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X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

Discussion in 'Tactical Gaming' started by Peter, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    Well only difference now is that on lower difficulty you will have a bit more time until game becomes impossible to finish.

    I have also been thinking about going back to LWR but after playing PP it is hard to go back to a game that does not have inventory, rigid two action system and other limitations of Xcom1 engine.
     
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  2. mastroego Arcane

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    Possibly.
    But it might be that XCOM's own progress will be enough to win this time (ok, I know!)

    I will try for once the halved-time campaign and see how it goes.
    I will state again, this mod adds too many good things to go back.
    If ONLY I could identify a combination of Difficulty + Settings that'll make it winnable....
     
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  3. Darth Canoli Arcane

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    As a general rule, you're right but as far as the X-COM franchise go, the end-game is always a cakewalk so increasing the difficulty further over time might not be such a terrible idea...
     
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  4. Serus Arcane

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    Darth, do you even know about what mod they are speaking? Seriously, WTF!? Long War Rebalance ! One of the main selling point of that (sub)mod is that difficulty curve is reversed, start being easier, end harder.
     
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  5. Darth Canoli Arcane

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    I admit i have no idea, ideally, the difficulty early on should be the same as in the original UFO and from mid-game, you start to increase the difficulty exponentially but it has to be done in a way a fast run would be impacted, a run with average speed becoming way harder late game and a slow paced run nearly impossible.
     
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  6. mastroego Arcane

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    A brief (?) report on my new run with Rebalance.

    Well a LOT of things changed since version 1.27.
    Now I'm playing 1.35..... and I'm already behind since 1.36 requires a new campaign.
    Facepalm.

    Anyway.
    It's impossible to enumerate all the improvements.
    The (additional) work they did on the UI is fantastic.
    There are also tons of little refinements like the new mechanics for In The Zone. It was this mod, I believe, that introduced the requirement for a steadied weapon to activate In The Zone, which made it more realistic but way less powerful.
    Now, if you fire with a NON steadied weapon, you get at least an automatic reload, which, in the economy of the turns, is not insignificant by any means.

    There are really tons of little adjustments like this one.
    Of course I don't agree with every single change: he keeps moving abilities around in the tree and some choices do appear suboptimal. But overall it's still incline and many abilities will be shuffled around some more anyway, that's for sure.

    FINALLY I decided to play the shorter campaign (there's even a super-short version now), and boy, I wish I tried it sooner.
    This is a far better pace, even if it does feel a bit fast at times.
    But again, overall, it's a game changer.
    I'm playing on Classic, the second difficulty level (which led me to rage-quit the last time, even if it took lots of missions) and so far, I seem to be holding. I think the fix with the Alien Progress really is working.
    I made it a little easier with some of the Second Wave choices, but I did not activate ALL (nor just) the ones which reduce the difficulty. It's more about preferences, really, but you ARE able to further fine-tune the level of the challenge.

    Also, I'm not downplaying the strategy game any more. I take it seriously now.
    I've found myself rushing critical projects or productions by selling meld and lots of things I used to simply hoard (even if it means not being sure I'll have them for future projects), trying to fulfill every reasonable request, especially the ones that contribute to the more pressing matters, and so on.

    I've rushed a conquest of the first alien base by the end of Month #5.
    It was hard, kinda epic, but doable.
    I don't believe I've ever even contemplated doing it so fast. But this means I've removed a source of resources for the Aliens... two more bases remain, and I think I'll attempt at least another one as soon as possible.

    I'm more or less swimming in Meld BUT after the base conquest mission I spent like 250 or so of it to fast-heal most of my A-Team (did I mention that with this mod you can spend 50 Meld to greatly reduce the healing and fatigue time?)

    The real cold shower arrived with the dreaded Deluge Mission.
    I think the mod author even commented specifically on this one. The fact is that the types of enemies in this (and possibly other) mission are hardcoded. So to tune them down he'd have to tune them down everywhere.
    During the campaign run I hadn't yet faced a single enemy Mech, because they're very, VERY tough now and I suppose they'll start coming only later.
    But if you get Deluge, you'll have to face them, together with a lot of Boss-level grunts, and that's the way it is.
    I'm afraid I had to cheat (save-scum) to beat this one.
    PERHAPS it is possible to beat it even by simply having a runner sneak past the enemy horde and reach the marker at the end of the map. Placing juicy, sacrificial targets to draw the enemy fire away from him and so on. But it'd still feel like cheesing it.

    Anyway, we'll see if it was just something limited to this singular case, or if the difficulty will start spiking like crazy again.
    Well the Fishing Village mission also comes to mind, I believe the issue is similar in fact, but I was still able to do it "cleanly" even though it was the hardest one up until that point.
    Anyway, I can't deny that I'm having FUN.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  7. mastroego Arcane

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    Well I got Confounding Light a little while after that and it went... bad.
    I'll try again tomorrow I guess.
    Shit.
    I know there ARE people who actually get to end with this thing.
     
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  8. mastroego Arcane

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    Did it.
    One casualty, though, actually the first one of the campaign.
    One of the 15 fixed soldiers that you get by default with this mod, but not one of my A-Team.
    B-Team, more like.
    A painful loss but I'll suck it up, I won't attempt a third time.
    Keep in mind that even plain soldiers are a premium asset now, you don't just hire them for 10 credits anymore. Heck I'm even accepting country requests that pay with soldiers now.

    Anyway.
    This mission truly is difficult. Maybe the one mission with an unforgiving, non-negotiable clock.
    You will absolutely need to expose people to direct fire in order to have a shot at getting to press the last button on time.
    Which I did, and soldiers got wounded.
    The one who got killed was unlucky though...got hit 1 one time in half-cover and TWO times in full cover.

    I suspect even this mission has some hardcoded things going on, but I still managed to beat it without cheats nor cheese.
    So I'm not giving up just yet.
     
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  9. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

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    i still can't get over the use of simdollars. it's just too big an immersion breaker.
     
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  10. mastroego Arcane

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    In case anyone's still interested, a few more comments on LWR V. 1.35.

    I think I may have a shot at completing the campaign.
    So far, OVERALL, it's been doable. Yeah I had to save-scum in a couple of INSANE mission (Exalt base, ouch!) and a few more times on the strategic level (also because I didn't really study all the mod changes before hand).
    I just completed the Base Defense mission and it was epic. First try I made a rookie mistake, ended up trounced, and had to restart.
    The second time went more or less flawlessly until the last batch of enemies arrived. Lots of robot and a psi commander.
    He fucking mind-controlled my Jaeger and I knew it was over. All those giant robots around my guys + my own sniper mech, and with the suspect that I could even find myself on the receiving end of an In The Zone chain.
    It was over.... and so close to the end!
    But then I remembered that my other Mech had the EMP pulse emitter.
    A tool I'm not even sure was present in the original game (or the regular LW, for that matter). Anyway, I never used it before, but did use it here.
    All mechanicals disabled, including my two own mechs, that means including the one hitting the pulse, but it was small price to pay.
    Bought the time needed to regain control of the situation and turn the tide.
    Ended the mission with several badly wounded soldiers but not a single casualty, and even the rookies performed admirably.
    Epic.

    Anyway, there ARE things I don't like with the mod.
    Most notably the fatigue mechanic, which can't entirely be reversed even with the Second Wave options.
    In fact, there's no real reason to remove the mission lenght factoring, as that actually makes sense and adds depth to the game.
    But there's also the fatigue amount added to each soldier on the basis of the TOTAL number of missions the same soldier did before. This makes no real sense and works as a de-facto hard limit to the number of missions each soldier can participate in.
    Now, even with a full set of "cosmetic" mods I used to struggle to give each soldier an unique face and voice, but I still could do it for 4 full teams of all 8 soldier classes, plus a couple of mechs.
    This mechanic forced me to add more soldiers, which I decided to just explicitly name Redshirt #1, Redshirt #2 and so on, all with the same helmet and voice. It made it bearable.
    I initially didn't like even the Seekers' changes (they will MURDER you if you don't spot them), but I eventually more or less accepted that one always has to have some way to spot cloaked units.

    Anyway, these are, all in all, minor.
    I can attest, at this point, that V. 1.35 is playable and a lot of fun.
    I'm playing at the second difficulty level, and yes there were bumps on the road, but I imagine that with the lowest setting, paired perhaps with all the Second Wave settings intended for an easier Air Combat, it might even approach a "casual" but still enjoyable set up.
    You may want to store this version as the author keeps changing it and it will disappear from the mod page eventually.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2021
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  11. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    I tuned out on the original Long War when I read the developers said it was not designed to allow the player to complete the game.
     
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  12. Darth Canoli Arcane

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    I agree, it's the future, humanity should use Yuans instead...
     
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  13. mastroego Arcane

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    But it can be done, in fact, the problem with LW is that you'll snowball if you know what you're doing, and then you'll get bored before you get to the finish line.
    LW Rebalance addresses that, though it can be argued that it gets too difficult.
    Still, one can play at the easiest difficulty setting, and pick Second Wave options to fine tune-things.

    I'd check that out if I were you, you're missing out, consider that LW Rebalance comes with a plethora of UI and QoL enhancements too.
     
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  14. Serus Arcane

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    I don't know where you read those. It is nonsense. Pure and simple. I very much doubt that any of the authors said such thing. Certainly not when sober. The game/mod is very much doable. In fact it can be done even ironman style. Myself I never technically finished it but i came to a point when i was already done with the main challenges of the game/mod like assaulting alien base and destroying exalt. Had many max level soldiers, couple level 3 mechs, etc... At this point I quit, but I don't finish a lot of games, especially crpgs, for the same reason.
    As others have said, the original LW's late game was actually too easy unless you were constantly taking losses earlier. This is why Rebalance submod exists. I need to play it one day but i dislike that some of the mini-mods for LW won't work with Rebalance. Also it seems it is a bit too bloated. The author added stuff for the purpose of adding more stuff - like the changed air combat. A problem original LW didn't have.
     
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  15. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    I didn't say they designed it specifically to be impossible to complete - I said they did not design it to be completable. The distinction is subtle but important.
     
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  16. JDR13 Arcane

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    Personally, I never understood the appeal of the Long War mods. To me, the length of the nuXCOMs is just right.
     
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  17. mastroego Arcane

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    Air Combat is actually a LOT better with LW Rebalance. I had fun with it too whereas it only used to be a nuisance.
    The mod does what it says: it rebalances everything. You may not agree with specific choices but it's not "bloat".
    Also by now the team has tackled several engine bugs fixes and UI improvements which I believe cannot be found anywhere else.


    It's not about lenght, it's about the vastly improved tactical depth of the game in LW (or LWR especially, imho).
    Indeed, I used the dynamic option to halve the lenght of the game in my last run (it was still long, tho, I'll grant that). There's an option for further lenght reduction now in LWR (but I didn't try it)
     
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  18. Serus Arcane

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    Not really. Also they certainly didn't in both cases. I don't know where you read it, it still is nonsense. It is very completable and it certainly was designed that way. I was playing it when the devs were still making some last improvements and balancing and those were certainly made for the purpose of the game being completable. You shouldn't really believe everything you read on the net.


    As mastroego have said, it isn't about length. True that length might be the weakest part of the mod but there are some options for that in the mod itself. What is important is everything else. It so much better than the original. It made an ok, at the most a good game - into a great one. In my opinion it might be one of the best "big"mod ever made from the ones i have ever played. Seriously, it doesn't suffer from many illness of such mods. It is not bloated with features that are there because: "look what cool stuff i can mod". And it is very well balanced - for the most part. What it adds or changes however is great. From limited skills and builds to varied and interesting ones. The higher size of the squad (6 - > 8 instead of 4 > 6), for which the game has been rebalanced, is alone making it much better, more like X-com and is addressing one of the serious issues with the original. Many other issues, like with with the strategic layer, were addressed as much as the engine allowed it. They were also made more similar to original X-Com when possible and sensible. Even the limited number of premade maps was "increased" by adding new starting points which works to some extent. The maps are the same but tactical challenges are more varied. Tactical combat overall plays better and is more varied. The game is simply MUCH improved in almost every regard, as simple as that. I wouldn't even imagine why someone would want to play the original. I did play it before LW1 and i don't see any reason to return.
    Just try it. Of the nuxcoms I had the best fun with LW1. Although I admit, I only played vanilla XCom2. Also the rebalance for LW1 might be the way to go this days.
     
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  19. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    EDITED
     
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  20. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    I meant .. I never said that :) I never even quoted someone saying that.
     
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  21. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    And you still don't seem to comprehend what I said.
     
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  22. Serus Arcane

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    Yes i do understand. You read some stupid claim on the net, you believed it without any verification, then repeated it here. Now You don't want to admit it. Either that of YOU do not understand what i say. Or both. So i'll repeat:
    And I already told you that the part in bold is bullshit. They DID design it to be completable, obviously. Just read their notes that came with subsequent versions of the mod. Or go to forums and ask. Or just ask any of the devs of LW1, they are still out there. Or think for a moment about how the mod really works, if You played it at all. Or just... don't... whatever. I'm thinking I had enough of this nonsense.
     
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