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Game News Fallout: New Vegas pulls in $300 Million

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No way, this game is bad because that other poster who thinks it is bad said it was bad. What other clues do you need? Certainly not the ones provided by people who think it's good - who would listen to them, they are obviously fanboys. And it's also shit because it doesn't have a very good combat, unlike every other RPG that Codex likes.
 

Silellak

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So does your character see through buildings and concrete walls because that isn't reflected in the game?
Why the fuck do I need to know that the whole bunch of enemies is behind that wall? What about punishing the player for being unprepared not telling him "prepare yourself - enemies are there"
By the way, this is why people tell you to play games before complaining. While you can see "through" walls as long as they're in the same area, you can't see inside buildings, meaning you can easily be ambushed/caught unaware by whatever's inside.

Enemies aren't the only things that you can do to fuck over unprepared players, either. Traps - which don't appear on the radar - can be way more dangerous than enemies. Also, radioactive areas can easily take down players who don't bring enough anti-radiation supplies, if the players allow themselves to get too deep - think The Glow.
 

Silellak

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Alright, so you wanted some examples of how New Vegas is different than FO3, and why this makes it a better - and even a good - game. This is going to be a bit long-winded, so feel free to tl;dr and move on. There will be also be minor-to-not-quite-major spoilers, mostly on a few specific quests and some general setting things. Nothing about the end of the main quest, because I've personally not yet finished it.

To start with, I judge and define sandbox RPGs like New Vegas by their setting, atmosphere, and quest design. Obviously the first two are largely tied together, so I'll address them as a single subject. I won't be addressing the "improved writing", because I'm admittedly not particularly good at judging one piece of prose vs. another. I will say there haven't been any lines that made me facepalm ("Steel be with you!", "I'm looking for a middle-aged man"), but there have been a few that came across as particularly amusing or witty. However, I largely consider the vastly improved setting and atmopshere to be a by-product of a generally more talented writing team.

So what's good about New Vegas' setting and atmosphere? Obviously they're tied closely together - the setting feeds the atmosphere, and vice versa.

Let's start with the NCR - perhaps the "main" faction in the game, around which a lot of the politics of the others circulate. Any notion that the NCR are the clear-cut "good guys" of the story is put to rest fairly early on, once you learn the Powder Gangers - the first criminal group you're likely to come across - only exist because the NCR fucked up and allowed a major prison break to occur, even losing that prison to the group in the process. The more you explore the world, the more it becomes clear that the NCR is anything but the stabilizing force it wants to be.

Caravans from the west are being blocked at the NCR border because the NCR simply can't control the roads - evidenced by the random raider groups along the road, and the Deathclaws northeast of Goodsprings (the starting city) that help discourage traffic in that direction. This is only further emphasized when you reach Nipton - a city quite deep into NCR territory - that's been sacked by the Legion. It's clear from almost the onset that those in the NCR might have good intentions, but they simply don't have the manpower to back that up. Further investigation reveals that this is largely because the "Hoover Dam campaign" is growing less and less popular back in California, so it's harder and harder for new troops and supplies to show up on the front lines. Morale is shit, and for good reason.

It's all rather tragic, because it's implied the Legion has numbers far greater than they've shown, and that if the NCR loses at Hoover Dam, all of California would probably be next. Finally, you eventually learn that the major victory the NCR had over the Legion a few years back happened not because the NCR had the numbers, morale, and firepower, but rather because they tricked the Legion commander at the time into doing something stupid - something they certainly won't fall for when the Legion comes back.

There's things you learn about the NCR here and there - the "Bitter Springs" incident, for instance, which is gradually revealed and ties into backstory of one of the companions as well as one of the other major factions. In fact, if and when you find Bitter Springs, it's become nothing more than a shoddy NCR refugee camp - going so far as to hang its flag upside down to indicate "distress" - and you can even see the old graffiti from the previous faction half-assedly covered by NCR signs and propaganda. One of the quests there is to deal with a member of the wronged faction who is still taking his revenge on the NCR, even years later.

The Legion, of course, are the "silly Roman cosplaying slavers" - whether you like them may depend largely on if you buy the reason they exist, which I personally did. They largely serve as the game's major threat, but like all factions, they have their own motivations and backstory. One of the companions has a major (bad) history with them, and just having him in your party makes them all hostile. He warns you when you get near certain Legion strongholds that he plans to go in shooting, leading to a great exchange:

Companion: "If we go in there, I'm going to kill every Legion member I see. Is that a problem?"
Player: "That's not a problem, that's a solution."

Then there's the smaller side stuff - the skyway-scoffed Black Mountain/Tabitha thread ties into the greater Super Mutant side story. Black Mountain was a Super Mutant community run by Marcus, who was run off by Tabitha. He founds another community - Jacobstown - in an old ski lodge - who have their own problems dealing with the gradually-more-insane Nightkin. Marcus has promised them a cure, but so far hasn't been able to deliver, and they are getting restless. If they leave, it means groups of pissed-off Nightkin will be roaming the Mojave.

The Brotherhood of Steel is obviously aroud - the FO1/FO2 Brotherhood, thankfully - but they've been driven into isolation after a devestating defeat by the NCR over Helios One. It might be surprising that the Brotherhood could lose to anyone, but the NCR kept pouring man after man into the battle, and the BoS gradually ran out of supplies and had to make a run for their bunker. Their leader has been keeping them in lockdown, fearing that the NCR has only grown stronger since the Brotherhood was defeated - but throughout the course of their main questline, he learns what the player already knew - the NCR's "hold" on the Mojave is tenuous, at best. Of course, there's a side thread where the player can work with a faction who is opposed to the Brotherhood's current "lockdown", and you can even have the leader replaced - which leader is in charge after the quest line directly impacts what the next quest is (the other option isn't available for the rest of the game). One of those quests involves wiping out a minor faction - a faction that also has a quest for you, which you may never get, if you kill them. That faction's quest can't even be completed without sacraficing one of your possible companions. At that point, you either have to give her up, or killing them all.

The Followers of the Apocalypse have been following the NCR's expansion, more or less trying to clean up the mess the NCR leaves behind it. They don't see eye to eye with the NCR or the Brotherhood - the second becoming all the more clear during one of the possible endings for one of the companion's quests. They aren't particularly interesting as a faction, but their interactions with NCR leads to choices about the good of the NCR vs. the good of everyone but the NCR.

Finally, there's the wild card - the titular New Vegas itself. Mr. House has his own mysterious agenda (which I honestly haven't uncovered yet), and, of course, the Families under his "command" aren't entirely thrilled being the underdogs. Vegas is a problem for the NCR, because it's not under their control, yet it's a constant drain on their resources. To control it would be a major win for the politicians back home, but right now, it's little more than a necessary evil - the NCR simply can't afford to take on Mr. House with the Legion threatening them on the other side of the Colorado. Finally, the recent "revival" of Vegas by Mr. House has forced the tribal chaos of the old Vegas into the surrounding areas - most notably in Freeside, but also in Westside, North Vegas, and Red Canyon.

There's more I haven't touched on, but this post is long enough as it is, so there you go: the setting and atmosphere of New Vegas, which (I hope) easily shows how these areas are vastly superior to Fallout 3's disconnected "theme park" areas and factions. I've also touched briefly on the interconnected quests with multiple solutions, but if people want another rambling post, I can go into more detail regarding a specific questline.
 

Mastermind

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Silellak said:
Define "terrible", I guess? It's the same "enemy AI" you see in most action RPGs, so yes I guess by your standards it's "terrible".

How about "stops in the middle of a firefight and sits there letting me shoot it to death" terrible? I like NV but it has the dumbest, most pathetic AI I've ever seen in any game, action RPG or otherwise.
 

Silellak

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Mastermind said:
Silellak said:
Define "terrible", I guess? It's the same "enemy AI" you see in most action RPGs, so yes I guess by your standards it's "terrible".

How about "stops in the middle of a firefight and sits there letting me shoot it to death" terrible? I like NV but it has the dumbest, most pathetic AI I've ever seen in any game, action RPG or otherwise.
Never seen that happen. Also, hyperbolic statement is hyperbolic.
 

Lockkaliber

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Silellak said:
Alright, so you wanted some examples of how New Vegas is different than FO3, and why this makes it a better - and even a good - game. This is going to be a bit long-winded, so feel free to tl;dr and move on. There will be also be minor-to-not-quite-major spoilers, mostly on a few specific quests and some general setting things. Nothing about the end of the main quest, because I've personally not yet finished it.

To start with, I judge and define sandbox RPGs like New Vegas by their setting, atmosphere, and quest design. Obviously the first two are largely tied together, so I'll address them as a single subject. I won't be addressing the "improved writing", because I'm admittedly not particularly good at judging one piece of prose vs. another. I will say there haven't been any lines that made me facepalm ("Steel be with you!", "I'm looking for a middle-aged man"), but there have been a few that came across as particularly amusing or witty. However, I largely consider the vastly improved setting and atmopshere to be a by-product of a generally more talented writing team.

So what's good about New Vegas' setting and atmosphere? Obviously they're tied closely together - the setting feeds the atmosphere, and vice versa.

Let's start with the NCR - perhaps the "main" faction in the game, around which a lot of the politics of the others circulate. Any notion that the NCR are the clear-cut "good guys" of the story is put to rest fairly early on, once you learn the Powder Gangers - the first criminal group you're likely to come across - only exist because the NCR fucked up and allowed a major prison break to occur, even losing that prison to the group in the process. The more you explore the world, the more it becomes clear that the NCR is anything but the stabilizing force it wants to be.

Caravans from the west are being blocked at the NCR border because the NCR simply can't control the roads - evidenced by the random raider groups along the road, and the Deathclaws northeast of Goodsprings (the starting city) that help discourage traffic in that direction. This is only further emphasized when you reach Nipton - a city quite deep into NCR territory - that's been sacked by the Legion. It's clear from almost the onset that those in the NCR might have good intentions, but they simply don't have the manpower to back that up. Further investigation reveals that this is largely because the "Hoover Dam campaign" is growing less and less popular back in California, so it's harder and harder for new troops and supplies to show up on the front lines. Morale is shit, and for good reason.

It's all rather tragic, because it's implied the Legion has numbers far greater than they've shown, and that if the NCR loses at Hoover Dam, all of California would probably be next. Finally, you eventually learn that the major victory the NCR had over the Legion a few years back happened not because the NCR had the numbers, morale, and firepower, but rather because they tricked the Legion commander at the time into doing something stupid - something they certainly won't fall for when the Legion comes back.

There's things you learn about the NCR here and there - the "Bitter Springs" incident, for instance, which is gradually revealed and ties into backstory of one of the companions as well as one of the other major factions. In fact, if and when you find Bitter Springs, it's become nothing more than a shoddy NCR refugee camp - going so far as to hang its flag upside down to indicate "distress" - and you can even see the old graffiti from the previous faction half-assedly covered by NCR signs and propaganda. One of the quests there is to deal with a member of the wronged faction who is still taking his revenge on the NCR, even years later.

The Legion, of course, are the "silly Roman cosplaying slavers" - whether you like them may depend largely on if you buy the reason they exist, which I personally did. They largely serve as the game's major threat, but like all factions, they have their own motivations and backstory. One of the companions has a major (bad) history with them, and just having him in your party makes them all hostile. He warns you when you get near certain Legion strongholds that he plans to go in shooting, leading to a great exchange:

Companion: "If we go in there, I'm going to kill every Legion member I see. Is that a problem?"
Player: "That's not a problem, that's a solution."

Then there's the smaller side stuff - the skyway-scoffed Black Mountain/Tabitha thread ties into the greater Super Mutant side story. Black Mountain was a Super Mutant community run by Marcus, who was run off by Tabitha. He founds another community - Jacobstown - in an old ski lodge - who have their own problems dealing with the gradually-more-insane Nightkin. Marcus has promised them a cure, but so far hasn't been able to deliver, and they are getting restless. If they leave, it means groups of pissed-off Nightkin will be roaming the Mojave.

The Brotherhood of Steel is obviously aroud - the FO1/FO2 Brotherhood, thankfully - but they've been driven into isolation after a devestating defeat by the NCR over Helios One. It might be surprising that the Brotherhood could lose to anyone, but the NCR kept pouring man after man into the battle, and the BoS gradually ran out of supplies and had to make a run for their bunker. Their leader has been keeping them in lockdown, fearing that the NCR has only grown stronger since the Brotherhood was defeated - but throughout the course of their main questline, he learns what the player already knew - the NCR's "hold" on the Mojave is tenuous, at best. Of course, there's a side thread where the player can work with a faction who is opposed to the Brotherhood's current "lockdown", and you can even have the leader replaced - which leader is in charge after the quest line directly impacts what the next quest is (the other option isn't available for the rest of the game). One of those quests involves wiping out a minor faction - a faction that also has a quest for you, which you may never get, if you kill them. That faction's quest can't even be completed without sacraficing one of your possible companions. At that point, you either have to give her up, or killing them all.

The Followers of the Apocalypse have been following the NCR's expansion, more or less trying to clean up the mess the NCR leaves behind it. They don't see eye to eye with the NCR or the Brotherhood - the second becoming all the more clear during one of the possible endings for one of the companion's quests. They aren't particularly interesting as a faction, but their interactions with NCR leads to choices about the good of the NCR vs. the good of everyone but the NCR.

Finally, there's the wild card - the titular New Vegas itself. Mr. House has his own mysterious agenda (which I honestly haven't uncovered yet), and, of course, the Families under his "command" aren't entirely thrilled being the underdogs. Vegas is a problem for the NCR, because it's not under their control, yet it's a constant drain on their resources. To control it would be a major win for the politicians back home, but right now, it's little more than a necessary evil - the NCR simply can't afford to take on Mr. House with the Legion threatening them on the other side of the Colorado. Finally, the recent "revival" of Vegas by Mr. House has forced the tribal chaos of the old Vegas into the surrounding areas - most notably in Freeside, but also in Westside, North Vegas, and Red Canyon.

There's more I haven't touched on, but this post is long enough as it is, so there you go: the setting and atmosphere of New Vegas, which (I hope) easily shows how these areas are vastly superior to Fallout 3's disconnected "theme park" areas and factions. I've also touched briefly on the interconnected quests with multiple solutions, but if people want another rambling post, I can go into more detail regarding a specific questline.

:salute:
 
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Silellak said:
Never seen that happen.

It does happen, after you do some serious damage to them they sometimes run away and duck in plain sight as if they were behind a cover (I guess that's what was intended "on paper" but didn't work out, thanks to wonders of Radiant AI), giving you enough time to shoot them before they get up and come shooting again. Same thing happened in Fallout 3, and maybe Oblivion, I don't quite remember.
 

Mastermind

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I've never seen it happen in Fallout 3. Oblivion sometimes had weak enemies run away, but it was very rare.

Another retarded AI issue I had in NV (and to a much lesser extent, fallout 3) was enemies not coming after me around corners, swinging in and out of cover instead until I would show myself. Sometimes they would lose track of the fact that I was just a few feet away in another room altogether. Annoying as hell since one of the more fun things to do in fallout 3 was to set up land mines and lure morons into them.
 

Silellak

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Oh, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that I'd never seen it, and that 'WORST AI EVAR' seems a bit extreme.
 

Mastermind

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Silellak said:
Oh, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that I'd never seen it, and that 'WORST AI EVAR' seems a bit extreme.

It's not just because of that, though it plays a good part in it. The AI in general is very poorly scripted.
 
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Mastermind said:
Silellak said:
Oh, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that I'd never seen it, and that 'WORST AI EVAR' seems a bit extreme.

It's not just because of that, though it plays a good part in it. The AI in general is very poorly scripted.

It has one of the worst pathfindings ever, that's for sure. It sometimes turns around and runs in the opposite direction when it's only couple of feet left to reach you.
 

Silellak

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Multidirectional said:
Mastermind said:
Silellak said:
Oh, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that I'd never seen it, and that 'WORST AI EVAR' seems a bit extreme.

It's not just because of that, though it plays a good part in it. The AI in general is very poorly scripted.

It has one of the worst pathfindings ever, that's for sure.
I thought "your companions automatically merge with the scenery" was a feature. :smug:

Multidirectional said:
It sometimes turns around and runs in the opposite direction when it's only couple of feet left to reach you.
This seems to be a side-effect of fast traveling, from what I've seen. If you fast travel from a fairly-close-by location, sometimes your companions will try to run to where you were, rather than where you are.
 
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Silellak said:
Multidirectional said:
It sometimes turns around and runs in the opposite direction when it's only couple of feet left to reach you.
This seems to be a side-effect of fast traveling, from what I've seen. If you fast travel from a fairly-close-by location, sometimes your companions will try to run to where you were, rather than where you are.

Sometimes, yeah, but not always. It can happen when you haven't used fast travel in quite a while. I'd be shooting at something as it rushes in my direction, then I take a few steps to the side and it suddenly turns around and runs backwards. I don't mean to complain much though, I made peace with this type of shit long since Oblivion. I never expected AI in New Vegas to be any different, nor did I think I'd enjoy it for combat.
 

Silellak

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Multidirectional said:
Silellak said:
Multidirectional said:
It sometimes turns around and runs in the opposite direction when it's only couple of feet left to reach you.
This seems to be a side-effect of fast traveling, from what I've seen. If you fast travel from a fairly-close-by location, sometimes your companions will try to run to where you were, rather than where you are.

Sometimes, yeah, but not always. It can happen when you haven't used fast travel in quite a while. I'd be shooting at something as it rushes in my direction, then I take a few steps to the side and it suddenly turns around and runs backwards. I don't mean to complain much though, I made peace with this type of shit long since Oblivion. I never expected AI in New Vegas to be any different, nor did I think I'd enjoy it for combat.
I understand; I enjoy New Vegas in spite of its..."quirks". For instance, last night I had to use console commands to give Arcade Gannon back his "unique companion Plasma Defender" because the Casino Weapon Return Script gave it to ED-E instead of him. I didn't even notice until he tried to go fisticuffs vs. some golden geckos.

Thus far all the bugs I've run into can be fixed with either a reload or a console command, but I know I'd be way more frustrated if I were playing the console version and didn't have the option of using console commands to fix certain bugs.
 

Micmu

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"It has one of the worst pathfindings ever, that's for sure."

It IS the Morrowing engine, don't forget that. ;)
This particularly annoying flaw with followers you are describing is apparently still there since the engine's first iteration.
 
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micmu said:
It IS the Morrowing engine, don't forget that. ;)
That particularly annoying flaw you are describing is apparently still there since the engine's first iteration.

It probably is there since Morrowind, I wasn't sure, it's been a long time. It did seem to me that super awesome invention that goes by the name of "Radiant AI" made it even worse.

Silellak said:
Thus far all the bugs I've run into can be fixed with either a reload or a console command, but I know I'd be way more frustrated if I were playing the console version and didn't have the option of using console commands to fix certain bugs.

Well not playing the console version was definitely a smart move on your part. Not only for lack of console commands, but also cause of all the mods that will eventually be made for PC version. I couldn't understand how could anyone play games based on this Gamebryo iteration on console ever since Morrowind. I couldn't even play that one vanilla and that's supposed to be the last decent Bethesda game.
 

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Silellak said:
So does your character see through buildings and concrete walls because that isn't reflected in the game?
Why the fuck do I need to know that the whole bunch of enemies is behind that wall? What about punishing the player for being unprepared not telling him "prepare yourself - enemies are there"
By the way, this is why people tell you to play games before complaining. While you can see "through" walls as long as they're in the same area, you can't see inside buildings, meaning you can easily be ambushed/caught unaware by whatever's inside.

Enemies aren't the only things that you can do to fuck over unprepared players, either. Traps - which don't appear on the radar - can be way more dangerous than enemies. Also, radioactive areas can easily take down players who don't bring enough anti-radiation supplies, if the players allow themselves to get too deep - think The Glow.
Not that I really care, but you cannot "see into buildings" because Bethsidian cannot into seemless world environs. So an engine limitation and you try to sell it as an intentional gameplay mechanic.
And that stuff like traps and dangerous areas are not somehow highlighted if your perception is high is actually an argument against what you said before...

And put tl;dr: summaries at the end of your posts, ffs.
 

shihonage

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Silellak said:
Standing on the corners, soliciting non-existent customers.
Not true.

While Fallout's isometric perspective and art style provided a certain feeling of abstraction when it comes to "densely" populated areas and combat, FO3 engine really doesn't carry this through.

The engine has limitations, which is why there's never enough people in a settlement to make it believable. I'm all for Star Trek's abstraction of a planet into two movie sets, but F3/NV never quite reaches that, either.

I enter a settlement, I get greeted by some enthusiastic robot/NPC, who tells me how great their settlement is, and the entire place is fucking barren and lifeless. Like that town with a stupid name where I ended up reprogramming the retarded robot into a retarded Sheriff, upsetting some retard in the process.

Then I stumbled upon a town which sold dinosaur toys because it had a giant dinosaur. A lifeless place. Nobody buys toys in the wasteland. None of this made any sense.
One of the few actual "examples" in his post, but still wrong. The characters gives an explanation as to why he sells the toys and even mentions that no one fucking buys them.

You're missing the point. Why would anyone sell toys in that world, if nobody buys them? That makes no sense. "Explaining" it is just a shitty attempt to make something that doesn't work, work.

I stumbled upon "New Vegas Medical", where the doctor was overly friendly and chirped along like she was in Kaiser Permanente, not in desolate wasteland.
She didn't come across as "overly friendly" - but so what if she did? All characters have to be depressed and angsty about the 200-years-old-now apocalypse in order for a setting to be believable? Buh?

As someone who grew up in one of the poorer areas of former USSR, I have a big problem with the attitude of the people living in such conditions.

They all behave like they were Players, just like you, sitting in the luxury of their home, cooking a 7-11 burger in the microwave, who just decided to take this exciting and brief vacation into the unknown. In a moment, they'll return to paradise, but meanwhile, let's roleplay and have funnn!!

You can hear notes of joy in their voice. I can't even hear such notes in the programmers at my fucking workplace, let alone a post-nuclear wasteland.

Medical resources in such a grim-looking, ruined world are bound to be scarce. The hospital should be OVERFLOWING with patients. It should be a mess.

Nobody's going to be chirping or be modern-American-friendly in a clinic (or anywhere else). I expect people to be worn down, not giving a fuck about who you are until you gain their trust, and even then - few, if any, should ever be this friendly with you.

Then I found Crimson Caravan, but when they started yammering their tardspeak at me, I couldn't take it anymore.
Wow, that's a pretty in-depth criticism ya got thar.

Well, it's true and sums it up well. I'm sure when someone does a complete LP, the NPCs propensity to rant about useless shit to whoever they meet like they're in an episode of Desperate Housewves will be well-documented.

Oh, and as a bonus - that "Nightkin basement" example? There's a way to do that without killing a single Nightkin:

You must now clear the basement of the Nightkin. However, for a greater challenge, it is not necessary to kill them if you perform two optional sub-quests for the Nightkin leader Davison and the ghoul Harland.

WARNING: if you kill any Nightkin BEFORE or AFTER meeting Davison, he will attack you. You will need 2-3 StealthBoys and/or a high Sneak skill to complete these optional objectives. One or two can be found on the already deceased Nightkins.

There's just one problem. The moment I entered the basement, I got attacked by a "Nightkin". I am sure you can skew your build enough to SNEAK around that particular quest, but WHY? I didn't want a stealth build, and this quest is so retarded, it's certainly not worth building your entire character for it.
 

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"There's just one problem. The moment I entered the basement, I got attacked by a "Nightkin". I am sure you can skew your build enough to SNEAK around that particular quest, but WHY? I didn't want a stealth build, and this quest is so retarded, it's certainly not worth building your entire character for it."

I killed one or two Nightkin and he still talked to me. You don't have to make a stealth char... there is another option. You go right to the leader, kill the ghoul, get the info, deliver and no stealth is needed.
 

shihonage

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Havoc said:
I killed one or two Nightkin and he still talked to me. You don't have to make a stealth char... there is another option. You go right to the leader, kill the ghoul, get the info, deliver and no stealth is needed.

Sounds like that's just a straightforward way of completing the quest. The problem is, I don't believe in the ghoul cult, and I don't believe in nightkin. That entire area was ass, and I couldn't care less about being the negotiator between someone and their basement.
 

Silellak

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shihonage said:
I enter a settlement, I get greeted by some enthusiastic robot/NPC, who tells me how great their settlement is, and the entire place is fucking barren and lifeless. Like that town with a stupid name where I ended up reprogramming the retarded robot into a retarded Sheriff, upsetting some retard in the process.
It never occurred to you that the juxtaposition of the character attitudes vs. the reality of the towns they live in was intended? Other characters flat-out tell you that these places are shitholes. Hell, one of the "enthusiastic greeter NPCs" is insane and
sells someone into slavery because she kept badmouthing the town.
You're missing the point. Why would anyone sell toys in that world, if nobody buys them? That makes no sense. It is just a shitty attempt to make something that doesn't work, work.
You're missing the point. How is it a "shitty attempt to make something that doesn't work, work"? The shopkeeper in question set up shop in a place that had a bunch of shitty pre-war souvenirs and figured he may as well try selling them because what else was he going to do with them? It's not like they are the only items he sells, nor is this somehow a defining trait of the NPC - or the town. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

As someone who grew up in one of the poorer areas of former USSR, I have a big problem with the attitude of the people living in such conditions.

They all behave like they were Players, just like you, sitting in the luxury of their home, cooking a 7-11 burger in the microwave, who just decided to take this exciting and brief vacation into the unknown. In a moment, they'll return to paradise, but meanwhile, let's roleplay and have funnn!!

You can hear notes of joy in their voice. I can't even hear such notes in the programmers at my fucking workplace, let alone a post-nuclear wasteland.

Medical resources in such a grim-looking, ruined world are bound to be scarce. The hospital should be OVERFLOWING with patients. It should be a mess.

Nobody's going to be chirping or be modern-American-friendly in a clinic (or anywhere else). I expect people to be worn down, not giving a fuck about who you are until you gain their trust, and even then - few, if any, should ever be this friendly with you.
So, the game sucks because it doesn't portray post-apocalyptic life the way you wish it was portrayed.

Well, it's true and sums it up well. I'm sure when someone does a complete LP, the NPCs propensity to rant about useless shit to whoever they meet like they're in an episode of Desperate Housewves will be well-documented.
My point was that your "issue" was incredibly vague, yet skyway pointed to your post as the gold-standard for New Vegas criticism. It's a double-standard.

There's just one problem. The moment I entered the basement, I got attacked by a "Nightkin". I am sure you can skew your build enough to SNEAK around that particular quest, but WHY? I didn't want a stealth build, and this quest is so retarded, it's certainly not worth building your entire character for it.
You aren't sneaking around the quest. You're sneaking as part of the quest if, for instance, you have a stealth-oriented build and aren't string enough to take on the Nightkin.
 
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shihonage said:
Havoc said:
I killed one or two Nightkin and he still talked to me. You don't have to make a stealth char... there is another option. You go right to the leader, kill the ghoul, get the info, deliver and no stealth is needed.

Sounds like that's just a straightforward way of completing the quest.

So? What's wrong with that?
 

Silellak

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Shannow said:
And put tl;dr: summaries at the end of your posts, ffs.
Whiny bitch is whiny. A tl;dr summary would be meaningless because the entire point of the post was to explain, in detail, why I think the New Vegas setting, atmosphere and (to a much lesser extent) quest design is much greater than FO3.
 

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