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Review German Divinity 2 review

Discussion in 'News & Content Feedback' started by Monolith, Jul 25, 2009.

  1. Monolith Cipher

    Monolith
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    Tags: Divinity 2; Larian Studios

    Divinity 2 has been released in Germany and the feedback from the gaming media isn't bad at all. Here's <a href="http://www.gamersglobal.de/test/divinity-2-ego-draconis?page=0,0">one of the first reviews</a> - and here's a short summary thrown in for those who don't speak German:
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    <br>
    According to Gamersglobal Divinity 2 is a mixture of "Diablo-like action RPGs and 3D RPGs like Oblivion and Gothic" with a consistent game world, a huge amount of quests and "forced down your throat"-combat around every corner. They criticize enemy AI (some critters can't enter water, enemies lose interest when out of sight), controls (slightly slow mouse, too much clicking - minor stuff), graphics (lack of detail) and ranged combat, but hold the unrestricted and fast-paced character development, the huge game world and exploration in high regards. Quests are mostly combat heavy and/or of the fed ex-type, but several can be completed in multiple ways and can have different outcomes with light consequences. The story is nothing but an incentive for progression and can lack logic at times.
    <br>
    <br>
    Supposedly, you start off as Dragonkiller, become a dragon yourself later on and even get a big ass tower all for yourself with your very own necromancer who can create/forge an undead follower using body parts you found along the way.
    <br>
    <br>
    While they mention bugs, the game's playable, stable and received a 7.5 rating.
    <br>
    <br>
    Don't miss the video snippets showing the buggy AI, combat with NPCs and dragon fights.
    <br>
    <br>
    Spotted at: <a href="http://www.rpgwatch.com">RPG Watch</a>
     
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  2. Jasede Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Jasede
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    That sounds pretty fun.
     
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  3. Durwyn Prophet

    Durwyn
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    Just like stabbing yourself in balls with a rusty knife for some sounds like fun.

    I feel slightly dissapointed. Had my hopes too high I think. Still, I may torrent it or download demo to check it out personaly but it's not "must buy" anymore.
     
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  4. fatzuzake Novice

    fatzuzake
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    I am always thirsty for new rpg's. 2008 was quite a saharian year from this point of view. I could say that I am rpg-dehydrated. Expecting what everyone expects. Like G4, Risen, The Orb and the Oracle, Divinity2. Like a fool, I can't wait to drink from one of them . To drink them up again and again untill I am fully satisfied. Hopefully , none will be poisonous.
    And you tell my that those germans are drinking and enjoying Divinity2 , and maybe already peeing it? :cry: :cry:
    Arggghhhhhhh!!!! :x :x :x :x
     
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  5. fatzuzake Novice

    fatzuzake
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    Why disappointment? You didn't played it. I checked those videos were we are shown some bugs. I cannot understand german so I am not sure what they are exactly about. But bugs never stopped me from enjoying a good game. Or it is something else you are not pleased about the game?
     
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  6. Durwyn Prophet

    Durwyn
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    Only what I've read from the review. Combat heavy, fed-ex quests, buggy and twitchy port. Well, I don't know what I expected. Gah, a naive one I am :yoda:
     
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  7. The Wizard Educated

    The Wizard
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    oh boy, we're popping a cherry here. welcome to bitchtopia. :lol:

    meh, divinity 2.
     
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  8. Hoaxmetal Arcane

    Hoaxmetal
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    From videos/review I'd rather play first DD, DD2 just doesn't look right.
     
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  9. VonVentrue Cipher Patron

    VonVentrue
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    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    First of all, do you have even the slightest idea of what "a port" is? Such an overused word these days, apparently, some people have forgotten its meaning.
    The console version of this game isn't even out yet.
    As for Divinity 2 being "combat heavy" - did you play the original at all?
     
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  10. Durwyn Prophet

    Durwyn
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    Okay, so it's a consolizated cRPG, not a port. Still the core remains the same and share most of the flaws.

    And I've played DD. It was good for what it was, but I'd really want to see something more from those guys than: Let's make it like DD but in 3D and throw some random features like mind reading and shapeshifting into dragon. I liked DD but combat was actually the worst part of it. Less combat and more dialogues, c&c etc. is what I hoped for. And it's seems that it's more or less the same as in DD. Too bad, but I will continue my bitching when I'll try the demo or something
     
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  11. Monolith Cipher

    Monolith
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    I bought it, but I'm only about 5 hours into the game (including the tutorial town). It's been fun so far. I've yet to discover any bugs (except buggy AI, but I don't have to exploit it so it doesn't really matter), I've got no problems whatsoever with the controls, combat can be tough at times and invovles a small amount of tactics (whom to attack first, which skill to use, but basically pretty basic), quests, while often being fed ex, are more than that, usually demanding a choice with the world reacting to it and can be solved in multiple ways at times (mind reading comes in handy and is an interesting aspect - but costs a lot if you're of the curious type like me). And you're mentioning combat heavy, well, so far it's as combat heavy as Gothic 3, perhaps a little more (which means you have to run around less to get to the fights).

    But then, there are things that are bugging me. The world isn't all that consistent. Everybody and his dog has a journal of some sorts lying around waiting to be taken and nobody complains - same with anything else inside houses or containers (although the really important journals have been at least slightly hidden so far). When there's a famine just around the corner and soldiers start seizing your stocks and everybody is complaining it just seems out-of-the-way if you can waltz in and take everything that's edible. While quests can be slightly intricate, unfortunately dialogs aren't. NPCs provide quests and information, not much personallity is conveyd through them (unless the NPCs are exaggerated - or the synchronization shines, which it did a couple of times).

    But to be honest, I'm just at the beginnig, I've seen so little, the game didn't really have a chance to shine, so I expect it to get better. Let's just say that I was positively surprised by some of the quests, and since the rest isn't bad at all, that let me hope for more.
     
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  12. fatzuzake Novice

    fatzuzake
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  13. MetalCraze Arcane

    MetalCraze
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    I would be more surprised if the feedback from the public toilet calling itself gaming media was bad for once.
     
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  14. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    Yes, but German gaming media is almost laughably lenient. I point out that they gave this game a *7.5*. A lousy 7.5! Even frickin' Restricted Area got an 8.5. This game is worse than that?!? If Restricted Area is an 8.5, a 7.5 must be equivalent to pounding rusty nails through your scrotum.
     
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  15. shardspin Novice

    shardspin
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    It is hands-down the best action rpg of the last years. I have not yet played MotB (which is of course not an Action RPG) but I think it is the only real competitor for the title "best rpg of the last years".

    It got pretty good reviews in Germany because it is a good game. But the scores are relativly low compared to big budget titles because of virtually no hype.

    The game was also released relatively bug-free and for a title which is huge on c&c this is pretty surprising.

    I admit though that I am a bit biased because I have waited for a "dragon themed" rpg since Drakan (even if I never played that). But this game should really get a lot more attention around here since it is one of the few "mainstream" games which does alot of the things the codex wants right and you won't ever get those things again from developers and publishers unless you tell them you want this shit. So how do you do that you ask ? BY BUYING THE FUCKING GAME! And by buying it now full-price, because this is the time when it actually matters.

    If you played Divine Divinity and liked its writing (or its odd sense of humour) and the exploration parts, then I am pretty sure you will like this game too because it only improved on those parts (with the humour it is hard to tell of course, but I already had a few grins and I usually never laugh about video games). Dialogues are a lot shorter because of voice acting but it is definitely similar. I had doubts regarding the writing since the pre release material was not really descriptive of that but it turned out pretty good.

    So, what is with the people that have no clue what to expect because of no prior experience?

    I'll start with the story. The whole dragon thing is a bit generic, but I challenge you to come up with something containing dragons that is not in some way generic. And what cRPG was there really with a good story? Even PS:T sucks if you only analyze the story. So what is important in an cRPG regarding the story? The presentation of it! And how is it done in DD2 ? Pretty good actually. And the story is not as boring as it may seem at first. There a lot of small twists to the usual clichees. For example the big enemy's wrath has its cause in the harsh reaction by the shining good guy (hero) of DD1, who is raising him as a son, towards a corrupting influence. This is just an example of the "moral ambiguity". There are also times when taking the "good" quest solution is not really for the best of all but rather for the best of yourself (which might be pointed out to you only afterwards).

    Quests in general are pretty good and there are a lot of them, some are even hidden and you need to mindread someone to get the quest. As already mentioned there are c&c in side quests with immediate results, mostly different rewards but sometimes whole quest lines might be closed or opened up depending on your choices. How far the choices reach I can not tell yet because I am not very far into the game (only 10-15 hours). You might also be glad to hear that there is no quest compass, but there is a very nice way of reminding you where to go in the main quest (which is seriously one of the best features in a cRPG ever - bold statement, I know). So far I did only 2 or 3 real main quests, but there were no choices there and I do not expect there to be major changes to the storyline. But I'd personally prefer alot of choices in side quests to a few choices for the main story like in The Witcher.

    Some quests offer even more different solutions if you mindread the right people. Prior to release I was concerned about mindreading. I feared that the experience penalty would not be a big deal and that you could work around it by doing more quests or skilling wisdom. But it actually turned out that mindreading is pretty fucking expensive at most times even though the price is not fixed. So that sometimes you can judge depending on the price whether it is worth it or not, but even with this considered the ratio between wasted experience to useful information is around 3/2.5 : 1. This means that you might be seriously set back which forces you to do more quests to be able to stand a chance in fighting. (Of course you can totally undermine this system by saving and reloading but this would destroy a lot of potential fun).

    If you like exploring in an cRPG then this game is definitely for you. The world is hand-crafted and you really get the feeling that it is a labour of love. There is also a lot to explore and exploring is often rewarded. Monsters don't spawn, so cleared places stay clear. But this also means that the presence of monsters might hinder your exploration, so that some areas are in a way more linear than they might look. But I might be getting the wrong impression here, because I spent more than 50-60% of my skill points so far on non-combat skills and fighting is pretty deadly for me. But it is definitely not easy in the beginning. The different skills are pretty interesting and it heavily impacts how you play the game. In DD1 there were some skills which were totally useless (for example summoning because the monsters did not follow you around) but most skills here seem to be pretty usable even if most are not very powerful on their own. Overall, character growth is pretty fun and I might replay just because of this alone - and its really hard to get me motivated to play games these days at all.

    Combat has a few flaws. The biggest being that you sometimes lose the focus of an enemy which means that your hits are going nowhere. But I like the combat since it is really fun to see how your character build plays. It is a hack'n'slash, so there is a lot of clicking involved but the system is still miles ahead of the Witcher and I prefer it to alot of other H'n'S'es mainly because of the skills and the system in which you can freely choose anything you want without being restricted by class decisions. And really: was there ever an Action RPG with good combat besides Gothic 1 and 2 (and even that sucked) ? Don't listen to mainstream reviews criticizing combat, or do you recall them criticizing combat in any real mainstream rpg where it really sucked?

    So what is actually bad about the game ?
    Even though I wrote there are relatively few bugs you have to consider that this is a c&c game, so it is pretty natural that there will be bugs. And I already found a nasty one myself, but it is a completely optional side story (not even a real quest) and you only run into it if you are exploring everything. But I'd still advice having different save states.

    There is talk that the dragon combat is lame. Frankly, who cares? It is not like 50% of the game consists of being a dragon or something. I am at least 10 hours into the game and I expect I will not get the dragon form until at least 5-10 hours more.
    Seriously, what do these people expect? It seems you cannot attack ground targets, but being able to would totally fuck up balance since spawns are hand-placed and your dragon form levels up separately.

    Graphics are not top of the line. So what? Some places are still pretty beautiful because of their design.

    Animations are somewhat sluggish but there is already a confirmation that this will be fixed in a patch.

    With the new patch 1.01 you get a minimap showing enemies and main quest locations. While quest locations are not a big deal because you already know or see the location and quest markers are only for main quests, being able to see where enemies are in a dungeon takes a lot of the surprise away. But I suspect that this will become optional (if there will be demand).

    I do not think this is a bad thing but there is no day and night cycle. Instead the level of lightness is dictated by the location. As a result the world seems to be more static to people used to these effects but it also gains a lot in terms of atmosphere. I personally don't think day and night cycles are must-haves for cRPGs because most games actually lose a lot of atmosphere regarding NPC reaction. While they may have day and night routines for each NPC a lot of those games have NPCs which have no problem waking up for a complete stranger coming in during the night and thereby destroying a lot of credibility of the setting (Gothic, The Witcher). And if they don't wake up you are annoyed because you need to rest for the NPC to wake up. There is really nothing to be gained by having such a cycle in my opinion.

    Another problem is that almost all quests end with the choice between "Gimme money" and "I'm an hero!". Of course in most cases you get more choices before this "final choice" but some quests do not have any other choices (despite the one to take it or not, which also has consequences sometimes). But this is a matter of taste.

    The game has achievements and there is a console version coming out. Oh noes....

    The game is a labour of love and if RPGs ever meant anything to you and you want the genre to improve then get the fuck out and buy it (or order it online if you are too lazy for that like me - I got the collectors edition and it is pretty cool)
     
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  16. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    Knowing that you think that a sentient planet core is reasonable, taking your "review" seriously is just bit difficult, shardspin.
     
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  17. shardspin Novice

    shardspin
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    Knowing that you are not able to judge material out of context completely on its own makes taking you seriously also a bit hard. If you'd actually bother to think about what I wrote you'd also know that I never said or meant a sentient core is reasonable.

    Just for the record: I might also quote a geophysics professor who said just recently: "If you look at all this [referring to the lecture], then you might think that we do not actually know anything about the earth. And then you would be right"
     
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  18. Morgoth Arcane Patron

    Morgoth
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    Good review, I actually agree with shadspin. The game's pretty hard at the beginning, you get your ass handed over to you by two goblins if you're not careful. But that changes later. I'm now lvl 25, put some 20 hours or so into the game, and it's through and through fantastic and motivating.
    Dragon fights are okay-ish. Nothing too fancy. The later areas are designed to put both human form and dragon form into mind. So you have to use both forms to solve your quests, and there are no advantages to play the dragon for the sake of being unfair.
     
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  19. Mr. Teatime Liturgist

    Mr. Teatime
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    From experience I imagine the chance of the English translation being good is around 10% :/
     
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  20. shardspin Novice

    shardspin
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    Nah, I already noticed a joke made for the English language which does not really translate well into German.

    I guess this is a result of a company based in a multilanguage country like Belgium or of the fact that their language is a bastard child of so many different ones (like Dutch).

    And to be honest I only bought the German version because I know the game would be published by dtp which is known for good localizations. I am a firm supporter of the original language = best language to be experienced in idea for every medium but with a Belgian company this is kind of problematic.
     
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  21. Joe Krow Erudite

    Joe Krow
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    How is the English translation progressing shardspin?
     
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  22. shardspin Novice

    shardspin
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    I am not paid by either of the two companies involved if that is what you are implying.
    I am personally not very fond of the German voice overs even though a lot of the people who played the game really like them. Its not Two-Worlds-English-version bad but not that great in my opinion either.
     
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  23. Monolith Cipher

    Monolith
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    I'd say too much hype. Every week a Divinity 2 week is simply too much, people lose interest - I know I did. Anyway, from what I've seen I think the scores are quite fitting - although I can't say I'm far into the game.


    Eh, define pretty good. Because what I've seen so far isn't. Usually characters are either overdone or bland. When they show personality it's either in their journals or when interacting with other NPCs (the latter being quite well done), dialogs are simply functional - most of the time you've got just two options, and often they lead to the same outcome (cosmetic choices). I just became a Drachenritter and I'm trying to enter that huge mage tower while exploring the countryside - will it get better?

    First of all, nobody is forced to make a story centered on dragons. Then, you're telling me PS:T sucks if you analyze the story. If that's the case, what extent of suckage do we have when analyzing the story of Divinity 2?And Damian, the big enemy, might have an intriguing backstory (and so far that's been one mighty "might"), he still ends up being a chliche fantasy villain. And the presentation? One MacGuffin following another - not bad per se, but I didn't catch myself giving one single fuck about the story. Become a dragonkiller, ask about that, kill this, don't kill that, become a dragonknight, get in there - the first 10 hours in a nutshell.


    Here I agree. Quests are well designed - main quests as well, in that I usually end up in the right place at the right time (well, the latter more or less, as the game waits for you to appear). And mindreading can indeed add a lot, although it can come down to paying that 800 XP instead of running through half a valley, fighting through some tombs and thus getting a shitload of XP.

    The only difference I've seen so far is ranged vs. close combat, although ranged combat usually ends up being close and personal when the first enemy closes in. I don't see any differences between a caster and a ranger here, but I might be wrong, as I haven't played much as ranger and even less as a caster. But that's what it seems to be like, judging from the game mechanics. Combat skills are important as they increase the damage you inflict as well as damage resistance - attributes influence resistances and make better equipment available (items have minimum requirements). New skills get available when you rise in levels (the only requirement - I'd prefer something more complex).

    I don't agree with the miles ahead of The Witcher part. At the beginning, fights can be really tough, even filler combat. That's about the only thing that's better than combat in The Witcher. With the little tactics and possibilities you've got Divinity, I prefer The Witcher's reaction based combat system. In Divinity 2 fights usually end up in a health potion overdose. The only real options you've got is choosing an enemy, drawing single enemies out of packs, taking cover because enemy archers and mages can be a bitch, spamming the skills you've got, clicking, clicking, clicking and drinking health potions when health goes down below 20%. Might get better when better skills get available (more stun-attacks, the like). Right now, the only thing that's keeping fights interesting is the difficulty - but supposedly the difficulty will sag as soon as you get your undead follower. What about combat do you like?

    The game world, imho. A lot of whiny NPCs, some of the geography doesn't make much sense (goblin village right next to the town, blocking the only way to the mine - and a whole battalion sitting tight behind the rampart), a self-sustaining village in a valley with basically no fields to till, a famine next door but nobody complaining about the player stealing everything and going through all chests and barrels, unpickable doors that need a specific key to be opened, unhostile NPCs can't be attacked , NPCs lack topics that simply would make sense (a century old alchemist that took the form of a tree you can find could have a lot to tell - and all he can do is...make potions? - compare that to MotB), and a lot more. Mostly a case of "this would be so much better if...", but it's what's bugging me the most.

    To be fair, you can be a prick past the "Gimme money" quite often, taking the money and ratting out somebody anyway. And sometimes it's just a choice between two factions, which affects your reputation with some NPCs (and, that's often the only real consequence, affects merchant prices).

    Mind you, it's still a good game, so far easily deserving the 7.5 - but I haven't seen even 1/4 of it. It can get much better or much worse for all I know.
     
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  24. shardspin Novice

    shardspin
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    Just look at the offfical web page of DD2. There are not even gameplay scenes, all you get is pretty accurate text description of the game. I don't know about you but I prefer a company which actually delivers what they promise instead of twisting the truth through gameplay videos. Hype also means ad revenue for magazines and it is accepted as a fact around here that this equals good scores in reviews. I was just trying to explain why the game has such a low score (in my opinion).

    My description was meant for people who know and liked DD1's writing (specifically because some people asked for an opinion on that in another thread and I tried to reassure them). Well, the writing might not be everyone's cup of tea because it focusses alot on meta-game humour. But it fits the setting and often ridicules fantasy cRPG clichees (for example the pig farm).
    I personally never found anything interesting in journals regarding the NPC's personalities, for me it was just a spelled out description of the character as opposed to drawing conclusion from the dialogue alone. Cosmetic choices ? Are you kidding me?
    Did you try to find the bandits camp? Did you always follow Richard's orders?
    Yes, there are quests with only one possible solution but it is not like every quest has one solution only.
    Do you mean the mage's temple or the big tower? Different things, I am currently heading towards the temple and I was having a blast so far.

    As for funny dialogue:
    I laughed my ass off when I could try to elaborate on the philosophical matters of the typical bandit threat "Money or I'll take your life!". This seemed somehow familar, so it might be that another RPG already did something like this (Baldur's Gate or DD1 maybe?) but I think this gives a very good impression of the kind of humour you will find in DD2.


    Yeah I know, nobody is forced. Blablabla... I already said that I waited for such a game a long time and it is not like the whole thing is completely unoriginal - there are a lot of neat touches to the usual generic material. Also comparison to P:ST:
    wake up, read tattoos, look for journal, find pharod, look for journal AGAIN - first few hours of P:ST ; one MacGuffin after another - really what is the point, cRPGs are bound to have a structure like this.
    Did I mention that the story behind Damian is not even told in the game itself at that point? Clichee villain ? He is the fucking incarnation of evil (this is from hearsay only, I did not play DD1 to the end myself). In the beginning he is supposed to be perceived as a typical clichee villain. I guess you did not meet Lovis yet because this encounter puts a small spin on everything again (a decadent ghost who reveals a very atypical solution to the typical big enemy problem).

    As opposed to the unbelievably high amount of different choices regarding combat in The Witcher this sounds really truly awful.

    You also just reminded me how bad the TW's combat really was. FUCKING REACTION BASED PATTERN FOLLOWING. I totally forgot about that.
    If you want to react to the same pattern in the same way the whole game then this is your choice. But when I compare this to DD2's fast paced action combat where I must react to the situation at hand, something which is at most times totally not necessary in TW, DD2 easily wins.

    I like about the combat that my selection of skills determines how I can or must play the game. I have a very similar build to that of Morgoth who also seems to use the healing ghost as a backup. It might be possible that this is the only build which is fun to play but I somehow doubt that. Because I can imagine that a mix of a fighting character with some spell casting abilities and thus the ability to dish out huge amounts of damage in a shorter time might be just as satisfying as relying on brute force alone as I currently do. (This is actually pretty similar to the build I used in DD1, so I have pretty good reasons to believe that I am correct with my assumption).

    I prefer the class-free approach to generic skill trees, but that is a matter of taste of course. I personally don't like Diablo 2's skill system and its combat at all, but I am satisfied with DD2. Why ? Because combat is a lot less important. I see it as a quick way to gain some experience points and to get some quests done along the way while exploring is the main focus. So I don't have very high expectations towards it. With Diablo 2 on the other hand combat is the main part of the game and for a whole game clicking someone to death with whatever spell effects is just not enough for me.

    But still, feel free to name more cRPGs with "fun" combat. Even with tactical ones it is not really a fun system on its own but only becomes so because it is heavily influenced by the choices you make in your character design. And this is true for DD2 as well as far as I am concerned.

    Oh please, are you trying to deliberately disagree with me here or what?
    Do you even realize that the whiny NPCs are ridiculing clichees by being a contrast or a caricature? And if you want to go down the "logical flaws in cRPGs" road, have fun taking that long walk alone. The alchemist you mention is also a hidden quest and a nod to players of the original. And by the same logic: why would the tree have any agenda to share his secrets with a complete outsider? I suspect that you might later run into a more talkative form of this one. I was actually pretty surprised by this because I was already finished with the village and only came back because I needed apples.


    So you are defending the game, but you still wont acknowledge that you might close or open up different quest lines depending on your choices? Or maybe you just did not notice it yet?

    Oh, I just saw you are from Poland. Do you speak German on a native level? It might be that you lost a lot in translation if you do not.
     
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  25. Jasede Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Jasede
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    23,304
    I seriously cannot understand all this shardspin hate. He is the best new poster in a while and everything he says is reasonable.

    shardspin, don't despair. It always sucks to be the new guy.

    Edit: What I mean is, ignore Lesiforae, she's a tranny.
     
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