games that have an ugly 'early 3D' look

[Reinhardt]

Lmao, Codexian pissing contest of posting THE EARLIEST EARLY 3D GAMEZ!" Having said that, including KotOR in the OP was pretty silly.
I think when most people mention "early 3D" they mean something around 1995 - 1999. Jedi Knight, Die by the Sword, Trespasser, TombRaider 1-3 and the Lara Corft wannabes.

Objectively, this is horrible.

But it undeniably has an unique atmosphere to it. Low resolution 3d really forces your imagination to fill the gaps and humanoid forms always look disturbing. Spooky.
Made non-horror games of that time much scarier than intended. No wonder there's a fair number of indie early-3d horror games.

deathtrap dungeon. my first porn gaem.

 

[JarlFrank]

But it undeniably has an unique atmosphere to it. Low resolution 3d really forces your imagination to fill the gaps and humanoid forms always look disturbing.

This is why it's an incredibly strong aesthetic, and why Tomb Raider 1 will never be matched in atmosphere by another game of its genre. Even its own sequels lost a lot of the forlorn atmosphere.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

By some of the definitions in this topic, the first 3D game I played (not based on polygonal 3d models like Quake) was something I played on my first computer - a Commodore VIC-20 (which I don't really have fond memories of... it was the C64 that first sparked me with ecstasy in computer gaming several years later). It was a game called Maze, I think, that I typed in and saved on my datasette from a magazine. It was just walking around in a procedurally generated maze in 1st person until you found "the object". Once you did, the maze would start to decay and you had to find your way out again to win before the walls collapsed on you. I thought it was the coolest thing I ever saw up until then. My friend Chet hated it though because he could never escape the maze in time - he had terrible claustrophobia and a fear of tunnels and you could see him sweating and panicking as time ran out (he much preferred playing on the intellivision I traded for from his little brother for an Atari 2600). But that first-person perspective of a wire-frame maze was the very beginning of it all for me. This was about 1980.

 

[v1c70r14]

This post was sponsored by the Polish-Bulgarian League of Cuckolds and Homosexuals.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

to retardoland with this dumb thread, or at least clarify what we are supposed to be discussing. Is this the "point and laugh at ALL early 3D games because they are ugly" in which case, dumb thread, or "early 3D games that looked shit even for the time" which makes a bit more sense. The OP and the title makes it sound like the former, along with a number of retarded examples e.g Quake 2 looked above average when it came out and was one of the first TRUE 3D games, no use of sprites. Certainly is not a looker, but it was above average for 90s 3D so using it as an example doesn't make sense.

The "early 3D" mentality is how adding slightly better effects sacrifices art direction. It's making the game not stylized enough, with no soul when realistic look isn't attainable on the hardware. It's forgetting that the work is 'art', not a GPU showcase.

Quake 2 aged a lot worse than Quake 1, even if you add tons of texture mods. Quake 1 has aged excellently. Why? It's something that can be analyzed, discussed. Hence a thread. But you're right, the title was too judgemental and I've edited it.

The SHOGO/Goldeneye examples are priceless though.

Shogo: Mobile Armor Division came out in 1998. There’s no reason the character models in that game had to look as wonky as they did. The problem in the picture shown back on the first page isn’t so much a issue with the game being 3D, it’s more the face mesh they made for the model looks fucking terrible.

 

[asper]

Quality thread. Some wonderful games being posted, and some good discussion.
Overall agree with JarlFrank. These old games have something special.










Quake 3 engine
See how the limitations of the engine fully work to the advantage of the worldbuilding and atmosphere.

 

[Dexter]

Quake 3 engine
See how the limitations of the engine fully work to the advantage of the worldbuilding and atmosphere.

Kind of a bad example, since an actual sequel exists showing what's possible 10 years later:

 

[luj1]

Real early 3D was just flat-colored geometric blocks

You're right but none is talking about those here

 

[MLMarkland]

Goldeneye 007. /thread

Goldeneye was so retarded ugly it’s amazing.

 

[MLMarkland]

Almost three threads in and no one mentioned Neverwinter Nights. Jesus christ guys.

The original NWN was so much garbage in a box when you first tried the SP after IE games.

But the mod tools were cool and led to a 20 year career so far.

 

[Ba'al]

Behold, the crooked world of Dungeon Keeper 2:

Yeah I'm cheating by showing close-ups of a game played top down but still, the game doesn't really have visual clarity:

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Dungeon Keeper 2 still looks nice.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

DK1 still looks nicer and even that is not early 3d and boasts features like zoom, rotate and dynamic lighting.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Almost three threads in and no one mentioned Neverwinter Nights. Jesus christ guys.

The original NWN was so much garbage in a box when you first tried the SP after IE games.

The original Neverwinter Nights was a 2D game based on the Gold Box engine.

 

[MLMarkland]

Almost three threads in and no one mentioned Neverwinter Nights. Jesus christ guys.

The original NWN was so much garbage in a box when you first tried the SP after IE games.

The original Neverwinter Nights was a 2D game based on the Gold Box engine.

It’s an AOL online play in 1990s riffing on trade wars 2000 on BBS.

And it was complete nonsense. NWN 1/2 we’re both reiterations of this online and moddable AOL concept/partnership.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Shogo Mobile Armor Division

The mech sections in Shogo - and here I specifically mean the cityscape ones - actually looked p good. Great even.
But yeah the on foot part could be p simplistic and ugly looking.

Honestly I think it a better idea talk about early 3D games that can still look appealing. One can post pics of early King's Field games with The Simpsons ha-ha but remember, those were fully 3D first person games with real time combat, in early 90s, on a console. Ground breaking stuff. Many of these games were breaking new grounds, introducing innovative new engines, doing unexpected things with existing ones. Feels p much cringe Zoomery laughing at le funneh polygons and Teh Jank here.

Well... uhh, I hate to say this, but the main problem with Shogo's graphic is... anime.

The problem is a simple one, and it’s a problem developers have in 2D too, so this thread is somewhat funny in that regard, and that is the team clearly had no fucking idea how to achieve the aesthetic they were going for. Hell, the biggest problem with the Shogo character models isn’t even necessarily a 3D model issue, it’s the shitty 2D pixel work done on the mesh on that 3D model.

This game:

Came out a year after this game:

Two games with simple 3D models. Two game going for a anime style. But one game understands how to pull off what it’s going for visually while working under the constraints of the time with regards to 3D, and the other one doesn’t.

 

[Dexter]

The problem is a simple one, and it’s a problem developers have in 2D too, so this thread is somewhat funny in that regard, and that is the team clearly had no fucking idea how to achieve the aesthetic they were going for. Hell, the biggest problem with the Shogo character models isn’t even necessarily a 3D model issue, it’s the shitty 2D pixel work done on the mesh on that 3D model.

Were they going for an "Animu" style though? Because I played Shogo back in the day and it kind of reminded me more of Half Life or Quake:


It's also a Western game made by Monolith in-between Blood and Blood II while the other game is Japanese by Capcom. Much simpler explanation is probably that someone on the team thought it was funny to make fun of the Animu aesthetic by giving some characters big eyes.
http://web.archive.org/web/19990508222932/http://www.shogo-mad.com/anime/anime_riot.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/19990427134716/http://www.shogo-mad.com/anime/anime_laws.asp

Little of the rest of the game would indicate that the people developing were incompetents, from the design of the mechs to some of the other characters in 3D:

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Yes, Shogo, the giant mecha game with anime characters on the box, anime posters in the base, transforming mecha, and references to mecha anime was going for a anime thing. Shogo is Monolith doing their take on Robotech.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

The developers talk about in this video. The game was pitched Jason Hall, one of Monolith Productions founders. He wanted a Robotech game where you could fly around a city as a transforming robot.

 

[Dexter]

Yes, Shogo, the giant mecha game with anime characters on the box, anime posters in the base, transforming mecha, and references to mecha anime was going for a anime thing. Shogo is Monolith doing their take on Robotech.

Your argument wasn't whether they were inspired by Animu to develop the game, that doesn't stand in contention. You said that "they were going for" an Animu aesthetic and that "the team clearly had no fucking idea how to achieve" that. Then you compared it to an actual Animu game saying these are "two game(s) going for a anime style":

Aside from a few joke references in Shogo and a bit of 2D art I see nothing to indicate that they were going for an "Animu style" though and somehow horribly failed in either of the lengthy gameplay videos.

 

[MLMarkland]

Yes, Shogo, the giant mecha game with anime characters on the box, anime posters in the base, transforming mecha, and references to mecha anime was going for a anime thing. Shogo is Monolith doing their take on Robotech.

Your argument wasn't whether they were inspired by Animu to develop the game, that doesn't stand in contention. You said that "they were going for" an Animu aesthetic and that "the team clearly had no fucking idea how to achieve" that. Then you compared it to an actual Animu game saying these are "two game(s) going for a anime style":

Aside from a few joke references in Shogo and a bit of 2D art I see nothing to indicate that they were going for an "Animu style" though and somehow horribly failed in either of the lengthy gameplay videos.

This reminds me more of other things than anime in the 21st century understanding of the Japanese art style.

Cel shading is generally a required characteristic. I’ve had engineers and tech artists build a real time 3D asset cel shader renderer for a project 14 years ago. The project was “building a game engine.” So, anime certainly influenced the design of that particular render mode, but it was just a feature of a subsystem of a game engine, so “anime” as an overall concept wasn’t relevant — just “what does it generally look like” — I don’t into anime, so from my POV, cel shading appears to be a required visual feature of anime.

I see some things in that which look perhaps “visually influenced by anime some” but not “a reproduction of the visual characteristics of anime.”

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Yes, Shogo, the giant mecha game with anime characters on the box, anime posters in the base, transforming mecha, and references to mecha anime was going for a anime thing. Shogo is Monolith doing their take on Robotech.

Your argument wasn't whether they were inspired by Animu to develop the game, that doesn't stand in contention. You said that "they were going for" an Animu aesthetic and that "the team clearly had no fucking idea how to achieve" that. Then you compared it to an actual Animu game saying these are "two game(s) going for a anime style":

Aside from a few joke references in Shogo and a bit of 2D art I see nothing to indicate that they were going for an "Animu style" though and somehow horribly failed in either of the lengthy gameplay videos.

This post came 26 minutes after I posted a video of the developers talking about how they were going for a anime style, and that it’s based on the head of the studio wanting to make a game similar to a anime I’m going to guess he liked.

It’s also not some art. It’s all the art. The game has a fucking intro styled like an anime. The box art is made to look like anime stuff. I can’t tell. Are you doing a bit? Or is this just some bizarre mind break cope on discovery that Shogo is meant to be a take on anime stuff?

Also, Mega Man Legends isn’t anime. It, like Shogo, is inspired by anime. They’re both games going for a anime look. But neither started as an anime. It’s just Legends actually pulls off what it’s trying to pull off visually, and Shogo went about it in the wrong way.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

This reminds me more of other things than anime in the 21st century understanding of the Japanese art style.

Cel shading is generally a required characteristic. I’ve had engineers and tech artists build a real time 3D asset cel shader renderer for a project 14 years ago. The project was “building a game engine.” So, anime certainly influenced the design of that particular render mode, but it was just a feature of a subsystem of a game engine, so “anime” as an overall concept wasn’t relevant — just “what does it generally look like” — I don’t into anime, so from my POV, cel shading appears to be a required visual feature of anime.

I see some things in that which look perhaps “visually influenced by anime some” but not “a reproduction of the visual characteristics of anime.”

Just to be clear, that Mega Man game is not cel shaded. I don’t think Cel Shading is used for a video game until Jet Grind Radio on the Dreamcast, and that game comes a few years later.

Mega Man Legends is textured like any other game would’ve been at that time. It’s just more cartoony looking than, say, Capcom’s Resident Evil games from that time. One of the better looking games from that era that’s also going for a cartoonish anime look is the PSX Fist of the North Star game.

 

[Dexter]

Are you doing a bit? Or is this just some bizarre mind break cope on discovery that Shogo is meant to be a take on anime stuff?

I tried being nice and giving you the benefit of the doubt, but if you think the way Shogo looks is "Animu" (intentionally or not) there's either something deeply wrong with your visual cortex, you have never watched Animu before in your life or you need a good pair of glasses bad.

Here is my recommendation for some more early PC Anime games for you:

This post came 26 minutes after I posted a video of the developers talking about how they were going for a anime style, and that it’s based on the head of the studio wanting to make a game similar to a anime I’m going to guess he liked.

The video said no such thing, the bit you linked was someone making fun of the very female in-game models in the Screenshot that started this all and the other guy made a similar joke they likely would have intended with those giant googly eyes referring to said as "It's Animu, like who knows." and then stating that the Original pitch was to have a giant robot fly around a city like in an Anime, which again isn't at contention.

If you wanted to make the argument that a early Western 3D game was going for an "Animu style" and didn't quite hit it, there's a better and more obvious example, although many elements including the environments still look very Westernized:

 

[Dexter]

That's actually an interesting question upon further contemplation, what are some examples of games that intentionally tried to go for an Animu or Cartoon aesthetic during the early 3D graphics gaming period (as opposed to 2D or FMV) and failed to hit it due to technological hurdles or lack of skills? What are the first that managed it successfully?