Gothic II: NotR - requesting build advice

[LoPan]

How does the stat balance thing pan out?

It is between one- and two-handed weapons, and I assume Bows and Crossbow as well as between Dex and Str (and Mana?) But is it really worth dumping all your LP in Str and the chosen weapon if you're a fighter, even though the LP doubles?

Started playing this game, with expansion, a week ago. First character lasted for four hours and the second one now for two, thinking of making a third run into actually playing this game but now I'm all freaked out and obsessive about LP spending mistakes and the actual viability of things like forging or a pure mage.

 

[Revenant]

I have beaten the game as a pure mage, although it was quite a pain in the ass. Mana regeneration lack is catastrophic, as there are too few mana potions in the game. However, there is a workaround. There is a fire mage that sells some magic staff in the monastery. This staff has +20 mana bonus. The trick is to reequip it once your mana completely drains, and you recover 20 mana points. This way you have infinite mana in 20 mana amounts This is workable in the early game, however, once you hit more powerful spells that use 20 or more mana, the issue becomes quite annoying. However, the mage pays off in the ending when you get the wave of death rune, which is capable of instantaneously killing a full room of elite orcs in one hit.

As for melee and ranged builds, I cannot advice anything that wasn't already discussed in this thread. Just read some earlier messages and you will have a pretty good clue what to do and what not to do when building your character.

 

[LoPan]

I did, but the balancing thing was never mentioned, and the thread doesn't mention much, beyond exploits and bugs, that I have not already figured from playing it like I have. I was honestly hoping that a genuine mana regen existed, perhaps when you had high mana (like how you get Acrobatics from high dex) or some sort of special guild item. In Gothic 1 a mage build was viable because your character easily became able to clear out any store of their potions, supplying you ridiculously, but so far Gothic 2 doesn't seem to work nearly as poorly in its economy and your statements agree with the assumption on my part. Not to keen on using exploits, for some reason unless I myself discover them, so a mage seems an unattractive prospect. Suppose I'll just rock the standard build of 2-hander with strength and go with the paladins, basic stuff but its silly to obsess so much over a game I haven't even really played, and I'll be damned if I look up a guide--oh, to poison the mind!

 

[Hobo Elf]

Generally I advise against playing as a Fire Magician. There are a bazillion work arounds and shit you can do to make it sort of work, but it will always be more trouble than it's worth. It takes too long for things to pick up as a mage for it to be any fun. The balance is really awkward. Just stick to swinging swords or shooting arrows.

 

[Metro]

Yeah it's not a good idea to go mage your first play through. If anything you'd have to start off dumping points into Dex and be ranged until you actually get access to spells. Even then I never felt the magic mechanics in Gothic games were ever done particularly well: insanely high rune spell cost relative to scrolls, no difference between the power of the two, lack of mana regen mechanic, etc. As far as spending LP if you really do just have to decide what type of character you're going to be and then dump the points into the relevant statistics -- basically strength and 2H for melee characters. Some people prefer 1H but I really don't see the benefit in them. Yes you get faster attacks but it's not as if you can use a shield and the range of 2H usually outweighs their slower speeds. Other than that you should grab lock pick, probably skinning to help with money (but don't waste LP on any of the other trophy skills), alchemy to min/max later, then you'll need some to learn the stone tablet language, etc.

 

[LoPan]

A shame really, they made everything else better in Gothic 2; then again, if there was mana regen then a magician may have been too powerful, or mage playing players would spend most of their time standing around waiting for their mana regen, but if the mana regen was too fast it would be trivial an frivolous for it to exist. No idea what they did with it in Gothic 3 but in Gothic 1&2 magic sure is a weird problem.

So dumping points into a stat or weapon skill without balancing them out is not a horrible idea then? Just never got a very clear affirmative on that.

 

[Metro]

It's pretty much the only way you'll be able to beat the game. There was a bit of debate earlier on whether or not it was a good idea to dump enough points into dexterity in order to get pick pocketing but, again, at most you're probably only going to use 10-15 LP for that. I just don't think it's necessary and you're better off sinking those points into stuff that will more directly benefit your build early on (STR/2H). Paladins do get runes you can use later on but it really isn't worth while to dump any LP into increasing your maximum mana -- you can do that by eating mushrooms and using stone tablets later on. But yes, with a few utility expenditures (tablet reading, lock pick, alchemy, skinning, etc.) you basically just want to go strength and 2H.

 

[Murk]

The main perk of 1-handed weapons to 2-handed weapons is a) all dex blades are 1-handed weapons, and b) if you "jump back" as a dodge (which is necessary for fighting monsters/animals) 1-handed weapons give you immediately control where-as 2-handed weapons have an extra step that eats a split second, enough to get hit -- and when you're fighting things like Dragon Snappers, that split second is a world of difference.

If you go 2-handed I can only suggest you go for a full STR/Melee build that emphasizes high armor and can actually afford to take "extra" hits.

LoPan, what quests regarding balancing did you have specifically? About making a viable mage build?

 

[Nim]

No mod for the english version that adds mana regen ? Minimod balance does it for the german one plus quite a few other nifty things like being able to use tablets and other boni from the beginning.

 

[Jasede]

I don't see automatic mana regen working in this game; it seems designed around the limited mana refills.

(Not trying to brag here, because I'm not that good either, but my brother was- he just derped through the game as a Fighter/Mage/Thief with all the thief skills, crossbow skill, 1-handed skill and maxed out magic (but with limited mana). I don't know how he pulled that shit off =/. And yes, he used all those skills, as needed. AND he didn't use a guide. o_O)

(Footnote: Then again, he was some kind of video game savant anyway. Whatever game he touched he finished; quickly. X-Com? Done in a week when it came out. Project X? Piece of cake. Cannon Fodder, The Chaos Engine? Niggah, please. Serious Sam on Mental? Child's play. Why am I not that good? )

When I tried to do the same thing in NotR I just got my ass handed to me and resorted to a guide, making the whole game feel shallow and eventually giving up on it before finishing it. Maybe I'll try again, now that I'm as old as he was then.

 

[Nim]

I don't see automatic mana regen working in this game; it seems designed around the limited mana refills.

You can always try it and see for yourself if you don't mind your game in german, I don't think the way current mana refill works is that much better. You either sleep all the time to refill your mana (tedious) or you chug pot after pot (not much better) . Not sure if merchants restocked/had enough but from a money point you should have no problem to buy all and use alchemy for quite a few more.

 

[Jasede]

I might try it, I'm just worried it might make it too easy. Merchants don't restock and herbs are limited. Yes, you kind of end up with 100 or so mana potions easily if you are a hoarder like me- but you do go through them pretty quickly, too.

If you're like me you pick up every single herb and every single piece of meat to save money, and if you do that you notice how quickly you go through it all and end up having to drain your potions. Same for mana.

Gothic is much better in German, by the way. There's only like four voice actors, but they're great and the German they used at the time the game came out was very... stylish and modern. Very appropriate for the mood of the game.

"Du willst wohl eine aufs Maul?!"

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS I AM NOW IN THE EXPANSION PART AND AM AT LEAST SEMIPOWERFUL

 

[LoPan]

LoPan, what quests regarding balancing did you have specifically? About making a viable mage build?

By 'quests' I assume you mean questions, doesn't make much sense otherwise, and it's all jake: the thread answered most and Metro cleared it up.

Gothic is much better in German, by the way. There's only like four voice actors, but they're great and the German they used at the time the game came out was very... stylish and modern. Very appropriate for the mood of the game.

"Du willst wohl eine aufs Maul?!"

I have only a vague understanding of German, but are the German voice actors capable of displaying several, at times contradictory, emotions in the same sentence? I hear German sentence structure would in itself be capable of this strange feat; I actually have a point and question here, assuming you're German, or know German, is the translation of Gothic faithful or are the voice actors just wrecking the dialogue Twitcher-style?

I'm taking the opportunity to ask because in the thread I don't think you're the first to note the superiority of the German version.

 

[Metro]

BROS I AM NOW IN THE EXPANSION PART AND AM AT LEAST SEMIPOWERFUL

Yeah once you get to Jarkendar it's smooth sailing. The water mages sell a pretty strong 2H weapon, too.

 

[Murk]

BROS I AM NOW IN THE EXPANSION PART AND AM AT LEAST SEMIPOWERFUL

Pseudo spoiler/hint -- Don't wear bandit armor around anyone who isn't a bandit to avoid random neutrals going aggro on you.

 

[Jasede]

LoPan; you may not be aware, but Gothic is a German game and was dubbed by Germans so it's the only version that sounds authentic if you care about that sort of thing. So no, they aren't wrecking the dialogue. Rather, they are pronouncing it the way it was intended.

 

[Metro]

Looking back I probably should have played with the German audio and English sub titles... I'm sure it's possible through some file tweak.

 

[LoPan]

Jasede; I am quite aware, I was remarking to the possibility of the English translation being botched compared to the intentions of the original German text. The English voice-over in Gothic I'm sure is inferior--I enjoyed it in its silliness but it did avoid me from taking any part of the game in any way serious, and I wondered if the original German voice and text brought across a possible serious undertone that was obviously absent in the English voice-over.

Maybe this line confused the issue: "I have only a vague understanding of German, but are the German voice actors capable of displaying several, at times contradictory, emotions in the same sentence? I hear German sentence structure would in itself be capable of this strange feat;" It was meant as a gibe towards the English voice-over which was inconsistent in its delivery of intention and emotion.

And in this: "I actually have a point and question here, assuming you're German, or know German, is the translation of Gothic faithful or are the voice actors just wrecking the dialogue Twitcher-style?" I meant the translation of the original German Gothic into English, not English into German.

To put it more simply, what I wondered, and am still wondering, is if the English translation does the dialogue and the general feel of Gothic a great disservice.

 

[Jasede]

I avoided answering because I don't know! I didn't have the questionable fortune of playing the English version yet.

 

[Nim]

I tried the beginning in english once, thought it sucked compared to german and didn't go any further. I doubt you will find many (any?) germans who have played through the game in english after experiencing it in german.

 

[LoPan]

Then what we do know is that in its original German form Gothic did not sound silly. In the English voice-over of Gothic 2 I often hear the word 'capice' (or however it is spelled) said as if straight from a hollywood gangster film, so I suppose the issues of translation were never emended.

 

[Skittles]

I don't know, I'm pretty forgiving of games in fantasy settings that just say 'fuck it' to the accents and speech patterns. I'm generally in the mindset that whatever I'm reading or hearing is translated from whatever people would be saying in their own tongues in this fictional place, so using expressions--idioms, slang, foreign words--that are common in the language I'm actually hearing the game in isn't particularly jarring so long as the meaning is conveyed. Extra points to devs who reserve stilted language only for people who'd speak their language stiltedly and slang for people who'd use slang in that language. For me, it's worse when people ponce around in pseudo accents and fake old English because somebody thinks that's how people in a fantasy environment would talk.

Not to say that's optimal, but I don't expect every games writer to come up with slang and idioms for his world or an entirely new language that I only understand through literally translated subtitles.

Gothic itself... It's more the sometimes iffy voice actors that stick out, not using words like 'capiche' or saying 'gonna' instead of 'going to.' I identify the game to my non-RPG-gaming cohabitant as "that German game with the ridiculous voices," as a matter of fact. That said, I, too, am interested to hear how the writing was handled on the German side.

EDIT: Any German and English speaking Codexer want to volunteer to help PB do naturalization on future games? I'm shit at German, but I'd gladly try my hand at helping smooth the translation out.

 

[Murk]

Who says 'capice'? I do know that some characters sound beyond stupid, but it was never really an issue for me. Gothic 3's sounded so much worse (especially Gorn and Milten's voice, though Diego's was an improvement). I guess immersion just doesn't matter to me. I was thoroughly surprised by how good Divinity 2's voice acting was tho, even outside of relative expectations from Div 1's era.

 

[LoPan]

Guards if they take you out and in some of the bandit and mercenary dialogue, or other seemingly crooked characters, they will sometimes drop 'capice'/'capiche', even though it is not in the English subtitle text. What I highly doubt is that they use such a word in the German version, and that perhaps it was a desperate or poorly thought out translation of some German form or twist of speech.

Mind, not even the 'capice'/'capiche' really bothers me, I enjoy the English voice-over of Gothic 1&2 (haven't played the third) in much the same fashion I enjoy the voice-over of an Acquire or Koei game, not dissimilar to the enjoyment of camp.