Fallout 4 Pre-Announcement Bullshit Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[tuluse]

There is no way it will be a good Fallout game, so you can stop worrying.

 

[Infinitron]

Like many popamole RPGs, FO3 can be seen as a bad action game for people who are bad at action games, who tell themselves "it's okay that this sucks because it's actually an RPG!".

 

[Ovg]

Like many popamole RPGs, FO3 can be seen as a bad action game for people who are bad at action games, who tell themselves "it's okay that this sucks because it's actually an RPG!".

It's no call of duty either. Or medal of honor allied assault. Not even gonna compare it to doom or quake.

 

[Kirtai]

I'd imagine the cut content has more to do with deadlines than consoles. If current gen consoles can handle GTA V then they can handle the Fallout 3 engine.

According to this post by Sawyer the Strip and Freeside (at least) were split up because of memory problems.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

That's a pisser.
Does the latest engine that Bio use cause problems?
For when Obsidian does the next good FO game.

 

[Roguey]

Like many popamole RPGs, FO3 can be seen as a bad action game for people who are bad at action games, who tell themselves "it's okay that this sucks because it's actually an RPG!".

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/57754-josh-sawyer-at-gdc-europe-2011/page-2#entry1139703

I think people play RPGs because they enjoy RPG gameplay, not because they tried to play an FPS or an action game, failed or didn't like it, shrugged their shoulders, and decided to "settle" for RPGs.

People love exploring and getting a regular stream of rewards.

 

[Infinitron]

People love exploring and getting a regular stream of rewards.

Exploring? There are open world FPSes these days. Some of them even have pseudo-RPG elements.

Josh's sentence was said in a different context.

 

[Roguey]

People love exploring and getting a regular stream of rewards.

Exploring? There are open world FPSes these days. Some of them even have pseudo-RPG elements.

Josh's sentence was said in a different context.

They don't make operant conditioning chambers as well as Bethesda.

That thread is about making good RPGs that borrow mechanics from other genres.

 

[Infinitron]

That thread is about making good RPGs that borrow mechanics from other genres.

I don't think you understand. I'm not saying players don't enjoy FO3's "RPG elements", such as they are. I'm saying they're okay with its shitty action elements being shitty, and that that's a pretty lame state of affairs.

And I'm sure Josh would agree with that, considering how he tried to overhaul FO3's action elements in FO:NV. "Combat designed for people who like combat", remember?

 

[2house2fly]

That's a pisser.
Does the latest engine that Bio use cause problems?
For when Obsidian does the next good FO game.

PS4 and next Xbox(presumably) will have 8GB of RAM as opposed to the 360's 512MB. Hopefully enough for a wide open Strip/Freeside equivalent, bustling with people.

I'd imagine the cut content has more to do with deadlines than consoles. If current gen consoles can handle GTA V then they can handle the Fallout 3 engine.

I've wondered about this; GTA, Prototype and other such games are crammed with NPCs, while even the parts of a Bethesda game that are supposed to be cramped and crowded(eg Rivet City, Imperial City in Oblivion) are barren wastelands. The graphics aren't as good as other open-world games either, so where is all that memory going? Is it that radiant AI stuff, where characters have sleep cycles and hunt their own food and shit instead of doing all I need them to do, which is walk around aimlessly and fight back/run away if I attack them? All the bent tin cans and husks of corn lying around all over the place? I'll be honest, I'd prefer more NPCs and better textures to Rube Goldberg traps made of 75 boxes of detergent.

 

[Crevice tab]

I don't think you understand. I'm not saying players don't enjoy FO3's "RPG elements", such as they are. I'm saying they're okay with its shitty action elements being shitty, and that that's a pretty lame state of affairs.

And I'm sure Josh would agree with that, considering how he tried to overhaul FO3's action elements in FO:NV. "Combat designed for people who like combat", remember?

I'd be okay with shitty action elements if the RPG part was good enough. The problem is that FO3's RPG elements are even shittier than the combat bit.

 

[Roguey]

I'd imagine the cut content has more to do with deadlines than consoles. If current gen consoles can handle GTA V then they can handle the Fallout 3 engine.

I've wondered about this; GTA, Prototype and other such games are crammed with NPCs, while even the parts of a Bethesda game that are supposed to be cramped and crowded(eg Rivet City, Imperial City in Oblivion) are barren wastelands. The graphics aren't as good as other open-world games either, so where is all that memory going? Is it that radiant AI stuff, where characters have sleep cycles and hunt their own food and shit instead of doing all I need them to do, which is walk around aimlessly and fight back/run away if I attack them? All the bent tin cans and husks of corn lying around all over the place? I'll be honest, I'd prefer more NPCs and better textures to Rube Goldberg traps made of 75 boxes of detergent.

http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/263516402671953780

Some areas will reset contents after three (game) days, but a lot of stuff lingers. Additionally, we also have to deal with "persistent references". These are objects that are immediately loaded with the game because we need to be able to reference them anywhere/everywhere in the world -- even if the player is nowhere near the object. Characters are the most common example. All of the companions need to be able to move around the world even when they are not in your current area, so they are all persistent references.

All object data (excluding art assets like .nifs and audio assets [VO]) for persistent references is loaded at all times, so that's more-or-less a permanent chunk of resident memory. The number of persistent references invariably goes up with each DLC, so as the number of DLCs increases, the system has less and less memory available. Of course, the player's save game file only gets bigger and bigger, since he or she is going through more or more areas manipulating an increasingly large number of objects.

This is why some of our later patches actually removed content from the core game (e.g. Primm). Even though we had balanced the memory footprint for the core game, DLC content was pushing down the available resources.

http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/263583442560621229

If we had generated .esms per-platform, that would have been a crazy nightmare for a lot of reasons. A slightly less risky approach could have been to script the removal of assets using the IsPC/IsXbox/IsPS3 functions, but that also introduces its own host of potential problems, especially if objects are attempting to reference something as the script removes it.

We ran into a small but non-trivial number of crashes in F:NV involving persistent references attempting to interact with an object as the player transitions out of his or her current area. E.g. Chief Hanlon attempts to sit in a chair. The player leaves the area, the chair Hanlon wants to sit in is unloaded, and the game crashes.

 

[abnaxus]

In 2008, the Codex consensus was that Fallout 3 was good for what it was.

 

[baturinsky]

Roguey
So, shoddy coding.

 

[dextermorgan]

Roguey
So, shitty engine.

Yes.

 

[argan]

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/856489-fan-interviews/

Just found this little gem in here:

If you look at Fallout 1, our dialogue trees are larger and more in-depth. I'm incredibly proud of the job our designers are doing with them, and they know they have a lot to live up to.

 

[Akratus]

You just go from answer to answer and every single thing is just. . .

 

[2house2fly]

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/856489-fan-interviews/

Just found this little gem in here:

If you look at Fallout 1, our dialogue trees are larger and more in-depth. I'm incredibly proud of the job our designers are doing with them, and they know they have a lot to live up to.

For a second I thought that was a recent post about Fallout 4, and some of the answers sounded pretty cool. "Oh," I thought, "they're looking to make Melee/Unarmed actually viable in the next game, I guess they did learn from New Vegas!" Then I checked the date. Still a bunch of stuff that sounds better than Fallout 3 turned out to be(apparently the companions are deep characters and not just pack mules). This is a useful post to keep around for when Bethesda do start talking about Fallout 4 and making it sound really good.

 

[dextermorgan]

This is a useful post to keep around for when Bethesda do start talking about Fallout 4 and making it sound really good.

It's not like outright lies such as this



swayed many people. Sheeple gonna sheeple.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Just a quick reminder of who you people are talking to.

Great moments, but they're not going to make a spectator nudge you aside and take over the controller.

 

[DeepOcean]

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/856489-fan-interviews/

Just found this little gem in here:

If you look at Fallout 1, our dialogue trees are larger and more in-depth. I'm incredibly proud of the job our designers are doing with them, and they know they have a lot to live up to.

For a second I thought that was a recent post about Fallout 4, and some of the answers sounded pretty cool. "Oh," I thought, "they're looking to make Melee/Unarmed actually viable in the next game, I guess they did learn from New Vegas!" Then I checked the date. Still a bunch of stuff that sounds better than Fallout 3 turned out to be(apparently the companions are deep characters and not just pack mules). This is a useful post to keep around for when Bethesda do start talking about Fallout 4 and making it sound really good.

"There are 150 handcrafted dungeons in Skyrim, there are 200 endings to Fallout 3." Todd is very Molyneux while doing his PR interviews. I wouldn't take anything he says seriously.

 

[DeepOcean]

Stuff...

Listing all that is pretty irrelevant, honestly. I agree with every flaw you pointed out for the most part, but that isn't the point. The point is a game can have all those flaws but still offer something enjoyable or worth spending time on. Obviously you played FO3 for quite a while, since you beat the story and have extensive knowledge of the game. No one puts a couple dozen hours into something they literally find to be absolute worthless shit.

And that's the point. That's the whole point of what some of us are saying. Some things are okay, neither especially good nor especially bad. Middling. Average. Passable. Whatever word you want to use.

Man, you must have a zen mindset because only that can explain how much patience you have with that shit. I don't hated Fallout 3 for being an action RPG (hate the game for being an action RPG is too edgy for me) or even had raped Fallout lore (while this was shameful from Bethesda) but I hated it because the game thought I was a retarded and treated me like one in the story and gameplay departments. Yeah, not all AAA games are pure shit but use Fallout 3 as example of that rule is to be too much tolerant, some games must be in the shit category and Fallout 3 rightfully deserve it's place there.

 

[DalekFlay]

Man, you must have a zen mindset because only that can explain how much patience you have with that shit.

My personal abilities aside, it's people who play a game for 30 hours and then tell me they enjoyed none of it that really make my teeth grind. If you spend 30+ hours playing a game you think is shit then you're a fucking moron, or exaggerating the hate to look like a true Codex Bro Officer.

Not talking about you, but the people above I was debating with.

 

[tuluse]

I've watched over 200 hours of bad, terrible movies in my life. I thought they were shit, but I still enjoyed the experience.

Also, I read 4 Robert Jordan books before realizing what a fraud he was. Which might make me a moron, but who's the bigger moron the person who eventually realizes something is shit or the person who never does?

 

[Ninjerk]

I've watched over 200 hours of bad, terrible movies in my life. I thought they were shit, but I still enjoyed the experience.

Also, I read 4 Robert Jordan books before realizing what a fraud he was. Which might make me a moron, but who's the bigger moron the person who eventually realizes something is shit or the person who never does?

Movies are quick consumptions, though. I think it's forgivable in that case.

Also, of what use is separating levels moron? What matters is that you know now, and you're safe (generally speaking, I don't know anything about Robert Jordan).