Deus Ex GMDX: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v9 Released!

[CyberP]

Ha. You're going to have to do some intense sneaking. 10hp and no resources? Sounds like you've put yourself in an end-game scenario. I'd recommend reloading a previous save and doing it better if you truly have nothing.
The best thing you can do in this situation is sneak. If spotted, hide and wait for them to cool down. Rinse and repeat. I doubt you'll manage to survive though as you need some resources for this level, what with all the MiBs and such. Ghosting is possible but it won't be easy at all without any tools.

Yeah just running is the easiest option vs Simons, zig-zag movement all the way to the door to abuse his aiming calculations.

As for the door damage threshold, you probably got confused by the inventory descriptions: the inventory weapon descriptions display the damage information (Damage = x (+y) = z) shows the damage of all projectiles combined. So the plasma rifle shows 60 damage, but it is actually 20 * 3 (as plasma rifle fires three separate bolts).

Both of these issues are addressed in v8.0:

-All AI that use projectile weapons (rockets, Greasel spit, grenades etc) have an element of randomization to whether or not they will use target leading to predict your future position when moving. In other words, when you are moving sometimes they will fire straight at your position, other times they will attempt to predict where you will be when firing their projectiles. This change makes their attacks a little less predictable & abusable (before you could strafe left/right repeatedly to abuse the AI calculations).
-Weapons that fire multiple projectiles per shot no longer display the damage value of all projectiles multiplied, but rather the value of a single projectile.

As a result Simons will be even harder, and weapon info will be comparable to door damage threshold.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

If you are gonna do anything to buff Simmons, I would suggest nerfing him in other ways, because he is already retardo OP. I would guess a lot of people quit the game at that point unless they are specced to counter him (the plasma protection augmentation, etc). I am not a fan of these insane difficulty boss fights, they are just an exercise in persistence and frustration. Buffing regular Deus Ex AI is great, but if anything, the ridiculously OP enemies such as Simmons and MIBs should be nerfed a bit in terms of how much damage they can take. I can destroy a military bot with a single LAM, but takes 2 LAMs for an MIB. That's just silly and does not in any way lead to enjoyable gameplay.

On the bright side, I got myself out of my 10 hitpoint predicament in that stop the nuclear missile mission. Took a while to figure it out, because not only was my general health at next to nothing, but my arms too, so other than the glock which had the laser scope, i couldn't shoot anything straight either. No bioelectric energy, no recharges, a single lockpick, no EMPs or explosives. I did sneak around for a while, took out the sniper there and the patrol, then baited the AI inside one of the locked houses to come out and investigate, which opened that door. Then I snuck in and prodded a several people in there. Eventually got into the silo, but I had no credits either, so couldn't save and then died. But by then I knew how to do it, repeated everything, found a repair bot and used the healing augment to get back to full health and found a bunch of ammo around the level. Then cleared a room of mj12 troopers and found some money too, and was able to save. Wheeeeeeew... Wasn't sure I'd make it through that...

Oh, also, some observations about weapons and ammo. That bug we talked about before with the sniper rifle (the reticle being wide and it still hitting right in the center), I think that's true with all weapons actually. On this level, with my arms almost dead, most my weapons were maxed out expanded, and yet as long as I aimed the center crosshair at the enemy, I'd hit every time. I actually reloaded after that, cause it felt like cheating. Happened with the crossbow and the submachine gun, as well as the sniper rifle.

Another point, the rubber bullets for the shotgun, they are OP as all hell. I used them to kill those 2 giant 4 legged monsters on the Sea Lab level (still took like 12 shots per each, but other ammo was barely damaging them), you can kill most things with 2 shots with that ammo, which seems weird. I can see it working well against unarmored humans, but beyond that? You can also collect them back after shooting them, so they are a never ending ammo as well. They also even kill spider bots.

Flame darts for the crossbow are also bugged with those 4 legged mutants I think. One flame dart sets them on fire and makes them run around until they die. That's not intended, is it?

 

[CyberP]

"I am not a fan of these insane difficulty boss fights, they are just an exercise in persistence and frustration."

I beg to differ. I find them too easy, and players are often whining about them being too easy too.
All of it is irrelevant when you can just run away though!

MiBs and a couple others have had minor nerfs in v8.0, yet bosses get buffed.

On the bright side, I got myself out of my 10 hitpoint predicament in that stop the nuclear missile mission. Took a while to figure it out, because not only was my general health at next to nothing, but my arms too, so other than the glock which had the laser scope, i couldn't shoot anything straight either. No bioelectric energy, no recharges, a single lockpick, no EMPs or explosives. I did sneak around for a while, took out the sniper there and the patrol, then baited the AI inside one of the locked houses to come out and investigate, which opened that door. Then I snuck in and prodded a several people in there. Eventually got into the silo, but I had no credits either, so couldn't save and then died. But by then I knew how to do it, repeated everything, found a repair bot and used the healing augment to get back to full health and found a bunch of ammo around the level. Then cleared a room of mj12 troopers and found some money too, and was able to save. Wheeeeeeew... Wasn't sure I'd make it through that...

Nice.

Another point, the rubber bullets for the shotgun, they are OP as all hell. I used them to kill those 2 giant 4 legged monsters on the Sea Lab level (still took like 12 shots per each, but other ammo was barely damaging them), you can kill most things with 2 shots with that ammo, which seems weird. I can see it working well against unarmored humans, but beyond that? You can also collect them back after shooting them, so they are a never ending ammo as well. They also even kill spider bots.

May nerf.

One flame dart sets them on fire and makes them run around until they die. That's not intended, is it?

Yes, that's why they are so rare. You disapprove?

 

[Icewater]

I'm up to the beginning of the airfield mission now, so far so good. One thing though is that the stamina system can make it really annoying to explore areas. What about making normal run cost nothing and then adding a sprint function? Or perhaps just increasing the stamina cost of other actions to compensate?

 

[CyberP]

Upgrade your athletics to increase stamina. It is the cheapest skill. Aqualung boosts stamina regeneration in addition to the swimming modifier.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

One flame dart sets them on fire and makes them run around until they die. That's not intended, is it?

Yes, that's why they are so rare. You disapprove?

Just seems a little strange from a realism perspective, and also their description makes it sound like they are mostly meant for lighting up dark areas, but I guess as long as they are rare it's not a big deal.

Since you've added some new weapons in the past (UMP machine pistol, USP, etc), do you have any other plans to add them in the future? It's probably a lot of work with the modeling and textures and animations and all that, but if that ever comes up, a more powerful pistol/revolver would be awesome. The glock is very useful and so are the other pistols, but they really lose their oomph in the latter portions of the game, as enemies get much stronger. I still use them for stealth kills but if it's a situation that involves a chance of actual combat, shotguns and sniper rifles are much better. For people who prefer pistols, would be great if there was a higher end pistol with more stopping power but also certain shortcomings to balance it out. Something like the Python in Bloodlines, or Ranger Sequioia in New Vegas. It could do a lot more damage than the Glock, but have a slower firing rate, more recoil, and be incompatible with many mods (like scope, silencer, laser, etc).

 

[CyberP]

Yeah the usual deagle./.44 Magnum would be cool. Maybe a reasonably futuristic model even. It could cause a balancing problem however.

Pistols are great, with skills and mods. Even the MiB cannot take much if fully upgraded.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah the usual deagle./.44 Magnum would be cool. Maybe a reasonably futuristic model even. It could cause a balancing problem however.

Balance should be ok if you make it fire slowly and have lots of recoil, and be loud. It would be a sort of either kill the bad guy in 1 headshot or die waiting for your next shot kind of weapon that would bring all the nearby enemies down on you.

Modders made a lot of cool futuristic revolver mods for F3/NV, models, textures, etc would it be possible to re-use those in GMDX? If it's technically feasible and saves you time, you could ask for their permission to use the assets. I don't know if you will like them but check some of these out:

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/3396/?

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/m...ajax/modimages/?id=46726&user=1&gid=130&pUp=1

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/m...ajax/modimages/?id=55826&user=1&gid=130&pUp=1

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/m...ajax/modimages/?id=13141&user=2&gid=120&pUp=1

 

[CyberP]

It is perhaps possible to downscale and convert. It would require someone who is specialized in those skills though, and I haven't seen any truly diversely-talented artists active in the DX community. There's very few artists at all.

I'm not a fan of those visual designs though.

"Balance should be ok if you make it fire slowly and have lots of recoil, and be loud."

Ammo balancing would be the primary issue.

 

[Jaedar]

Would it be possible to make the deagle use say, 3 pistol shots per firing, and then explaining it away with some technobabble?

 

[CyberP]

Possible, certainly. Maybe I should just turn the USP into a three burst fire weapon.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Possible, certainly. Maybe I should just turn the USP into a three burst fire weapon.

Just make it fire sniper rifle rounds if making/placing new ammo types is a real pain. Didn't that pistol in fallout fire rifle ammo?
The shorter barrel would prevent it from being as accurate as the rifle, but size would still give a lot of stopping power.

I just finished off the Area 51 Sector 3 level. My god, it was such a pain. I ran out of credits again, so I couldn't save in that level at all, had to basically do a perfect run from beginning to finish, which was a little difficult considering the herds of bullet sponge aliens, men in black, snipers, greasels and other miscellaneous crap floating around. Must've done a gazillion runs before one finally worked. Every possible thing that could've gone wrong at some point did in that level. One of the bots that Helios releases to protect you from MJ12 commandos turned invisible, and I shot it accidentally while trying to hit the commando behind it. The bot turned on me and tracked me throughout the level, finally killing me. I died like 4 times jumping from one ledge to another and just missing it by inches cause I was doing in on auto-pilot since this was like 560th run. One of the techs turned on me cause I kept shooting the alien near him 40 times, and I couldnt get the door code. I sidestepped to dodge a sniper's bullet, fell off a ledge, fell down 3 floors, survived, sighed with relief, realized I landed on a spiderbot, and died to his electricity. Hid behind a fence to escape crossfire between greasels and snipers, turned around and saw the giant carcharadon standing there taking a bite of my head. I've done it all folks.

The funnest part of that level is getting the MJ12 troopers to fight againt aliens. I baited them with sounds and gunfire to where the aliens were, and then laughed my ass off on the floor above while they deep fried each other below. Revenge, sweet revenge.

 

[CyberP]

Heh. Some people really have trouble with the mod, but I want it to be clear to those that aren't after a challenge that easy difficulty and all the rest still exists, just scaled up a little. If you usually pick normal and find that difficulty to be enough, pick easy instead for example.
This mod only places partial focus on challenge. The other things should be desirable regardless since this mod basically perfects all of Deus Ex's flawed systems and adds a ton of suitable new stuff, some of which go unnoticed due to the sheer depth of the game. Like the game itself, there's stuff you would only find/notice in GMDX after many years & replays down the line.

Anyway, I still don't have a clue when v8.0 will be released but it won't be more than half a year. I'll probably drop the modding after that, but only because it isn't a self-supporting time sink. I fear I will end up a popamole dev afterwards, if only as a result of no other options.
Maybe that steam paid mods nonsense should have been allowed to succeed, as long as there was some way to filter the low quality crap and to prevent business practices from interfering with true quality, just as it does with the professionals.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Why don't you make your own game? I mean since you modified the shit out of Deus Ex, I imagine you can code. Hook up with an artist on some game dev forum, and either hook up with a designer/ideas guy or come up with your own ideas. Make something with budget level graphics but solid deep gameplay. That's probably the best way to make some money while still doing satisfying work. There are tons of potential great games that could be made that major developers aren't making.

 

[CyberP]

"and either hook up with a designer/ideas guy or come up with your own ideas"

Whoa, what are you implying? "Hook up with a designer"? Design is where I excel, I believe. Although I am a specific type of designer, I've always looked at other games and obsessed over how I can perfect them, every detail small and large. Whole new fresh visions from scratch however? Not really. I guess I fill the currently unfilled "editor" role of the gaming world. I believe I can "perfect" a lot of games, ignoring the degrees of subjectivity involved in it all.
I'm probably similar to Sawyer in that regard, since all his games in a leading role have been modifications of existing and well established concepts.

Design is ultimately what truly separates all games at the end of the day, and it is what separates GMDX from every other mod. Execution matters too of course, but good execution is pretty much expected by default.

Anyhow, it is my desire to go indie, but a relatively large team is preferable. My programming skills probably aren't adequate (two years or so is baby years by programming standards), working digitally rather than all together in a rented work space is bullshit for a number of reasons. No budget to speak of (if I earned any money off of GMDX that would set me up for a nice start, huh).
Then there's the problem that I'm a stubborn shithead in that I don't really want to work on a game style I have no interest in.
I occasionally do seek job roles at indie studios but there seems to be a significant trend towards certain types of games at the moment: mobile games and games with procedurally generated level design (urgh).

If It really comes down to it and popamole is what I must do, then it will only be with the intention of funding a future making the art I do care for.

"Whole new fresh visions from scratch however? Not really"

Well, this isn't exactly true. I do have my "dream game", and do fantasize over other concepts. True originality is getting harder and harder to do these days also. For example, there's only so many camera perspectives you can have, which sets the basis for a lot of the game's style. You can't have upside down camera perspective, where your camera is following the player but pointed up at the sky.
It's very tough to live up to the old masters of the '90s in that regard, when everything truly was fresh and new.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Alright, I finished it! Hardcore mode, hardcore+ option enabled the entire game, shit I feel like I won the Nobel Prize, haha. With those 2 things on, it's the hardest game I played in a long time. Took about 28 hours total and I took the dark age option at the end, Tong's voice fading out "if you survive, find us" is pretty awesome. They were probably thinking sequel with that. Poor Ion Storm.

I kinda want to try another play-through now, armed with my knowledge. Thinking stealthy pacifist run, that's gotta be better than Deus Ex's combat. Gonna give in and get the lightsaber too for boss battles and other unavoidables. Oh and plasma and ballistic defense augs for those annoying men in black and commandos.

As far as your mod, you really should separate the AI and balance stuff which is just great all around, from the save point system, which is much more questionable for different people. Ideally, I think you should add an option in settings for save-points, same as for save point credit cost now, and then people who want that can activate it. Right now it's a tough choice, because I want the best AI, but not necessarily the save points, and they are tied together. Also, I would lower save point credit cost a bit.

 

[CyberP]

Would you like v8.0 in progress?

"Gonna give in and get the lightsaber too for boss battles and other unavoidables."

You can complete the game without killing anyone, with the exception of Anna. You don't have the DTS at that point either.

"you really should separate the AI and balance stuff which is just great all around"

There really isn't much exclusive to hardcore: the save points, less ammo, A few AI buffs (not a whole lot), no weapon auto-reloading and in v8 stamina drains faster + auto run is disabled, you must use shift to run.

which is much more questionable for different people.

Questionable for people who fail to see the value in it. You pointed out one valuable aspect yourself: "Hardcore mode, hardcore+ option enabled the entire game, shit I feel like I won the Nobel Prize, haha. With those 2 things on, it's the hardest game I played in a long time."

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Would you like v8.0 in progress?

Sure.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I just noticed something weird. This is with v7, on the first level, statue of liberty. The NPCs have their patrol patterns, but sometimes they just stand there, unless you look at them or get close to them. I've noticed this before, as it seems to be a scripting behavior, where they will start their standard behavior only when the player gets close enough, but this is a little different in that even after they start walking somewhere, you hide nearby waiting for them to pass by in their pattern, and they never come, until you actually come out and look for them, at which point their patrolling behavior kicks in again. That's just weird.

 

[CyberP]

Vanilla behaviour. Having all NPCs always patrolling would be processor-intensive. Some are always patrolling, but most aren't. Since it is 2015 maybe I can go over the NPCs and allow more to always patrol.

 

[CyberP]

Minor update:

-Throwing knives now deflect off of decorative objects and can thus be picked up again.
-Silent running now reduces fall damage (as in Deus Ex: Invisible War) to be a more worthy choice vs Speed enhancement.
-Dogs now have a "bump attack" similar to karkians, making them actually pose a realistic threat 1v1 (because they don't have to stand still to attack).
-A horde of level design improvements.
-Various new special effects and tweaks.
-The new weapon holstering behavior (where the toolbelt remembers what weapon you had when holstering/equipping weapons) now also highlights the currently indexed weapon in the toolbelt. Not sure if this explanation is understandable to anyone, but have faith that it is of course incline.
-The combat speed aug now increases draw/holster speeds of the nanokey ring and multitools/lockpicks, so basically everything is faster to holster/draw with the aug now.
-Grenades no longer explode upon contact with a corpse (Vanilla bugfix)
-Fixed a vanilla bug where augmentations could still be activated and abused for a split second without bioenergy, for example you could spam speed enhancement whilst running/jumping, spam cloak, vision enhancement to see through walls etc. What happened was the game turned on augmentations, then checked for bioenergy, then deactivated all augs if the player had no bioenergy. Now your augs don't even turn on if you have no energy.
-So many pedantic tweaks that I don't bother to log.

And for Icewater: fixed a number of pita GMDXv8 bugs I discovered which would have been in the build I sent you, so if you want updating let me know.

Nothing particularly interesting, it's mostly been solely bugfixes and perfectionist tweaking the past five or so days.

 

[CyberP]

New Perk System (WIP):

Fucking UI coding.

 

[Jaedar]

Perks eh?

How are perks different from the stuff you get from upgrading skill regularly? Or is it just another way to present the information?

 

[CyberP]

A number of things:

I should mention beforehand that perks will require skill points.

-Currently as it stands if you upgrade a skill you are forced to get ALL the benefits of said skill. Generally you do want them all, but this will separate that aspect, add many more choices with lower skill costs.
-Perks will be cheap (ranging from 50-500 skill points or so, depending on the significance of the perk). Skill costs themselves will be reduced accordingly (generally by how much the governed perks cost tallied).
-Skill costs being reduced will also mean you can have more skill choice too, if you so choose. "Do I focus on x skill and its perks, or do I ignore those perks completely and just focus on skills?".
-Replayability, playstyle depth. It goes without saying that more build choices equates to more of both these things.
-It will also allow for more new empowering abilities in general, such as negation of the standing still accuracy bonus reset that you suggested, a Medicine-governed perk improving the effectiveness of biocells, one that improves the effectiveness of food and/or how much you can eat, increase the throwing range of grenades and throwing knives, no blurry vision when drowning and so on.
-Balancing. It will be enhanced further, providing I get it right (I will).
-lastly, as you say: another way to present information. Currently the skill descriptions are a bit messy, with each skill level giving you all these many benefits with sub-optimal presentation.

Edit: stuff.

 

[Jaedar]

Oh ok. So for example, you could get the heavy weapon no penalty to movement or reduced inventory slots without ranking up for damage/reload/accuracy?

I foresee great minmaxing