Review GameTap praises MotB - 7/10

[cardtrick]

BTW, without the brilliant & progressive minds "making stuff up" and willing to risk appearing foolish, there would be no CRPG's.

Haha, that's a bold defense. I can make any claim I want, no matter how absurd, because lying is evidence of creativity; the very same creativity that has led to CRPGs. Genius.

 

[Keldorn]

BTW, without the brilliant & progressive minds "making stuff up" and willing to risk appearing foolish, there would be no CRPG's.

Haha, that's a bold defense. I can make any claim I want, no matter how absurd, because lying is evidence of creativity; the very same creativity that has led to CRPGs. Genius.

Actually, I am not a creative genius (yet).


I am merely in training.

 

[Volourn]

"Yet your smug, self-induced aura of pseudo-invincibility, your self-induced complex of elitist superiority and your self-induced myopic response to your own self-induced sense of infallibility is rather amusing...

...even if you DO rate 2 Worlds (slightly) lower than MotB."

You made something up, got caught, and that's your defense. L0L Now, that's entertaining!


P.S. Once again, Pot. kettle. Black.

 

[Keldorn]

"Yet your smug, self-induced aura of pseudo-invincibility, your self-induced complex of elitist superiority and your self-induced myopic response to your own self-induced sense of infallibility is rather amusing...

...even if you DO rate 2 Worlds (slightly) lower than MotB."

You made something up, got caught, and that's your defense. L0L Now, that's entertaining!


P.S. Once again, Pot. kettle. Black.

Meanwhile, I've apparently refueled Volourn's oblivious sense of infallibility...

...as if he's perpetually and permanently 100% accurate 100% of the time, especially when it comes to Rpg's.

LOL !!!

Meanwhile, the big picture above & beyond my initial post which is the target of Volourn's Laser (which merely employed the concept of "apparent" - which differs principally & conceptually from a claim of absolute certainty) escapes him.

IOW, by using the word apparently, one will usually verbally entice someone into defensive clarification. I've done precisely that. Rightfully so, I might add. And now Volourn's Laser will be aimed (via my shield of deflection) at his OWN comparative ratings of 2 Worlds & MotB.

By the time I'm done, Volourn will be wary about calling MotB overrated while simultaneously claiming that 2 Worlds is extremely underrated.


The big picture expands our horizons and enlightens our minds. While the laser merely zaps away at microscopic segments within...

 

[BloodyJellySubmarine]

Keldorn should be a politician cuz he uses all them thar big words, but I don't see them substantiating any point, or really stating anything other than, " Volourn a big butthead." I understand that it can be beneficial to express yourself in new and exciting ways, but why not call him a motherfucker and get it over with so we can all move on?
Now that I've released some frustration over not being able to think deeply/creatively because all I can think about is pussy and how it's the most destructive drug out dere, I'd like to say that I'd really like to play MOTB, though I am afraid that it will retard my "professional development."
Well, shit I don't feel any better. Don't hurt me Keldorn. Yes, I realize I don't contribute anything to the discussion and am waiting for a ban.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

Keldorn should be a politician cuz he uses all them thar big words, but I don't see them substantiating any point, or really stating anything other than, " Volourn a big butthead." I understand that it can be beneficial to express yourself in new and exciting ways, but why not call him a motherfucker and get it over with so we can all move on?
Now that I've released some frustration over not being able to think deeply/creatively because all I can think about is pussy and how it's the most destructive drug out dere, I'd like to say that I'd really like to play MOTB, though I am afraid that it will retard my "professional development."
Well, shit I don't feel any better. Don't hurt me Keldorn. Yes, I realize I don't contribute anything to the discussion and am waiting for a ban.

Oh, people don't get banned for not contributing around these 'ere parts. Next time, throw in a Nazi slogan or two.

I would also like to add that "Volourn is a big butthead" is a legitimate sentiment, even when accompanied by a certain verbiage.

And finally, indulge my personal curiosity: which words in Keldorn's post rate as "big" in your vocabulary? Thanks.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

...your self-induced complex of elitist superiority...

I was with you until this. Volourn isn't elitist, he's the people's dumbfuck.

 

[Keldorn]

...your self-induced complex of elitist superiority...

I was with you until this. Volourn isn't elitist, he's the people's dumbfuck.

So one can't be an elitist dumbfuck ? Just look at how he compares BG2 & PS:T for clues...

 

[Keldorn]

Keldorn should be a politician cuz he uses all them thar big words, but I don't see them substantiating any point, or really stating anything other than, " Volourn a big butthead." I understand that it can be beneficial to express yourself in new and exciting ways, but why not call him a motherfucker and get it over with so we can all move on?
Now that I've released some frustration over not being able to think deeply/creatively because all I can think about is pussy and how it's the most destructive drug out dere, I'd like to say that I'd really like to play MOTB, though I am afraid that it will retard my "professional development."
Well, shit I don't feel any better. Don't hurt me Keldorn. Yes, I realize I don't contribute anything to the discussion and am waiting for a ban.

Keldorn Loves You & Volourn.

This is animated, opinionated, often overstated & subjective discussion about GAMES. G-A-M-E-S = GAMES. The contrasting characters we play in this forum are exaggerated ROLES, often in dynamic contrast.

OOOps, I wasn't supposed to let the Lurkers know that !


Krumphles.

 

[BloodyJellySubmarine]

"And finally, indulge my personal curiosity: which words in Keldorn's post rate as "big" in your vocabulary? Thanks"

To be earnest, Keldorn is obviously a well-read individual, and I was just giving him some shit. Bigger words da betta.

Keldorn, you emphasize the word games in your last post so if we replace the word games with books does the statement still ring true? We're not talking about pong here. We're talking about "what can change the nature of man," nuclear bomb aftermath, false religions, and now MOTB, which is supposedly similar in nature to PST. Why are you exaggerating? Does it make life more exciting? Do you wish you lived a life of fiction?

 

[Helton]

You care enough to discuss this subject apparently.

I don't care about rating inflation. Larn ta red.

There is a difference between a decent feature that *could* have been better and a bad/poor feature that *should* have been better.

How about a decent feature that both *could* and *should* have been better? Is that different, too?

If you say so.

I do say so, now stop it all of you.

What exactly is the problem with the spirit meter? Other than the already mentioned alignment that upset your delicate sensibilities so.

The alignment adjustments were off. It encourages metagaming. It could have been better is exactly my point. You concede that and still pretend you're contradicting me, why?

 

[Vault Dweller]

You care enough to discuss this subject apparently.

I don't care about rating inflation. Larn ta red.

But that's what the debate is all about. The rating inflation condemns the game and ensures that Obsidian and publishers will think twice about making a game like that again.

What exactly is the problem with the spirit meter? Other than the already mentioned alignment that upset your delicate sensibilities so.

The alignment adjustments were off. It encourages metagaming. It could have been better is exactly my point. You concede that and still pretend you're contradicting me, why?

"Other than the already mentioned alignment...." Larn to red.

 

[Shannow]

The alignment adjustments were off. It encourages metagaming. It could have been better is exactly my point. You concede that and still pretend you're contradicting me, why?

"Other than the already mentioned alignment...." Larn to red.

I was alble to make my Bard1/RDD10/Fighter12/Dwarven Defender7 because of all those lawful points. So not only are the alignment changes not fully reasonable from a roleplaying point of view, but they also encourage metagaming (or at least mdle it easier). I think that was what Helton meant.
Apart from that I'll keep out of this discussion

 

[cardtrick]

I was alble to make my Bard1/RDD10/Fighter12/Dwarven Defender7 because of all those lawful points. So not only are the alignment changes not fully reasonable from a roleplaying point of view, but they also encourage metagaming

Nothing encourages that. That's just unholy.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Exactly.

 

[Helton]

Jesus fucking Christ, VD. Are you intentionally being dense or do you have a hangover or something?

But that's what the debate is all about. The rating inflation condemns the game and ensures that Obsidian and publishers will think twice about making a game like that again.

Your OP was about "rating inflation means mommie won't love us no more!", granted. My OP wasn't made to confirm or deny the existance of rating inflation, it was to point out how lame this general sentiment is, which several people have expressed. No one is allowed to criticize Mask of the Betrayer or we'll never get a decent RPG again. That's lame. That's bullshit. That's dishonest.

You didn't respond to that, you cut a sentence in half and addressed two entirely different points, neither of which much matters to me. So yes the debate should be about the above quoted -- not that it would be much of a debate -- but instead... I don't even know what you're trying to get at.

"Other than the already mentioned alignment...." Larn to red.

What was bad about Hitler other than trying to kill the Jews, conquer the world, and having an ugly fucking mustache?

The alignment adjustments were off. It encourages metagaming. It could have been better is exactly my point. You concede that and still pretend you're contradicting me, why?

You still pretend you're contradicting me, why?

 

[cardtrick]

What was bad about Hitler other than trying to kill the Jews, conquer the world, and having an ugly fucking mustache?

He was a crappy artist.

 

[fastpunk]

What was bad about Hitler other than trying to kill the Jews, conquer the world, and having an ugly fucking mustache?

He was a crappy artist.

He drew the first concepts of the VW Beetle... so he wasn't so crappy.

 

[Lumpy]

What was bad about Hitler other than trying to kill the Jews, conquer the world, and having an ugly fucking mustache?

If he lived today he'd probably use Hitler analogies, too.

 

[elander_]

Your OP was about "rating inflation means mommie won't love us no more!", granted. My OP wasn't made to confirm or deny the existance of rating inflation, it was to point out how lame this general sentiment is, which several people have expressed.

Strange, i read the same words and can understand it in a different way. Are you saying that making biased reviews that focus only on certain aspects of a game and ignore the rest is going to help make better games?

No one is allowed to criticize Mask of the Betrayer or we'll never get a decent RPG again. That's lame. That's bullshit. That's dishonest.

Buaaaaa buaaaa the codex doesn't allow people to criticize Mask of the Betrayer buaaaa buaaa.

 

[Vault Dweller]

My OP wasn't made to confirm or deny the existance of rating inflation, it was to point out how lame this general sentiment is, which several people have expressed. No one is allowed to criticize Mask of the Betrayer or we'll never get a decent RPG again. That's lame. That's bullshit. That's dishonest.

Nice try.

Pug made a long post stating that because of the idiotic complaints about the spirit meter, "he next time a company decides to implement an interesting, challenging and perhaps slightly controversial feature in their games they'll think twice about it."

He's absolutely right about it and to be fair, he does mention the alignment issue. That's when you started ranting.

Here is the big picture.

A) The spirit meter is an interesting feature
B) With all its flaws it adds a LOT to the game.
C) It's been butchered in every review, so it's safe to assume that Obsidian will not include unconventional features ever again.
D) Nobody says it's a flawless feature, but it's not as bad as the reviewers presented it.

"Other than the already mentioned alignment...." Larn to red.

What was bad about Hitler other than trying to kill the Jews, conquer the world, and having an ugly fucking mustache?

That's a dumb analogy. You make it sound like the entire purpose of the spirit-meter is to help you role-play your alignment better.

And now here is a sneak preview of my MotB review. Readers discretion is strongly advised.
....................

The Spirit-Meter thingy

I mentioned it only because it had been criticized in every review, ranging from "teh worst feature evar!" to "poorly implemented". Well, guess what? It's a pretty damn good feature and an excellent moron indicator. If you failed to understand this feature, odds are you a fucking moron. Sad, but true. Let's blame the clearly failed education system and the leniency toward degenerates in your homeland.

Anyway, a handy guide to the spirit-meter.

The game revolves around your ... uh... condition. Some call it a curse, some call it a gift. You are a spirit-eater. You consume spirits and sometimes souls (if you choose the evil path). Game mechanics-wise, your condition is represented via two meters: % level of your spirit energy (100% is good, 0% is dead) and your hunger level. The higher your hunger level is, the faster the spirit energy level drops. The lower your spirit energy level is, the heavier your stat penalties are.

- STAT PENALTIES?!! WHAT THE FUCK?!!! THIS GAEM SUCKS!!!!

Now that you understand the basic idea, here are the two different paths the game offers.

The good path: You consider your affliction a curse. You suppress your hunger, thus significantly slowing your need to feed. Eventually you acquire "good" feats like Eternal Rest, which restores your spirit energy without increasing your hunger. Soon (very soon) your hunger is pretty much at zero and you can focus on finding a way to get rid of the curse permanently.

The evil path: You realize that you've been given a power and that only a fool would give it up. You devour spirits and eventually learn to devour souls. You gain very powerful spirit essences this way and once you fully unleash your gift, you'll gain significant combat bonuses.

So, what does it all mean? It means that if you are a good person, you can pretty much ignore this feature by suppressing your hunger and enjoy what it adds to the dialogues. If you are an evil bastard, you can "go with the flow" and become very powerful through the extra spirit essences, feats, and abilities. However, all that power - and that's the brilliant part - comes with a price. You must constantly look for spirits to feed on to stay alive and quite a few times you'll be barely alive, unable to lift a sword. (How very Elric, btw). Compare that to Knights of the Old Republic, for example, where the difference between good and evil is purely cosmetic as both sides are equally balanced and it doesn't cost you anything to join the Dark Side.

The only problem with the spirit meter is the alignment adjustments. Whenever you make a spirit system related choice, you gain a few alignment points, becoming more Lawful, for example. Since the DnD alignment system is subject to many interpretations, some players will disagree with how the spirit system handles your alignment. I don't think it's a big deal, to be honest, but if you care a lot about this aspect, I'd suggest getting a mod that can remove and change the adjustment to fit your own alignment beliefs.

 

[Lumpy]

Some said the game became unplayable when playing on the evil side - is that true? Do you have to eat moderately to be able to survive? And are the rewards worth it?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Some said the game became unplayable when playing on the evil side - is that true?

No.

Do you have to eat moderately to be able to survive?

If you are evil, you have to eat a lot and often. Like I said, sometimes you'll be almost dead in "it's not easy" and "your powers come at a price" ways, but overall the game is well balanced in terms of giving you an opportunity to eat something.

And are the rewards worth it?

Yes. The rewards are spectacular (don't want to spoil anything). I rarely play evil characters but in this game it's a very enjoyable experience. Extremely enjoyable.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Now that you understand the basic idea, here are the two different paths the game offers.

The good path: You consider your affliction a curse. You suppress your hunger, thus significantly slowing your need to feed. Eventually you acquire "good" feats like Eternal Rest, which restores your spirit energy without increasing your hunger. Soon (very soon) your hunger is pretty much at zero and you can focus on finding a way to get rid of the curse permanently.

The evil path: You realize that you've been given a power and that only a fool would give it up. You devour spirits and eventually learn to devour souls. You gain very powerful spirit essences this way and once you fully unleash your gift, you'll gain significant combat bonuses.

So, what does it all mean? It means that if you are a good person, you can pretty much ignore this feature by suppressing your hunger and enjoy what it adds to the dialogues. If you are an evil bastard, you can "go with the flow" and become very powerful through the extra spirit essences, feats, and abilities. However, all that power - and that's the brilliant part - comes with a price. You must constantly look for spirits to feed on to stay alive and quite a few times you'll be barely alive, unable to lift a sword. (How very Elric, btw).

That sounds brilliant. Really ballsy of Obsidian too. Nice.

 

[Jasede]

If your words make even LS of all people try out a video-game (MOTB) again you have done much, VD.