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Deus Ex GMDX: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v9 Released!

Jazz_

Arcane
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,078
Location
Sea of Ubiquity
''Exactly at the end of the mission, when you meet with Gary Savage for him to thank you about saving his daughter, he offers you an upgrade canister and 500 Skill Points are granted.''

Was this removed from GMDX? I saved Tiffany but I don't get to meet Gary Savage and get those things, I'm taken directly to the next mission (I'm playing the RoSoDude fork of GMDX btw)
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,991
Savage gives you an upgrade canister at the end of the Ocean Lab in GMDX. Is that what you're talking about?
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
575
You don't get the canister until you return from the Oceanlab, which is the next mission.

The only difference between GMDX and Vanilla is that GMDX comes with ConFix, which fixes an isssue where Gary Savage will give you unlimited aug canisters if your inventory is full.

Also, you should join the RoSoDude discord if you want the latest version of GMDX, which is much, much, much better than the publicly release vRSD version. It won't be compatible with your save, but enough has changed that you might want to do another one afterwards (or restart).
 

Jazz_

Arcane
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,078
Location
Sea of Ubiquity
The nanokey for the sector door in Area 51 is missing in my game (the one you get in the pod/bed with the dead scientist on it), was it moved around in the mod or maybe a bug in my game?
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
575
If you mean this one

3RuxSsi.png


It was moved in GMDX. If you want to know where it is, read the spoiler.

It's on a box the room where the man who killed your parents arrives on an elevator with 2 other troops
 

Jazz_

Arcane
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,078
Location
Sea of Ubiquity
If you mean this one

3RuxSsi.png


It was moved in GMDX. If you want to know where it is, read the spoiler.

It's on a box the room where the man who killed your parents arrives on an elevator with 2 other troops

Why though? Makes no sense? Isn't that the nanokey that opens the door that leads you to the room with the boxes where you get ambushed?
 

Jazz_

Arcane
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,078
Location
Sea of Ubiquity
Only Ash can answer that question. I assume it was done for a (good) reason, most of the other GMDX changes seem pretty well thought out.
It makes 0 sense as far as I can see, that nanokey you get in the pod needs to be used to open the sector 3 door, otherwise you can only open it with 4 lockpicks (which is what I did, I then found the nanokey in the first room in sector 3 with the boxes, but by then it's completely useless? Am I missing something here? It seems a really non-sensical design decision to me, it forces you to use lockpicks and if you don't have them you are stuck in that area? For the record I didn't have the 4 lockpicks, I had to spawn them with cheats...).
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
575
I have definitely been able to enter that room without lockpicks before, but I don't remember how.

I think it's designed to still give you alternate ways in using other resources, but without the free instant-access of a key, which is typical fare for GMDX.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
575
Every time I see one of these "Deus Ex in UE5" type posts I am initially very impressed because the quality of the lighting is great, but then I remember how much better the Deus Ex renderer is on account of not smearing the screen with blurry TAA, horrendously bad resolution scaling, or overbearing bloom.

I know it's a controversial opinion, but I think UE1 looks better overall than UE5 because of this.

It's not just Deus Ex and not just UE1 either, the eye cancer is present everywhere



I guess this is indicative of a larger problem with games now, overall, and I don't mean to pick on these UE5 projects, I know they mean well. I just wish UE5 didn't look so crappy overall and I wish more games were willing to actually put some effort in to looking even slightly good rather than just slapping filters over everything.
 

soutaiseiriron

Educated
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
428
blurry TAA, horrendously bad resolution scaling
fair enough, taa is not a great fit for these games and doesn't bring any benefits unless you also create a detailed normalmapped texture pack, but lumen requires temporal accumulation for dedithering. resolution scaling is optional.
overbearing bloom
the alternative is having basically no highlights at all, but this is tweakable.
I know it's a controversial opinion, but I think UE1 looks better overall than UE5 because of this.
probably the safest opinion you can have on this website

It's not just Deus Ex and not just UE1 either, the eye cancer is present everywhere
i think that's just down to really bad compression combined with questionable post-processing. i suspect the creator of that video has a toaster and is running at sub-native resolution at 1080p, cause it doesn't look like it's a full 60fps.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,727

I'm sure this is technically impressive but I see nothing noteworthy in this demonstration.

Every time I see one of these "Deus Ex in UE5" type posts I am initially very impressed because the quality of the lighting is great, but then I remember how much better the Deus Ex renderer is on account of not smearing the screen with blurry TAA, horrendously bad resolution scaling, or overbearing bloom.
Is the blurriness a baked in feature of UE5 or is it something devs are adding? Is it literally impossible to get sharp visuals on modern engines?

Old games that don't have ever present blur are so much more visually attractive.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
575
fair enough, taa is not a great fit for these games and doesn't bring any benefits unless you also create a detailed normalmapped texture pack, but lumen requires temporal accumulation for dedithering. resolution scaling is optional.

TAA is not a great fit for any game and is an industry-wide mistake that we will all look back on in 10 years as a blunder that never looked good.

If you are an artist and you think the current rendering technology produces good results, then I highly suggest a change of career.

the alternative is having basically no highlights at all, but this is tweakable.

Are we really at a state in the industry where the only options are shitty looking overbearing lights, or nothing? What happened to subtlety? Old games managed to have very good looking lighting (both baked and dynamic), including highlights, without any bloom at all, let alone HDR. Are you seriously telling me that it's not possible to have something that has highlights and looks good without completely overprocessing the shit out of it?

I know it's a controversial opinion, but I think UE1 looks better overall than UE5 because of this.
probably the safest opinion you can have on this website

I think the general hatred for how bad modern games look goes well beyond the reach of this site. I have presented this opinion in many places, and always been met with support. People are fed up with how crappy games look now, and look back to how crisp and nice older games look.

i think that's just down to really bad compression combined with questionable post-processing. i suspect the creator of that video has a toaster and is running at sub-native resolution at 1080p, cause it doesn't look like it's a full 60fps.

You think this garbage would look better without being compressed?

Is the blurriness a baked in feature of UE5 or is it something devs are adding? Is it literally impossible to get sharp visuals on modern engines?

Old games that don't have ever present blur are so much more visually attractive.

TAA and sharpening were basically added to enable anti-aliasing on deferred-rendering engines like Unreal. It was done for performance reasons and because deffered-rendering engines can't do proper AA. Then, a few years later, artists collectively deluded themselves into thinking it looks good, so they don't put in any effort to work around it or hide it in clever ways that downplay TAA's faults, making the blur much worse.

Deferred-rendering became the standard because you can push more polygons due to it being very slightly more efficient than traditional forward rendering techniques. So in our endless quest for better graphics, we've completely undermined graphics.

Deferred rendering looks bad in every single game it's used in, but for some reason, it seems to be 10,000 times worse in unreal. The TAA in Doom Eternal, for instance, causes far less rendering artifacts than your typical unreal engine game, my guess is that the generic "one size fits all" solution in Unreal has none of the techniques to try and obfuscate or hide the rendering issues caused by TAA and other nonsense, which is why it looks so much worse in Unreal.

Forward-Rendering is essentially deprecated in Unreal now, so it's practically impossible to make a game that isn't a blurry mess. This is why I recommend developers actively avoid using Unreal for your projects, and it's why I don't purchase or play games made using Unreal Engine 4 or 5. Any game with a "resolution scale" setting is an instant no-buy because it's literally impossible for any of them to look good under any circumstances - even when rendering at the native resolution - because worthless "image enhancing" (read: image ruining) techniques like dedithering, sharpening, and DLSS are always active no matter what - that's the nature of the Unreal (and other modern engine) graphics pipelines. They are literally built entirely around scaling and sharpening the image in lieu of proper anti-alising, and handling features like reflection purely in screen-space (which is why reflections in Unreal games look so weird, and also why none of them have mirrors) because deferred rendering prevents these things from happening at their proper place in the image rendering process, so they have to be done as post-processing effects instead, which only ever results in horrible blur and other image degredation. This performance "compromise" means it's practically impossible to make anything that doesn't look terrible in any modern engine that has drunk the image-scaling post-processing kool aid, at least not without completely rewriting the graphics pipeline - which would essentially mean creating your own engine anyway, defeating the purpose of using an off-the-shelf engine in the first place and WAY out of scope for most indie and even AAA projects.

Being eye-catching was the only thing AAA gaming has had going for it for over a decade now. If the industry doesn't change course immediately and adopt older, more tried-and-true rendering techniques, I fear they may shoot themselves in the foot so hard that they collapse and take the whole industry with them. Normies are starting to notice how bad it's gotten. My roommate only plays CoD, FIFA, and other low-quality garbage on his XBOX and he told me yesterday he's noticed the image quality has gone to shit.

I know people shit on Unity, because of the whole CEO debacle a few years ago, and because it's generally declining in quality with every version, but it remains the only popular engine on the market right now that supports both forward-rendering and proper baked lighting, doesn't rely on resolution scaling and other horrible hacky workarounds to have a fast and efficient render pipeline, and gives full control over the entire render pipeline, so it's your best choice if you want to make something efficient that actually looks good. Unreal heavily leans on a black box (Lumen) to do it's wacky dynamic and mixed lighting techniques, which is why everything looks overly bright, why Unreal games run like ass, and why every single game made in Unreal has a day-night cycle, since you effectively get it for free because everything is so reliant on dynamic lighting.

TL:DR ALL Unreal Engine 4 and 5 games look like shit. They will always look like shit and the engine is designed in such a way that it's literally impossible for them to not look like shit. Anyone who tells you otherwise either doesn't know what they are talking about, is lying, or works for Epic and is actively trying to sell you their terrible engine.
 
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soutaiseiriron

Educated
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
428
TAA is not a great fit for any game and is an industry-wide mistake that we will all look back on in 10 years as a blunder that never looked good.
Have you even tried modern games without TAA? It looks like shit. Your only options are to wait a decade to play at 4k with 2x supersampling or deal with TAA to have visuals that aren't fucking broken. You want detailed normalmapped textures and a lot of transparencies like foliage, you plain need TAA to have it look stable instead of flickery shit. Or you need a lot of supersampling.
Are we really at a state in the industry where the only options are shitty looking overbearing lights, or nothing? What happened to subtlety? Old games managed to have very good looking lighting (both baked and dynamic), including highlights, without any bloom at all, let alone HDR. Are you seriously telling me that it's not possible to have something that has highlights and looks good without completely overprocessing the shit out of it?
No, we aren't. It's an artistic decision or something that comes from inexperience in tweaking post-processing. A bad remake in UE5 with all the sliders cranked up isn't indicative of anything.
You think this garbage would look better without being compressed?
It would look less blocky and blurry, yeah. All the UE5 shots are in motion, which combined with bad TAA settings (probably also the older TAA-U, instead of the better and more modern TSR) and heavy compression, it looks like shit.
It was done for performance reasons and because deffered-rendering engines can't do proper AA.
You can do MSAA in deferred engines. It's just too expensive to be viable, while still being inferior at actually anti-aliasing.
Deferred-rendering became the standard because you can push more polygons due to it being very slightly more efficient than traditional forward rendering techniques
Dynamic lighting, not polygons. Both cut into your overall budget, so I guess that's a half-truth. If you only want to push polygons, you go forward.
The TAA in Doom Eternal, for instance, causes far less rendering artifacts than your typical unreal engine game
It's actually worse than DLSS with ghosting. It's a good TAA, but not spectacular. TSR might be better. Can't really compare two engines like that though.
because worthless "image enhancing" (read: image ruining) techniques like dedithering, sharpening, and DLSS are always active no matter what - that's the nature of the Unreal (and other modern engine) graphics pipelines. They are literally built entirely around scaling and sharpening the image in lieu of proper anti-alising, and handling features like reflection purely in screen-space (which is why reflections in Unreal games look so weird, and also why none of them have mirrors) because deferred rendering prevents these things from happening at their proper place in the image rendering process, so they have to be done as post-processing effects instead, which only ever results in horrible blur and other image degredation.
Sharpening is 99% of the time optional. FSR2/3 has it forced on, but TSR, DLSS and XeSS don't do sharpening.
You'd generally have more dithering with LODs and without Nanite than with. Dithering was frequently used to hide LOD pop-in. Dithering is still entirely optional with UE, again it's not an indictment on the engine that developers want to save performance with dithered hair, particles, transparencies, what have you, when 99% of people use TAA anyway. It should still be an option to have no subsampled or dithered effects for future-proofing, though.
Lumen can do real reflections. Your opinions are stuck in UE4. Software Lumen has worse quality for them, hardware lumen is better. Both are scalable to have higher or lower quality depending on your graphical target or performance demands. Forward rendering isn't some magic bullet that will allow you to have real mirrors like old games, it's still going to be really expensive and hence be forced on only small enclosed spaces, instead of being scalable to every reflective surface.
I know people shit on Unity, because of the whole CEO debacle a few years ago, and because it's generally declining in quality with every version, but it remains the only popular engine on the market right now that supports both forward-rendering and proper baked lighting, doesn't rely on resolution scaling and other horrible hacky workarounds to have a fast and efficient render pipeline, and gives full control over the entire render pipeline, so it's your best choice if you want to make something efficient that actually looks good. Unreal heavily leans on a black box (Lumen) to do it's wacky dynamic and mixed lighting techniques, which is why everything looks overly bright, why Unreal games run like ass, and why every single game made in Unreal has a day-night cycle, since you effectively get it for free because everything is so reliant on dynamic lighting.
Yeah, because few use Unity except for mobile devs. That's why forward rendering is still an option.
Dynamic lighting is better for the reasons you described, yes. No one forces you to rely only on dynamic lights instead of baked lights. UE5 supports both.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
575
Here's some work in progress sneak-preview stuff for the new GMDX version. None of this is final.

If you look closely you will probably see a bunch of extra features that haven't been talked about, especially toolbelt related ones.







Feedback is very much appreciated. If you want to play the beta version, there's links on the RoSoDude discord.
 
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Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
575
Why let augs be replaced?
Because people would frequently spend 5 picks unlocking a safe only to find an aug canister that contains an aug they already have, and the relevant body part is full so they can't add the other option, making the can literally completely useless.

Aug Shuffle + Hardcore limited saving makes for a horrible combination in this regard.

Even if a save point is nearby and they can reload without losing much progress, it's still a common source of frustration, and I have heard people complaining about it ever since vRSD was released.

So I decided to fix it without going overboard. There's nothing like full "respeccing", it's more that you can replace one aug from a can with the other aug from the same can, if and only if all the slots for that aug type are full, at the cost of all of it's upgrades. It's a steep trade off, and won't be used most of the time, but it's SOMETHING to placate people rather than having a literally useless aug can. Now every aug can is theoretically useful, although in practice I doubt this feature will be used much if at all, since it's extremely situational.

I'm sure, had I not shown it off, most people would never find it or use it anyway.
 
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Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
2,007
This reminds me of Cyberpunk 2077 where most weapon and armor mod icons show plug-in designs, but in the original game you can't swap them. Luckily there is a mod to allow that :)!
 

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