course like all disingenuous dimwitted dumbfucks all you can do is do the pigeon move and pretend victory. Why should anyone take you seriously agian, little soycuck?

Except you made zero arguments and just sperged at mine. Speaking of disingenuous... you keep projecting

 

[agris]

talk to me about crafting in habbo hotel pls, and what's the equivalent of lurker leather??

 

[PEACH]

while you're at it where are all the pre teens and pedos in underrail? I must've missed those questlines

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

But it is 500 days long . . . far longer than most people need to complete the game.

If you patched (official patch, I don't even mean mod stuff) it's actually 13 years of in game time. Steam and gog versions come already patched. You would have to grind random encounters to the death to even hope to see the effect of the deadline. An act more befitting of a robot than a human.

People are shitting themselves over a non event.

Huh. Sounds like they realized the timer sucked then, and removed it. Too bad they didn't realize that in the first place and unnecessarily drove players away for a pretend feature.

Wrong. Animations and sound effects which create the tactile sensation are part of the combat. Fallout 2 would not have turned heads with its combat system without that tactile feedback, it's the final piece, the feedback that your build is working and killing dudes.

And now that I see someone mention it, that is part of the problem with Underrail that I never put my finger on.

Fallout 2 didn't have as much depth as it appeared to, that's true. The crit mechanics overpowered the armor mechanics, making piercing rounds worthless.

Underrail totally lacks polish, the writing is fucking terrible, the visuals are lackluster. It's a sandbox for building combat RPG characters, and it's pretty damn good at that. Fallout 1 and 2 are classics, Underrail won't be a footnote because there's nothing memorable about it.

These retarded 5 page walls of text where you respond to each and every word some other retard said is a good demonstration of the fact that good games can attract stupid fans. You're all enjoying fallout and underrail wrong go play wii bowling you fucking casuals.

You were 100% right until the last line - blame the Underrail babbies who come into a Fallout thread talking shit they can't back up.

Already got one of them to outright stop replying because he can't keep up with his own claims.

Driving away all the other participants in a discussion isn't winning. That's the loss condition for most social interactions in fact. Go play wii bowling you fucking casual.

 

[Semiurge]

Fuck timers. I don't need timers for immershun and momentum.

 

[blessed king of longing]

while you're at it where are all the pre teens and pedos in underrail? I must've missed those questlines

the preteens are the players before they turn into pedos.

 

[blessed king of longing]

Huh. Sounds like they realized the timer sucked then, and removed it. Too bad they didn't realize that in the first place and unnecessarily drove players away for a pretend feature.


Driving away all the other participants in a discussion isn't winning. That's the loss condition for most social interactions in fact. Go play wii bowling you fucking casual.

Debate isn't about inclusivity, it's about winning. Not my problem people can't handle it. You sound like a carebear.

Butthurt onlyreacts - suck it up.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

But it is 500 days long . . . far longer than most people need to complete the game.

If you patched (official patch, I don't even mean mod stuff) it's actually 13 years of in game time. Steam and gog versions come already patched. You would have to grind random encounters to the death to even hope to see the effect of the deadline. An act more befitting of a robot than a human.

People are shitting themselves over a non event.

Huh. Sounds like they realized the timer sucked then, and removed it. Too bad they didn't realize that in the first place and unnecessarily drove players away for a pretend feature.

Wrong. Animations and sound effects which create the tactile sensation are part of the combat. Fallout 2 would not have turned heads with its combat system without that tactile feedback, it's the final piece, the feedback that your build is working and killing dudes.

And now that I see someone mention it, that is part of the problem with Underrail that I never put my finger on.

Fallout 2 didn't have as much depth as it appeared to, that's true. The crit mechanics overpowered the armor mechanics, making piercing rounds worthless.

Underrail totally lacks polish, the writing is fucking terrible, the visuals are lackluster. It's a sandbox for building combat RPG characters, and it's pretty damn good at that. Fallout 1 and 2 are classics, Underrail won't be a footnote because there's nothing memorable about it.

These retarded 5 page walls of text where you respond to each and every word some other retard said is a good demonstration of the fact that good games can attract stupid fans. You're all enjoying fallout and underrail wrong go play wii bowling you fucking casuals.

You were 100% right until the last line - blame the Underrail babbies who come into a Fallout thread talking shit they can't back up.

Already got one of them to outright stop replying because he can't keep up with his own claims.

Driving away all the other participants in a discussion isn't winning. That's the loss condition for most social interactions in fact. Go play wii bowling you fucking casual.

Covered in one of the videos. He regretted ever putting it in and said if he could redo it, there would be NO timer.

 

[Sykar]

Huh. Sounds like they realized the timer sucked then, and removed it. Too bad they didn't realize that in the first place and unnecessarily drove players away for a pretend feature.


Driving away all the other participants in a discussion isn't winning. That's the loss condition for most social interactions in fact. Go play wii bowling you fucking casual.

Debate isn't about inclusivity, it's about winning. Not my problem people can't handle it. You sound like a carebear.

Debate was which game has better combat. It is Underrail by leaps and bounds to anyone who is not a disingenuous dumbfuck like you. Most Fallout fans acknowledge that combat is the weakest part of Fallout and is inferior to most other cRPGs in terms of strategic and tactical depth. This is indisputable just like Underrail being superior at both tactical and strategic layer of combat due to so many factors from ability to prepare for different areas with different gears and drugs to intricate gear system to incredibly diverse build options to combat especially on hard and dom being extremely unforgiving where one bad choice can ruin everything. All you can bring up is "Derp I dont like crafting, derp" even though unless you play Dominating it is not even mandatory.

 

[blessed king of longing]

Debate was which game has better combat. It is Underrail by leaps and bounds to anyone who is not a disingenuous dumbfuck like you. Most Fallout fans acknowledge that combat is the weakest part of Fallout and is inferior to most other cRPGs in terms of strategic and tactical depth. This is indisputable just like Underrail being superior at both tactical and strategic layer of combat due to so many factors from ability to prepare for different areas with different gears and drugs to intricate gear system to incredibly diverse build options to combat especially on hard and dom being extremely unforgiving where one bad choice can ruin everything. All you can bring up is "Derp I dont like crafting, derp" even though unless you play Dominating it is not even mandatory.

Actually, the debate was the entirety of Underrail being an ugly and pale imitation and then fanboys immediately started sperging. And neither of you has been able to establish why Underrail combat is so amazing - you just completely skirt over how similar it is to Fallout, how many things it copies, the fact that a 3 year old could play it, how all you need is mouse1, how its more of a shmup than rpg.

It is Underrail by leaps and bounds to anyone who is not a disingenuous dumbfuck like you.

No true scotsman fallacy - gamer edition

Most Fallout fans acknowledge that combat is the weakest part of Fallout

Appeal to consensus - and where is your proof that "most fans" acknowledge this? Do you think you have somehow tapped into the "hivemind" of the entire fanbase? Again - the combat is basically identical to Underrail - shooting yourself in the foot yet again.

is inferior to most other cRPGs in terms of strategic and tactical depth

Again, you're unwittingly speaking of Underrail - the combat is nearly identical, except it has less features.

This is indisputable

I'm disputing it, that alone makes your statement a baseless claim.

Underrail being superior at both tactical and strategic layer of combat due to so many factors from ability to prepare for different areas with different gears and drugs to intricate gear system

Again - what's so tactical and strategic about Underrail? It has less features and can be played entirely with mouse 1, even a 3 year old can do it - your words. "intricate gear system" - as I've already said before:

Forcing you to craft shit you don't actually want to use while simultaneously forcing you out of stealth to painstakingly wheres-whally drag on ~4 pieces of armor from the fucked up inventory, also bloating your inventory and fucking up your weight limit? GIMME MORE! t. underrail fanturds

Do you honestly think there's no such thing as preparing for different areas in Fallout? That there are no drugs? No different gears? You keep outing yourself as someone who has never played the games

incredibly diverse build options to combat especially on hard and dom being extremely unforgiving where one bad choice can ruin everything

Yeah cool, pistols are worthless, rifles are boring, smg's are rifles with less range, sniping is cringe, psi doesn't fit the setting, throwing is artificially limited, unarmed is literally a gun with 0 range and you can't knock anyone out without perks or magic, dom is metagaming and savescum city. And ontop of it all, they already exist in Fallout - except they're better. Such incredible diversity of combat "one bad choice can ruin everything" is true of any game, dumbass

All you can bring up is "Derp I dont like crafting, derp"

Yeah, definitely my only single point this entire time has been "i don't like crafting" - you must be retarded

even though unless you play Dominating it is not even mandatory.

Another instance of "indie therefore I love to eat shit". "DUDE you don't even have to use it, why do you care?"
The habbo hotel with gunz fandom isn't sending their best

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I'd like to see a blow per blow comparison between the two.
Stygian wiki
Underrail Steam community

Fallout Fandom
FO1 steam
FO2 steam

 

[blessed king of longing]

I'd like to see a blow per blow comparison between the two.

You are seeing it, neurotic Underrail turds aren't used to any pushback because Fallout fans are mature enough to not give a shit about "my dad is stronger than your dad" level discourse. See how easily they crumble and get personal over video games
Even Fallout fans have falsehoods being parroted though, the entire "Fallout 2 is full of goofy shit but Fallout 1 isn't" - a simple matter of how short the game is. I've compiled a list of pop culture references in Fallout 1 and it's lengthy indeed.

 

[Sykar]

I'd like to see a blow per blow comparison between the two.

You are seeing it, neurotic Underrail turds aren't used to any pushback because Fallout fans are mature enough to not give a shit about "my dad is stronger than your dad" level discourse. See how easily they crumble and get personal over video games
Even Fallout fans have falsehoods being parroted though, the entire "Fallout 2 is full of goofy shit but Fallout 1 isn't" - a simple matter of how short the game is. I've compiled a list of pop culture references in Fallout 1 and it's lengthy indeed.

 

[PEACH]

I'd like to see a blow per blow comparison between the two.

Even Fallout fans have falsehoods being parroted though, the entire "Fallout 2 is full of goofy shit but Fallout 1 isn't" - a simple matter of how short the game is. I've compiled a list of pop culture references in Fallout 1 and it's lengthy indeed.

FO1 peppers in jokes and references but maintains congruency in its world building and tone. in contrast FO2 is a wacky theme park full of shit like tribals, gangsters, hubologists and the shi where novelty comes first and believability comes second. in short, consistency was sacrificed for variety. that might be due to FO2's expanded scope, but there's no doubt there are major tonal differences between the two that go well beyond a higher volume of references and jokes.

whether you prefer one or the other is another conversation entirely, but FO2 has that reputation for good reason.

 

[Ismaul]

in short, consistency was sacrificed for variety. that might be due to FO2's expanded scope

I think it's also the design process that is at fault, and it is tied with how they divide the work.

They gave each area to a different designer. So each did it his way, with little regards to the consistency of the whole, setting and plot both, only the area's consistency. This is an issue in the design method that has been present for every project at Black Isle and Obsidian that didn't have either a small team, a small game or a strong creative lead defining a clear vision. Same with other studios such as Bioware. It makes games into theme parks, where each area is just a place you go to experience the local flavor of shit and find the cool stuff.

The consequences of that is that the overarching plot it less connected to the areas, and the cohesion of the whole is lacking. You get a bunch of unrelated and generic quests in each area, like Bioware likes to make them, that are more about the area and the locals than what you are doing there. Some is ok to present the area, but at some point it goes against the character's motivation and the plot. So it either becomes tedious, "trash quests" much like trash fights, filler shit while you're waiting for the plot to kick back in, or it's fun but clashes with the game's tone. Fallout 2, fortunately, is of the second type.

This is quite visible when you look at the best RPGs of the olden times. Fallout 1 was small, had a small team and the Troika as the drivers of vision. PST had Avellone doing everything, keeping it cohesive. Bloodlines had Mitsoda DNA everywhere, even in the voice acting. Mask of the Betrayer was more experimental and Ziets' thing.

Compare with Baldur's Gate 2 that used the theme park method and was full of tedious busywork. In fact all of Bioware's design structure was built around the idea of dividing the work between designers. Find the 4 MacGuffins means we'll build 4 areas, each designer will have his and do whatever he wants in it, and we'll connect them with some overarching bullshit collection thing so it kinda seems like you have a motivation to go there. In KotOR they made the areas into planets. Pillars of Eternity was also built like that, and it shows.

This type of design is cancer, unless you have some serious creative direction to compensate.

 

[Lutte]

One really has to be playing the blind, the deaf and the stupid to act like Fallout 1's pop culture reference, which are indeed numerous, but each rather isolated, are the same thing as Fallout 2 having entire factions everywhere that are batshit insane.

The world of Fallout 2 only makes me wish for another nuclear winter. I mean, it's obvious how tonal deaf this game is when you start in the fucking temple of trials.

Son of bitches, the tone of Fallout 3 is in fact in many ways a continuation of 2's zanyness cranked to 11. You can't bitch about tree harold and fake vampires when you enjoy hubologists, the gangster city and other dumbfuckery.

Arcanum is the spiritual Fallout 2. It's not the fallout setting but it's the fallout-like RPG made by the real Fallout devs.

 

[blessed king of longing]

FO1 peppers in jokes and references but maintains congruency in its world building and tone. in contrast FO2 is a wacky theme park full of shit like tribals, gangsters, hubologists and the shi where novelty comes first and believability comes second. in short, consistency was sacrificed for variety. that might be due to FO2's expanded scope, but there's no doubt there are major tonal differences between the two that go well beyond a higher volume of references and jokes.

whether you prefer one or the other is another conversation entirely, but FO2 has that reputation for good reason.

One really has to be playing the blind, the deaf and the stupid to act like Fallout 1's pop culture reference, which are indeed numerous, but each rather isolated, are the same thing as Fallout 2 having entire factions everywhere that are batshit insane.

The world of Fallout 2 only makes me wish for another nuclear winter. I mean, it's obvious how tonal deaf this game is when you start in the fucking temple of trials.

Son of bitches, the tone of Fallout 3 is in fact in many ways a continuation of 2's zanyness cranked to 11. You can't bitch about tree harold and fake vampires when you enjoy hubologists, the gangster city and other dumbfuckery.

Arcanum is the spiritual Fallout 2. It's not the fallout setting but it's the fallout-like RPG made by the real Fallout devs.

Again, this only seems to be the case because Fallout 1 is so short.

One really has to be playing the coping, sneeding and retarded moron to attempt to move the goalposts to skirt over the most parroted lie (which is a subjective judgment in the first place) that Fallout 1 is a "serious game" and Fallout 2 is some kind of pop culture mashup. I wonder, how many people pretend they actually caught even 1/4th of them before logging on the internets and assuming other peoples finds as their own?

Dr. Who (TARDIS)
Godzilla footprint
Loxley, (Errol Flynn)
Loxley, Robin Hood reference
Elvis
Aliens
Area 51
Ink spots reference 1, I Don't Want to Set the World on Fire
Ink spots reference 2, Maybe
Internet reference, "Interweb"
BoS - militarised monk of St. Leibowitz, Canticle for Leibowitz
BoS - Warhammer reference
Bruce Campbell reference (prefab)
Psykers
Planet of the Apes reference, Captain Maxson diary
Pink Floyd reference, Dane
.223 pistol, Blade Runner
Red Ryder BB gun, A Christmas Story
Red Ryder LE gun, Wasteland reference
Red Ryder BB gun, Wasteland reference
Red Ryder LE gun, A Christmas Story
Lieutenant, many ReBoot references - Number yet to be determined
All Quiet on the Western Front reference
Batman reference
Pipboy Christianity reference
Conan the Barbarian reference
Dune (mentats)
Dune dialog reference
Fallout developer reference 1, Chris Avellone
Fallout developer reference 2, Jess Heinig
Fallout developer reference 3, Jason Anderson
Fallout developer reference 4, Bill Dugan
Fallout developer reference 5, Leonard Boyarsky
Fallout developer reference 6, Brian Fargo
Fallout developer reference 7, Tim Cain
Good night, Gracie show reference
Hulk reference 1 (bonus hth damage)
Hulk reference 2 (mutate)
Mad Max 1 (leather jacket)
Mad max 2 (dog)
Mad max 3 (setting overall)
Npc singing nine inch nails song
Pulp fiction reference in Vault 13 (corpse)
The Simpsons reference (intro, radiation king)
South Park reference 1, "they killed kenny"
South Park reference 2, "you killed kenny"
Soylent Green reference (iguana bob)
Terminator reference , Arnold black prefab's catchphrase
Arnold Swarzenegger reference 1, Arnold black prefab
Arnold Swarzenegger reference 2, ("Arnie" -Survival Guide)
Predator reference, "a.k.a. "Dutch" -Survival Guide"
Tool reference, random posters of Maynard in world
They Live reference 1, BoS in mariposa
They Live reference 2, Cathedral monitors Unity, Pray, Follow
Vampire: The Masquerade reference 1, Camarillo
Vampire: The Masquerade reference 2, Gehenna
WarGames reference, Hub "Let's go play Global-Thermal Nuclear War"
Wizard of Oz reference, Lucy (multiple quotes)
Monty Python reference, Hub (mrs stapleton)
Wasteland reference 1, Alien Blaster (supposed to be Firelance)
Wasteland reference 2, Toaster repair
Wasteland reference 3, Tycho
Wasteland reference 4, Fat Freak from Las Vegas
Café of Broken Dreams - Boulevard of Broken Dreams

I have to say, I always knew it was a bullshit claim, but actually seeing how long it ended up being was staggering And I'm sure there's shit missing from it still! Feel free to add to it.

 

[ItsChon]

Compare with Baldur's Gate 2 that used the theme park method and was full of tedious busywork. In fact all of Bioware's design structure was built around the idea of dividing the work between designers. Find the 4 MacGuffins means we'll build 4 areas, each designer will have his and do whatever he wants in it, and we'll connect them with some overarching bullshit collection thing so it kinda seems like you have a motivation to go there. In KotOR they made the areas into planets. Pillars of Eternity was also built like that, and it shows.

This type of design is cancer, unless you have some serious creative direction to compensate.

Agreed 100%, I was so disappointed with BG2 after how great the first game was. That being said, KotOR is still good.

 

[PEACH]

One really has to be playing the coping, sneeding and retarded moron to attempt to move the goalposts to skirt over the most parroted lie (which is a subjective judgment in the first place) that Fallout 1 is a "serious game" and Fallout 2 is some kind of pop culture mashup. I wonder, how many people pretend they actually caught even 1/4th of them before logging on the internets and assuming other peoples finds as their own?

your argument assumes that pop culture references are the exclusive issue here and that a quantitative measuring of them shuts the book entirely on the conversation when it's been mentioned numerous times that it's the fundamental worldbuilding and tone that's the issue. no one moved the goalposts, your initial argument was erroneous at best by misconstruing the issues people have with FO2's tonal inconsistencies.

the fact that most people won't catch most of them says it all: they're equivalent to easter eggs that wink at the player. surely you can tell the difference between a leather jacket or bonus hth damage versus all the garbage going on that undermines the setting in san francisco alone.

genuinely can't tell if you're autistic or you think you're still on /v/

 

[luj1]

Most Fallout fans acknowledge that combat is the weakest part of Fallout

build variety also

 

[ItsChon]

blessed king of longing Where is your response faggot? Instead of writing faggot love letters on my profile you should be typing it up rn.

It's fine, I'll accept your concession retard.

 

[blessed king of longing]

your argument assumes that pop culture references are the exclusive issue here

My argument addresses the most parroted lie, and the goalpost shift then becomes "Muh subjective experience".

and that a quantitative measuring of them shuts the book entirely on the conversation

The premise is literally "Fallout 2 has too many pop culture references" when in fact Fallout 1 has a grand number for such a short game, and has goofy shit in it to address your goalpost shifted subject. It's quite autistic that you can't handle simple realities about a goddamn video game being pointed out and have to keep lashing out.

when it's been mentioned numerous times that it's the fundamental worldbuilding and tone that's the issue.

Again - why pretend you caught even 1/4 of them in the first place - and all you have anyway is a subjective judgment that doesn't wash.
So will we really pretend Fallout 1, which has massive hulking lizards that somehow ballooned in size 1000 times, inexplicable creatures like giant rats, giant scorpions, two headed cows, child sized mantis, Ghouls (some of them literally glowing) centaurs, floaters and retard Shreks - formerly humans - walking around after being deep fried in green hyper-HIV fluid, masterminded by a formerly human Goo-man with magic powers called The Master who is also worshiped by faggots in robes, somehow adds up to some very serious and not goofy fiction? Add to the fact that many of its influences were basically comedies, which shows in their "immersion breaking references" and "tone and worldbuilding" that you probably didn't notice in the first place, yet this double standard somehow only applies to Fallout 2.

no one moved the goalposts

Says who, you?

The "tone and worldbuilding" you refer to is subjective and you're relying on other peoples subjective interpretations on top of it.

It's a sad reality, but a lie repeated often enough becomes truth to dummies.

, your initial argument was erroneous at best by misconstruing the issues people have with FO2's tonal inconsistencies.

Again, says who - you?

The most parroted lie is cultural references. The goalpost was then shifted to be about something subjective, and Fallout 1's crimes on the subject completely ignored.

the fact that most people won't catch most of them says it all: they're equivalent to easter eggs that wink at the player.

This describes both games.

surely you can tell the difference between a leather jacket or bonus hth damage versus all the garbage going on that undermines the setting in san francisco alone.

Mere minimizing and applying double standards. Cherrypicking at its finest.

genuinely can't tell if you're autistic or you think you're still on /v/

First I'm "from" NMA, now I'm "from" 4chan - just face it, you failed to dismantle what I said and it peeves you, and FYI people can disagree with you without being some kind of "other".

blessed king of longing Where is your response faggot? Instead of writing faggot love letters on my profile you should be typing it up rn.

It's fine, I'll accept your concession retard.

I'm sorry son, I know your desperate for my attention but I don't want to be responsible for your suicide. You may recall that I didn't promise to respond, and even so you are not entitled to my time...

The fact that you timidly hid your entire post tells me you desperately don't want me to bully babbys first rpg any longer, and it was quite schizophrenic of you to constantly make logical mistakes. I'm sorry you wasted all that time but life is about realizing sunk cost. You will simply have to keep spamming negative stickers on all my posts, I can take it. I don't understand why you take such issue with me letting other people know you do this, however.

 

[ItsChon]

I'm sorry son, I know your desperate for my attention but I don't want to be responsible for your suicide. You may recall that I didn't promise to respond, and even so you are not entitled to my time...

The fact that you timidly hid your entire post tells me you desperately don't want me to bully babbys first rpg any longer, and it was quite schizophrenic of you to constantly make logical mistakes. I'm sorry you wasted all that time but life is about realizing sunk cost. You will simply have to keep spamming negative stickers on all my posts, I can take it. I don't understand why you take such issue with me letting other people know you do this, however.

Lmao. I "hid" my post, because it was the length of half the thread, keep coping though. The only reason I continue to rate your posts is so others will know that they're dealing with a retard, and won't have to suffer by reading any more of the shit you post.

The boomer bitch runs away, tail tucked in between his legs. Not surprised. I cuck faggots like you IRL, now it seems I've gone virtual. You can refer to me as bull now.

 

[RoBoBOBR]

2 cents: Fo2 unarmed combat is not "go for the eyes, end". You gotta break their legs so they don't run away after you blind them. Hitting groin/head is also beneficial for that playstyle, as it nets you knockdowns for easy finishes.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

Underrail combat is fallout combat without aimed shot or cool death animations. The rest of underrail is an empty, boring, soulless experience that manages to look worse than games made 20 years before. Fallout's armor system is bad, underrail's is worse. Underrail accomplishes "Build Variety" by having 100 skills and perks that have identical effects with different icons or names. Will I click burst then click on dudes? Or will I just click on dudes? Or maybe I'll click my sniper rifle, then click on the dude?

At least in fallout I can click on which part of the dude I want to shoot, and maybe get some cool feedback.

Honestly the biggest problem with underrail is the sterile, boring writing.
"Oh yeah that cyborg dude you know is 200 years old and killed tons of people with a weird chemical attack combined with telepathy"
"Hey cyborg dude, that other 200 year old dude said you're a 200 year old dude who killed everyone"
"Nah, that was my doppelganger"

That's it. Why even bother writing any of this? Why can't my character be like "Wait, doppelganger? This only raises further questions!?!?" My character is just a dumbfuck yes man who has the unique ability to move.

Yeah Fallout's writing is pretty juvenile. But it's a masterpiece compared to underrail.