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FO3 is not nearly as bad as you hystronic nerds make it out to be

d1r

Busin 0 Wizardry Alternative Neo fanatic
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I probably should also point out that those fuckers tried to monetize mods. And half-way succeeded with it as well. They are the absolute worst.
 

MWaser

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Just like how real life capitalistic, property-owning elite has been testing in the last century how much bullshit can they pull to maximize their own profits while keeping people working for them and keeping the proles from revolting, even the video game industry companies have spent a good part of the last 2 decades checking how much can they pull shit in their industry to maximize profits without facing great financial failure as a result. And, since humans in general are cucks (as the real life capitalistic elite getting their own way big time has shown), the industry now reflects that, and mainstream propertyies are struck thoroughly with ways to extract more money from these pathetic consoomers, and for people who are capable of seeing past this bullshit, this kind of crap makes most of this trash unbearable.
 

Carrion

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My thoughts are that Fallout as a game, whichever one you play, has certain unique qualities which are very appealing and draw you in (the 50's culture, the world, the humour etc.). I played Fallout 3 first and to have all that thrown at me from the off was brilliant, and one of the main reasons I enjoyed it so much.

However had I seen all that in previous games, I may not have enjoyed it half as much. Certainly when I played any of the Fallout games after that, it was old hat and thus harder to get into them.

Maybe the whole franchize is just something which lives off these unique elements, and once enjoyed the appeal of subsequent games in the series dwindles somewhat?
FO3's humour or world (or gameplay or anything else for that matter) have barely anything in common with Fallout. The whole 50's aesthetic is just one example of how Bethesda took an element from the original games and just copied the most superficial aspects of it, either not understanding what it was about or simply not caring. Jumping into FO1 after FO3 should come off as a culture shock rather than "old hat".
 
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JDR13

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How did this suddenly go from being about disliking FO3 to hating Bethesda? The majority here are just talking about FO3. What other games Bethesda has published has nothing to do with that.
 

ZeniBot

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Fallout 3 was the appropriation of an IP. Its relevant as it was the first game put out in an attempt of Bethesda's conquest of IPs. That and overall the amount of apologist crap on this site now with Fallout 76 going on is pissing me off. Its blatant revisionism for the sake of sweeping Bethesda's past bullshit under the rug. Fallout 3 is a terrible game but most importantly a terrible fallout game. It is devoid of consequence. It confirms to Bethesda's by that point extremely tired Main Quest bs of you saving the world. They couldn't even get the BOS right. The ending is a massive cop out and the bastards had the nerve to charge people for allowing them to continue playing their game. They also did easily one of the worst player sacrifice scenes I've ever seen in a game.

The only one thing they got right was Megaton and that was a gimicky piece of shit that has very little bearing on the actual story beyond your dad scolding you or praising you. This is the main problem with Bethesda's games in general, their understanding of choice and consequence only applies to an arbitrary portion of the game. It may seem like its complex but it mostly just amounts to a binary choice that has no bearing on the game as a whole. The megaton part is the only impactful quest where you damage the game world depending on the choice you made, but I'd even then still argue its cosmetic at best only serving to gate you from content rather than open up entirely new possibilities and playstyles. Good and Evil play exactly the same. The karma system is shallow.

Edit we've seen Bethesda do this better with Morrowind and Daggerfall. Morrowind choosing between one faction or another especially with the great houses lead to a different experience over all, it encouraged replaying- Fallout 3 does not. Daggerfall being the most complex actually had you go down entirely separate MQ branches based on your choices. It is a HUGE decline in quality from what Bethesda were known for.
 

Duralux for Durabux

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It is a HUGE decline in quality from what Bethesda were known for.
They were known for delivering buggy,unfinished mess and now in 2020 they still deliver even more buggy,unfinished mess. They stick to their roots even more nowadays.I don't understand your complain here.

Edit:
Daggerfall being the most complex actually had you go down entirely separate MQ branches based on your choices.

You can thank morrowind for deleting this feature (the decline started with morrowind and we all know it ).
 
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ZeniBot

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It is a HUGE decline in quality from what Bethesda were known for.
They were known for delivering buggy,unfinished mess and now in 2020 they still deliver even more buggy,unfinished mess. They stick to their roots even more nowadays.I don't understand your complain here.

Edit:
Daggerfall being the most complex actually had you go down entirely separate MQ branches based on your choices.

You can thank morrowind for deleting this feature (the decline started with morrowind and we all know it ).

Ah he finally figured out that I was referring to pre-Morrowind. As I mentioned they were famous for doing that style of quest content spread out over a larger map, its why they were seen as an Origin Systems imitator. They eventually lost that when Todd took over because by then Origin was dead so there was no reason to continue with good designs anymore.
 

Duralux for Durabux

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Ah he finally figured out that I was referring to pre-Morrowind. As I mentioned they were famous for doing that style of quest content spread out over a larger map, its why they were seen as an Origin Systems imitator. They eventually lost that when Todd took over because by then Origin was dead so there was no reason to continue with good designs anymore.

No Todd is not a casual player(is that what you mean ), he is a businessman and a very smart guy. He removes features with each new installment because he know that what mass people want but deep down he doesn't play his games(because he knows that they are bad) and he even said himself that he makes the same game over and over again.
Also he plays and loves Incline rpg like Deus Ex, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld,Wizardry,etc...

Edit: I even want to say that he understood far better than us what sells and doesn't.
Making Incline games don't sell that much (look at Sir tech, Looking Glass , Origins System, ... All gone )
He doesn't want to be one of them.
 
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ZeniBot

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he says he plays them but he doesn't have an opinion on them (suggesting he's only saying that for "Social credit" like Pete Hines saying he's a fan of Icewind Dale LOL.). Point is that Bethesda actually had to try at one point. Once their main competitor died there was no more competition so they could keep shovelling shit over and over. We all wish that Bethesda were the ones that went bankrupt and the corpse of Origin was probably the one that survived under EA occupation... but I can't help but feel like that'd just be like what Bioware is now.

Todd is an insult to the old guard of games development. His butchery of Fallout is proof that he gives no shits about those classic RPGs and would give anything to simplify the fuck out of them if given the chance.

edit
Making Incline games don't sell that much (look at Sir tech, Looking Glass , Origins System, ... All gone )

Sir Tech collapsed because of stupid management decisions not because of good games. They produced bad games at the end that were mismanaged.
Looking Glass were shut by the same factors that lead to Ion Storms closure- it wasn't good games, it was bad publisher deals. They were exploited.
Origin Systems, again similarly made stupid decisions (RICHARD GARRIOT) which lead to Electronic Arts death marching them into a horrible state.
The difference is that Bethesda almost went bankrupt because of similar reasons but avoided certain collapse because Zenimax ousted most of the people that gave a shit and promoted Todd because he was literally the only guy left that could do the job. Todd was told to keep costs down. He has operated like that ever since at fear that Altman will rape his ass. This is primarily why Todd plays it safe because he's a little bitch that's too scared to crack open papa altman's check book hence reusing Gamebryo for 2 decades.
 
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Duralux for Durabux

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he says he plays them but he doesn't have an opinion on them (suggesting he's only saying that for "Social credit" like Pete Hines saying he's a fan of Icewind Dale LOL.). Point is that Bethesda actually had to try at one point. Once their main competitor died there was no more competition so they could keep shovelling shit over and over. We all wish that Bethesda were the ones that went bankrupt and the corpse of Origin was probably the one that survived under EA occupation... but I can't help but feel like that'd just be like what Bioware is now.

Todd is an insult to the old guard of games development. His butchery of Fallout is proof that he gives no shits about those classic RPGs and would give anything to simplify the fuck out of them if given the chance.
Hey look, you can keep hating him, i don't care. I'm just saying if i was a chief of an enterprise, a guy like that is a benediction for the company that what matters, the rest who cares (we are how many ? 500 dude at max and a handful of hardcore rpg's fans compared to million of mass players who play and enjoy their games).Hardcore Rpg fans are no more the target practice because nowadays we are a tiny piece of PC market. Back then, it was different, because it was a lot more difficult to play video games and afford the money to buy a Commodore 64 or an Amiga.
 

GloomFrost

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How did this suddenly go from being about disliking FO3 to hating Bethesda? The majority here are just talking about FO3. What other games Bethesda has published has nothing to do with that.
How is it even humanly possible to not hate post Morrowind bethesda? That is the question you should be asking. We could have had proper isometric F3 made by Obsidian in its prime a decade ago. Also horse armour DLC, autoleveling, immortal kids, mods monetization, F76. Enough?
 

Sigourn

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This mistake in world design is present in every other open world games , this flaw is not only correct for New Vegas but for all other games with a big and empty Open World (The witcher 3 , Just Cause , every games made by bethesda, to name a few ). Few games have arrived to overcome this flaw (Fallout 1,Arcanum, Gothic 1-2 ...).

If some games have managed to overcome this flaw, then it isn't present in every other open world game, now is it?

Like in real life, so what is your point? that it 's a bad design decision to make the world designed like our surroundings ?

That a videogame is not real life and it is expected to be fun. With your retarded "but it's just like real life" argument, we may as well mirror the huge, open, empty deserts of real life and see how fun they can actually be to traverse in-game.

Wait, we already have that. It's called Daggerfall, and everyone fast travelled in it.
 

Sigourn

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YOU ARE NOT THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC, DO NOT QUESTION THE MILLIONS OF NORMALCUCKS WHO CONSUME PRODUCT AND NEXT PRODUCT AFTER THAT BEEP BOOP ORANGE MAN BAD REE

Oh you're gonna fit in well around here.

Everywhere else: "you are not the target demographic" -> "oh ok"
RPG Codex: "you are not the target demographic" -> "REEEEE NORMALCUCKS"

:happytrollboy:

It's even funnier because you are demonizing people who simply play games ocassionally as opposed to shitting on games 24/7 like the other retards here do.
 

somewhatgiggly

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Does wiping Megaton off the map even DO anything, really, OP? Megaton is not important. Rivet City is not important. They're a collection of shops, and some player housing. But the story does not *NEED* them. It stings if you want it to, but the only real player in game who talks about it is Dad Qui Gon who chides you like you just stole something, not just killed a dozen people and wiped off a 60 year old town.

Part of this is, well, Bethesda didn't care. A town to them is just something to show off a zany post-apoc trope than a real post-post apoc society.

Megaton
is made of junk around a fucking functional Atomic bomb. Even just ripping it apart should had been the first train of thought to any settler here, because the Church of Atom came AFTER Megaton was made, not before, right?

You have a town on a bridge, that was neat but besides the vampire quest was never revisted. Related to that are the vampires in the tunnels. Because yes, this is a game that needs fucking Vampires??

Rivet City, instead of being this ex-military ex-government hub on an aircraft carrier...is just a bunch of idiots with some scientists on an aircraft carrier.

Tenpenny Towers is, somehow, a bunch of rich fucks in the most blasted out wasteland, far away from fucking anything, acting snobby. That's something I would expect more at that playboy palace in the city than out in bumfuck nowhere.

Then you have the kid's town, because yes - the wasteland sends all their kids, across the fucking map, into Mutant territory, to be raised without oversight or protection. Then they throw you out when you're big to another small hamlet in bumfuck nowhere again under Mutant influence, and is dulfully picked the fuck off by the Mutants.

The slavers, raiders, and mercs make the most sense, because they're slavers, raiders, and mercs.

Don't forget the drama of the guy trying to fuck the stupid girl, the only two people in a town out in bumfuck nowhere, when they could had easily shoved that into Megaton.

Then there's the trader settlement. Nothing to say here, that's fine. They could had done a lot more with it, but eh. Trade hubs are expected. The Mechanicst and Ant-woman were a fun aside.

Obligatory Ghoul Town.

Oh and the Republic of Dave. It's...alright, I expect bullshit petty tinpot dictators to arise out in the waste. Am I forgetting any? The dead rock town we never got to see? The town with the ants? Oh, the cannibal town, right. Uhh..Cannibals, dressing up like its the 50s and everything is fine. I basically just shove them up under Raiders, kill them. I wish I could send Rivet City or Megaton or BoS by to take the kids in..... Or even send them to Little Bigfoot, but nooO!
 
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Squid

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While ZeniBot is doing some very high quality posting here, Sigourn's still right. Most people here aren't the target demographic. Most people who do play these games don't put a lot of what they play/watch/read in entertainment under a critical lens.
 

ZeniBot

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While ZeniBot is doing some very high quality posting here, Sigourn's still right. Most people here aren't the target demographic. Most people who do play these games don't put a lot of what they play/watch/read in entertainment under a critical lens.
the point was though that once we WAZ DA target demographic n'shiet. It feels like utter shit to have quality IPs whored out and shot.
We react about as well as the star wars fandom did to the same thing. Its just getting frustrating because the worlds getting boring out there. Running out of shit to give a damn about.

Just you know. Stop pissing on my back and telling me Todd's games are good because truth is its still Todd piss.
 

ZeniBot

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It's even funnier because you are demonizing people who simply play games ocassionally as opposed to shitting on games 24/7 like the other retards here do.
Just want to point out what the fuck those people are then even doing on a site like this then. If they don't want a discussion about critical aspects then what the fuck are they doing in a THREAD DISCUSSING CRITICAL ASPECTS OF THE GAME! as I've said in the fallout 76 thread. A person that was currently playing games casually wouldn't be posting, they would be playing the damn game. So I have to wonder if this is merely guerrilla marketing and you're all that stupid to fall for it.
 

ZeniBot

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Getting back on topic another point as to why I feel like Fallout 3 is crap. The one time they tried to actually impress me by going back to the Tutorial Character Creation quest and they totally undercook it.
this could've been great. I was even surprised they tried to do it but then when you actually do the quest it ends with you being perma-banished and treated like everything is the same as it always was.
Instead this could've been good for branching out the initial tutorial story where what you did in the tutorial had some actual meaningful consequences which ultimately determines how the vault is run or the quality its in when you return.
Maybe it went completely to shit... Maybe it didn't. I would've like to have seen the Vault actually turn into a form of player housing, almost like a base of operations where eventually you had the choice of being an envoy to the wastelands on behalf of the vault, leaving the vault completely never to return, trying to integrate the vault into the greater wastes (which could've seen your vault dwellers venturing out and trading- leading to some emergent fun with protecting your Vaultdwellers). There was a lot of wasted potential here as I felt you could've told an entire MQ just about the vault population and how they integrated into the greater wasteland.

Instead all we really got was "well you fucked things up even further, you better leave" no matter what you chose. This is another example of why Todd's concept of Choice and Consequence is about as shallow as it can be yet idiots keep praising him for it when he didn't do anything at all that was remotely impressive. Hows about turning off the Plot Invincibility todd?
 

Duralux for Durabux

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Getting back on topic another point as to why I feel like Fallout 3 is crap. The one time they tried to actually impress me by going back to the Tutorial Character Creation quest and they totally undercook it.
this could've been great. I was even surprised they tried to do it but then when you actually do the quest it ends with you being perma-banished and treated like everything is the same as it always was.
Instead this could've been good for branching out the initial tutorial story where what you did in the tutorial had some actual meaningful consequences which ultimately determines how the vault is run or the quality its in when you return.
Maybe it went completely to shit... Maybe it didn't. I would've like to have seen the Vault actually turn into a form of player housing, almost like a base of operations where eventually you had the choice of being an envoy to the wastelands on behalf of the vault, leaving the vault completely never to return, trying to integrate the vault into the greater wastes (which could've seen your vault dwellers venturing out and trading- leading to some emergent fun with protecting your Vaultdwellers). There was a lot of wasted potential here as I felt you could've told an entire MQ just about the vault population and how they integrated into the greater wasteland.

Instead all we really got was "well you fucked things up even further, you better leave" no matter what you chose. This is another example of why Todd's concept of Choice and Consequence is about as shallow as it can be yet idiots keep praising him for it when he didn't do anything at all that was remotely impressive. Hows about turning off the Plot Invincibility todd?
Maybe Todd would've have understand that choices and consequences are important if people stopped to put Morrowind far ahead of what it is really. It was boring and linear like FF14's corridors.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I may not be the target audience of nuBethesda, but I'm a fan of Morrowind, Daggerfall, and the original Fallouts (as well as New Vegas), and nuBethesda turned all these franchises into casual shit that's not even half as enjoyable as the old entries.

I have all rights to be butthurt about this and shit on Bethesda.
 

ZeniBot

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Maybe Todd would've have understand that choices and consequences are important if people stopped to put Morrowind far ahead of what it is really. It was boring and linear like FF14's corridors.

Guys I think I made another Bethesda Community Manager angry at me again guys! GUYS!

Edit. Because the idiot has no evidence to support his bullshit.
dungeon-level-design-comparison-ihe-elder-scrolls-iii-morrowind-giz4-50052400.png
 
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DalekFlay

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I may not be the target audience of nuBethesda, but I'm a fan of Morrowind, Daggerfall, and the original Fallouts (as well as New Vegas), and nuBethesda turned all these franchises into casual shit that's not even half as enjoyable as the old entries.

I have all rights to be butthurt about this and shit on Bethesda.

Your argument is "I am butthurt and don't care!" Which is a very human argument I suppose, so no judgment there. However we can't pretend shit isn't true that is true. Bethesda release more AAA singleplayer games that are actually incline... Dishonored, nuDoom, Prey, etc.... than any other AAA publisher I can think of. I think people are so ragey about Fallout 3 and Fallout 76 they can't accept this, and must rage against it no matter what, but it's the truth. There's nowhere to go with it but acceptance.

When the Codex criticizes games for actual mechanics and design flaws there's no forum better at exposing these issues. When Codex shouts at clouds in rage, insisting games like Dishonored 2 are bad because "RAWR BETHESDA SUCKS!!!" they just look like butthurt boomers.
 

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