Review Gamerz Edge praises ToEE

[Killzig]

I'd just like to chime in and say god forbid Troika waste their time with another game in this Temple series. Time to get back to Arcanum type games, that's when I love them most. This D&D experiment might as well be classed as their "icewind" type game.

 

[Spazmo]

we read this board/site for same reason we read the Executive Intelligence Review... for the chuckle value.

I think Gromnir doesn't like us. Well, shitbird, thanks a bunch for exposing what fragile, pathetic beings we are. We sure learned our lesson! Hoo boy! Your work is clearly done here. Feel free to go away now. I'm sure there's a thousand different boards who need their rampant hypocrisy exposed by noble souls like yourself, Gromney.

I'd just like to chime in and say god forbid Troika waste their time with another game in this Temple series. Time to get back to Arcanum type games, that's when I love them most. This D&D experiment might as well be classed as their "icewind" type game.

Well, it was a whole fucking lot better than Icewind Dale and it's certainly nothing for Troika to be ashamed of, but I would be real disappointed if they were to announce any more D&D games. Hell, I'd be annoyed if they announced any more licenced games, unless it's a licence that doesn't suck like Shadowrun or something.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Gromnir not liking this site just goes to show we're on the right track.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Gromnir not liking this site just goes to show we're on the right track.

Right on, I'd really disappointed if he said "hey, this place is great, just like the iply boards"

Well, it was a whole fucking lot better than Icewind Dale and it's certainly nothing for Troika to be ashamed of, but I would be real disappointed if they were to announce any more D&D games.

Well, I'm playing ToEE now (again) and it's a blast, it couldn't really be compared to IWD. Would have been nice to have another module, since the engine, rules, spells, items and such are already done. What an awesome implementation of TB combat, I just had that battle in the tower when gazillion guards supported by a wizard, 2 witches, and a bunch of strategically placed bowmen attack you. This battle is one of the ToEE's highlight and a tribute to TB combat.

 

[Sabotai]

I even wonder if it's really him. Feels more like an impersonator. I wonder why he didn't sign in as Gromnir ilKhan. That's what he did at Mistress' Lair. Enfin, it's not really that interesting.

 

[Volourn]

Well.. As muchas I like RPGCodex; Grom has a point. It is bias as evidenced by the topic heading. Of course, that isn't a big deal as every site everywhere has its bias. I'm not too worried about people being bias as that's to be expected.

As for TOEE; I'm gonna play it again just to see if it'll grow on me. Hey, it's hapopened before. As long as the bugs to eat me; I'm sure it'll go fine. I'm sorry VD; but that battle you discuss was one of the easiest battles in the game. A simple fireball basically wiped out the majority of the room and the rest was simple mop out. No real tatics involved except the fieball 9if that can be called "tatics" ).


I could live with a sequel if they go with an ORIGINAL, interesting story and make the combat tougher. And fix the items so identify works properly!!! The engine, rules, and spells are fien for the most part. What the sequel needs is actually interetsing npcs - please don't give me one or two exmaples of interesting npcs which are the exception not the rule.

Enjoy.

 

[Killzig]

the engine's fine but the gameplay is pretty uninteresting. you can only explore the nuances of tb combat with a gelatinous cube for so long.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well.. As muchas I like RPGCodex; Grom has a point. It is bias as evidenced by the topic heading. Of course, that isn't a big deal as every site everywhere has its bias. I'm not too worried about people being bias as that's to be expected.

What are you talking about? What topic heading? We posted plenty of negative ToEE reviews, one happened to be good, so it's biased suddenly?

I'm sorry VD; but that battle you discuss was one of the easiest battles in the game. A simple fireball basically wiped out the majority of the room and the rest was simple mop out. No real tatics involved except the fieball 9if that can be called "tatics" ).

Every battle is easy if you wait long enough (i.e level up) to acquire superior skills and spells. I did it when I was lvl 3 and 4 and I didn't have any joinable NPCs, so it was very challenging. I played ToEE many times and once I didn't go to the tower till I was lvl 6 or 7 (I went straight to the temples first) and then I did clean the room with 2 fireballs.

I could live with a sequel if they go with an ORIGINAL, interesting story and make the combat tougher.

It wouldn't hurt

The engine, rules, and spells are fien for the most part.

For the most part? So what's not fine?

 

[Gromnir]

we apologize in advance for reply/quote nonsense, but so many of you got words for Gromnir and we ain't bothering to make a half dozen posts to respond to you individually. again, we apologize for being gauche… as if you would notice, eh?

"Gamerz Edge posted this ToEE's review awhile ago, but since it's very positive I felt obligated to share this unbiased opinion with you."

says right there that he felt obligated to post 'cause it was positive. you gotta learns to read a little better son 'fore you spout off, else you end up looking a bit foolish... or more foolish.

HA! Good Fun!

Isn't it blatantly obvious? You're obviously missing Vault Dweller's humorous self-mocking undertone.

doesn't anybody read on this board?

we specifically asked vd if he was being sarcastic... and he indicated that he was not.

"You gave Jinxed the advice to learn to read, here is one for you: don't make judgements based on assumptions, "else you end up looking a bit foolish... or more foolish."

what assumption? we read what you wrote. you noted reason for posting and an amusing reason it was. we know that you enjoy mocking reviews you disagree with and does not shy from posting links to such reviews, but we thinks that the moment of honesty was fun for all… or at least fun for Gromnir. we not care if it was fun for rest of you.

"when such opinion is replaced by overt trolling, with no semblance of a real point, aside from the mocking of the way that things are done here, it takes away from the relatively free interchange of opinion that is seen here. "

is no reason in posting a "real point" here 'less it is one shared by the homogenized folks who makes up majority of posters. vol and some couple others seems to like fighting with the multitude, but is a pointless battle as no matter what he or some other person says, you folks will tenaciously hold to your opinions with a unassailable unity of purpose that makes one think of religions zealotry. this is not a place for debate.


btw, for st. and a few others… we love your board, and said so already. you folks not seem to read at all, do you? site is informative and entertaining... though we expect that you not see as entertaining for same reasons as does Gromnir.

enjoy rest of weekend and keep up the good work.

HA! Good Fun!

p.s. oh, and for folks thinking we ain’t who we claims ‘cause of name difference… HA! at bio boards we post as Gromnir, and at mistress we post as gromnir ilkhan. at RAND boards we post as Tiberius and at most boards we frequent we actually post as Ernie… though our name is not ernie. many different names, but always constant at a particular venue.(qualification: one exception of note is that at bio/bis and other game boards we has occasionally posted as, Storyteller, but we always end such posts with, “HA! Good Fun!” so as not to be misleading.) reason for difference ‘tween Gromnir/gromnir ilkhan at bio/mistress is pretty simple and not very interesting, but we tell you anyway as is more interesting than material of thread.

long times ago when ip boards go through one of numerous changes format, somebody, for whatever reason, took Gromnir name… couldn’t sign up as Gromnir… so we added the ilkhan part. through most of ip and bis incarnations of boards we has kept ilkhan tag. since most folks at mistress board is familiar to us from ip/bis boards we chose to use a name most familiar to them. no big secret.

you can now feel secure in disliking Gromnir for who he is, and not for who he might be.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Isn't it blatantly obvious? You're obviously missing Vault Dweller's humorous self-mocking undertone.

doesn't anybody read on this board? we specifically asked vd if he was being sarcastic... and he indicated that he was not.

The exact words were "no, it wasn't sarcasm as I hardly see anything in the review that could be described as biased one way or another". I believe that Sabotai made a reference to "obligated to post". Different things, besides there is a difference between sarcasm and humorous undertone.

what assumption? we read what you wrote. you noted reason for posting and an amusing reason it was. we know that you enjoy mocking reviews you disagree with and does not shy from posting links to such reviews, but we thinks that the moment of honesty was fun for all… or at least fun for Gromnir. we not care if it was fun for rest of you.

It's clear that the "reason for posting" was a joke, as we post anything. Yes, we do mock reviews we disagree with, pointing blatant lies and exaggerations. I found none in the review. Had somebody praised ToEE, a game that I like a lot, claiming that Hommlets quests were the finest examples of role-playing, I would have mocked that as well.

you can now feel secure in disliking Gromnir for who he is, and not for who he might be.

Well, that part was funny

 

[Gromnir]

"Had somebody praised ToEE, a game that I like a lot, claiming that Hommlets quests were the finest examples of role-playing, I would have mocked that as well. "

riiiiiigggghhhttt. in truth you woulda' found something in the positive toee review that you agreed with, and noted just how perceptive the reviewer was.

folks who applaud kotor is usually morons and their reviews is obviously flawed.

folks who likes toee is actually “getting it.”

not matter which review is better written or uses more compelling reason.

*shrug*

you makes no attempt at being impartial and unbiased... none. 'course that is part of your charm here, and we would not want you to change.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Volourn]

VD, I know you post negative reviews of TOEE. That isn't the point. The point is when you DO post a "negative" review; you ALWAYS mock it; insult it. There are very few, if any, "negative" reviews of TOEE that you haven't cited as bias, full of lies, etc. etc. The reverse is true with positive reviews of the game. They are almost seemingly labled unbias by the majority here. Go figure. Same thing with other games. The site dislikes NWN/BIO so any positive review is seen as bias/brainwahsed/paid for; while the if it's negative (rare admittedly :D ); it's unbias and true journalism. That's the bias I'm r eferring to. Nothing to be ahsamed of. The old saying goes,"The only good review is the review that agrees with one's opinion." Everyone lives by that motto and RPGCodex is not the exception in most cases. I try to keep by biases at the door since I do tend to like RPGCodex's reviews despite their biasness. :wink:

(wow, longer than I thought).


No, this battle is easy unless purposely go there as soon as possible ignoring the other more obvious path. I was there about level 6, or 7 and I didn't use npcs either. The combat is hard there if you purposely skip the first few sections of the game which the majority of epople aren't gonna do their first time through when playing the game "normally". That area is no doubt not balanced for a level 3 party I would presume since by the time you get to the temple you are predicatblly higher than level 3 unless you did what you did.

For the most part; is not to nit pick. ie. The rules, even more accurate than other D&D crpgs are NOT exact; so that can be refined. For a start, just read the last couple of pages in the manual for thinsg riped for the changin'. The engine's AI can easily be enhanced, as well as pathfinding. And, on, and on. No game is perfect so of course it can be improved.

 

[Anonymous]

ProTip: Most negative ToEE reviews are written by very ignorant people and they usually mock their blunderings.

If you dont believe me, write up a review on a webpage, Volourn.

 

[Vault Dweller]

riiiiiigggghhhttt. in truth you woulda' found something in the positive toee review that you agreed with, and noted just how perceptive the reviewer was.
folks who applaud kotor is usually morons and their reviews is obviously flawed.
folks who likes toee is actually “getting it.”

VD, I know you post negative reviews of TOEE. That isn't the point. The point is when you DO post a "negative" review; you ALWAYS mock it; insult it. There are very few, if any, "negative" reviews of TOEE that you haven't cited as bias, full of lies, etc. etc. The reverse is true with positive reviews of the game. They are almost seemingly labled unbias by the majority here. Go figure. Same thing with other games. The site dislikes NWN/BIO so any positive review is seen as bias/brainwahsed/paid for; while the if it's negative (rare admittedly ); it's unbias and true journalism. That's the bias I'm r eferring to.

I disagree. It's unfair to blame the stupidity of many reviewers on me Since I started doing the news thing here, I had to read many more reviews then I usually do, and I was shocked at what passes for reviews these days. As was noted in the old article I posted in General Discussion, a review usually follows the same format: "go over the background story, note how beautiful the game looks, list the available tech features, end with a rosy quote or textual flourish of your own". That's how I see it and that's why I mock it. We mock the reviewers in the news posts, not games. KOTOR wasn't a bad game, and it deserves to be praised but its' ridiculous when it gets praised for "the best story of the century", innovative pause-n-play gameplay, and strategic and tactical combat. Here is another example, I posted this HotU review and since it didn't overhype the game, I didn't mock it but commented that Bio is moving to the right direction. If you folks disagree, I'd like to ask for some examples.

No, this battle is easy unless purposely go there as soon as possible ignoring the other more obvious path.

For me it was the obvious path, my good buddy Lareth took me there

 

[Araanor]

I recall a very positive TOEE review that was posted some time back, most of the comments were made in criticism of it. Fact is, most reviews are pretty stupid.

Grom, your points have the stink of someone who doesn't share the general view of the site and bases his opinion on cursive glances at the posts here. Netiquette should tell you to know your surroundings. Thread lightly.

 

[triCritical]

folks who applaud kotor is usually morons and their reviews is obviously flawed.

folks who likes toee is actually “getting it.”

It has to do with perspective. A lot of people here like classic RPG'ing and/or CRPG's that focus on character development. Personally, I think KotOR sucked, and had it not been for the positive reviews by St, and people like Azael I would have never bought it. I thought it was an adventure game with some of the worst CRPG elements ever found in game to be called a CRPG (exaggeration). I thought the character development was how to clone DnD with little thought, and more Blizzard style balancing (which I thought they failed in) and the obvious choice between good and bad. But the game definately was a masterpiece of what appeals to large audiences helped by a huge marketing campaign. First CRPG I have ever seen a commercial for.

 

[triCritical]

Yeah. 'Cause TOEE is the *only* game to ever have word count limits.

Well I am sure PS:T didn't. Same with the Fallout's. And considering BG2 had a higher word count then BG I am sure no such limitation was placed on them. Arcanum did not have this limitation either... Hmm, I just can't seem to think of a CRPG with great dialogue and serious word count's imposed on them.

Keep in mind I am not saying that dialogue is ungreat, for it SUCKS! But I think if people no its cause and are educated they can let publisher's know that this is a really screwed up idea, and could potentially hurt sales.

 

[DemonKing]

ProTip: Most negative ToEE reviews are written by very ignorant people and they usually mock their blunderings.

Most reviews I read basically said it was a good game that would have been a better game if it wasn't for the bug count.

That's not ignorant - it's a fact.

With any luck someone at Atari with half a brain cell read a couple of those "ignorant" reviews and will recommend that maybe for the next game some decent QA time is involved (hey -we can dream, right?).

 

[Gromnir]

“Here is another example, I posted this HotU review and since it didn't overhype the game, I didn't mock it but commented that Bio is moving to the right direction. If you folks disagree, I'd like to ask for some examples.”

that is your example of objectivity and unbiased treatment? one highly qualified comment that is a backhanded compliment at best.

tell you what, find a positive comment ‘bout toee that you blasted in news section for stupidity or ignorance, and maybe we begins to see some even treatment.

is not like there hasn’t been a few stupid toee comments from reviewers. we can find bunches. heck, we even recall one reviewer singling out how toee finally got charm person spell right in a game. coulda’ used any example he wanted, but he chose charm person. HA! is particularly funny ‘cause toee charm person NOT implemented ‘ccording to d&d 3e or 3.5 rules... does not turn you hsotile 'gainst friends. even worse, the most common defense, protection v. alignment, was also busted giving no protection at all from charm person. his error just illustrated to us how busted toee implementation of rules really was… and how ignorant he was... which is too bad 'cause toee did many things right.

is just one random example…

so show us the stupid toee comments you has pointed out

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Jinxed]

Yup, I agree with deathy here, you're trolling. First you pointed out why this review got posted, and now you are questioning the integrity of news writers in general. What's next?

 

[Sol Invictus]

You're damn right we're biased. We're biased against blatant advertising and corporate-sponsored claptrap and we'll go some distance to make that as evident as possible to the reader.

 

[Vault Dweller]

“Here is another example, I posted this HotU review and since it didn't overhype the game, I didn't mock it but commented that Bio is moving to the right direction. If you folks disagree, I'd like to ask for some examples.”

that is your example of objectivity and unbiased treatment? one highly qualified comment that is a backhanded compliment at best.

Are you changing rules during the game? First, you said that we mock anything but what we like. I explained the actual reason for mocking and proved it with an exampe. Now, my comment wasn't complimentary enough. Well, here is another one:

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3049
Saint posted this KOTOR review and made the following comment:"I got to say, I like this one. Many of the objections I had with the title are also in this thing." No mocking, the review was positive overall, what sets it aside is the reviewer noted some actual issues with the game instead of admiring the graphics.

tell you what, find a positive comment ‘bout toee that you blasted in news section for stupidity or ignorance, and maybe we begins to see some even treatment.

Tell you what, since you are the one who made accusations, you're the one who should be producing proofs and examples. Surely it mustn't be that hard in such a biased and unobjective place :wink: Well, just for the record, I started posting news less then a month ago, so I missed most ToEE reviews. The one that started this thread didn't have anything stupid, imo.

Don't get me wrong though, I couldn't care less what people think of me. I did post the explanations above to answer quick questions and deal with some assumptions a person new to this forum would have. Call it a courtesy. Going beyond such a courtesy, trying to prove something to an obviously biased person, looking for examples to get someone's approval sounds like a waste of time to me. Having said that, if you find something you disagree with and woud like to ask me about it, I'll always answer your or anybody else's questions.

 

[Gromnir]

change rules? what are you talking 'bout? we noted that your comment was inherently biased and that your explanation hardly explained anything. we read what you said and your "explanation" changed nothing.

and yeah, that link by you give is a notable exception by st. p but we already seen it. his opinion of kotor has vascilated somewhat but he generally seemed positive 'bout kotor and we ain't surprised to see him note another relatively positive review of kotor. is notable 'cause it is an exception.

also, didn't st.p post that after we started noting how provincial and biased you folks is? is nice to see y'all snap to so fast, but is maybe not best example to take something st. p writes after our criticism.

now, where is yours? and where is your scathing comment concerning a positive toeepost. give one. you has done dozens of silly and even stupid complaints 'bout various reviews, but none from the innumerable stupid toee reviews. and the reason why? is obvious and anybody who follows this board can see.

c'mon vd, you said that if you had seen a stupid comment from a toee review that you woulda' likewise mocked... well we has seen dozens of such stoopid comments in toee reviews. so where is your mockery of positive toee reviews? you raised the example yourself, much as the reviewer we note above… now come through.


"First you pointed out why this review got posted, and now you are questioning the integrity of news writers in general. "

dope. we was questioning their integrity from the start… though we applaud their entertainment value. glad you is finally up to speed though.

sheesh.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Ummm..... is this guy for real? :shock:

Go back to living under that bridge of yours and eating billy goats. Sheesh.

 

[Jinxed]

dope. we was questioning their integrity from the start… though we applaud their entertainment value. glad you is finally up to speed though.

sheesh.

So why start with a smaller thing and then move to the "real" thing you have on your mind? Are you having sex with the board?

You aren't out to prove that Vault Dweller is a lousy news writer, you want to prove that the Codex is a lousy news site and this is where the trollin' begins.