KickStarter Grim Dawn

[Average Manatee]

Don't worry you'll be safe if I do.

 

[Saduj]

Grimdark stuff happened and everyone started getting possessed by grimdark spirits set on taking over the world, then more grimdark happened and blood cults attracted the attention of not-Cthulhu who also invaded. Not sure on the order, might be the other way around.

That's the two main enemy factions. Aetherials then Cthonics is the right order. But also all the weird supernatural stuff going on caused native fauna to mutate and become more dangerous. Then you also have Korvaak, who is his own thing and the big baddie from the 2nd expansion.

 

[abija]

I'm not talking about the story but about gearing your character. Do you know how low the drop chances for items are in diablo 2? Grim Dawn was made with the philosophy that the developers actually want their players to "finish" characteres, and it's very easy compared to the other ARPGs. Crate are really smart devs, I've read a bit of what they were posting over the years, much respect for them but it's not really what I'm looking for in an ARPG.

Most GD players enjoy having lots of alts and experimenting with different builds, this is where the game really shines. Coming up with a whacky build idea and seeing if you can kill the superbosses with it.

What I said still applies. The game is "longer" and more difficult than any realtively known arpg except poe without trade.

The fact that some item in D2 is super rare is irrelevant or that in LE you need to play a bazillion irrelevant rifts til you hit a semblance of difficulty.
I'm talking about finishing the story or the main end game content and getting a build done.

 

[Vic]

I'm not talking about the story but about gearing your character. Do you know how low the drop chances for items are in diablo 2? Grim Dawn was made with the philosophy that the developers actually want their players to "finish" characteres, and it's very easy compared to the other ARPGs. Crate are really smart devs, I've read a bit of what they were posting over the years, much respect for them but it's not really what I'm looking for in an ARPG.

Most GD players enjoy having lots of alts and experimenting with different builds, this is where the game really shines. Coming up with a whacky build idea and seeing if you can kill the superbosses with it.

What I said still applies. The game is "longer" and more difficult than any realtively known arpg except poe without trade.

???

I just said I got full BiS gear in ~2 weeks of playing the game plus enough legendaries for 2+ builds on mules.

does not compute

 

[abija]

Are you aware that in "seasonal" arpgs people are there in a weekend?

 

[Vic]

Are you aware that in "seasonal" arpgs people are there in a weekend?

are you aware that there is very little endgame in grim dawn? so after 2 weeks my character was able to clear everything including superbosses. now compare that with other "real" or seasonal if you will arpgs, they have 10000x more endgame

I guess I could've pushed SR above 75 but at that point I was already bored with the game for lack of proper endgame

 

[Vic]

The fact that some item in D2 is super rare is irrelevant or that in LE you need to play a bazillion irrelevant rifts til you hit a semblance of difficulty.
I'm talking about finishing the story or the main end game content and getting a build done.

just saw your edit, yeah I'm not talking about the story lmao... not talking about getting a viable build either but about building a character that can clear the hardest content in the game... in GD you can do that in ~2 weeks if you no-life it like me and probably faster even. also if you have your first character ready with whom you can buy mandates and xp potions and farm lokarrs set it's much faster for other toons.

people can't do that in 1000s hours playing proper ARPGs

no endgame in GD, or as they say, the endgame is making more toons, which is not interesting to me

 

[abija]

Grim dawn has more endgame than D2-3-4 or LE atm though it might change in some time for D4 and LE.

You have some very wierd idea about arpgs in general. The only "slow" one is PoE if you don't trade (because the game is built around trade).
As for difficulty, pfft, no idea how it is atm but veteran on GD was hardest by far.

 

[Vic]

I can't believe what I'm reading

 

[Vic]

Grim dawn has more endgame than D2-3-4 or LE

what's the endgame in grim dawn?

 

[Average Manatee]

I haven't actually timed myself but I'm pretty sure I could finish Normal/Nightmare/Hell in Diablo 2 quicker than I could just veteran in Grim Dawn.

Granted this is partially a self-inflicted thing, I have to get at a minimum all devotion shrines and important quests in GD where in D2 it's pretty much just running through maps while popping off an AoE from time to time for XP.

It's also possible to play GD as a 1 to 100 experience on ultimate from the start but that's like an order of magnitude harder than anything else in the genre and probably impossible for a large number of builds. Although IIRC when I actually did this I only ended up at something like level 85.

 

[abija]

what's the endgame in grim dawn?

Bosses on ultimate, the roguelike dungeons, high lvls of Crucible if you have it, the celestial bosses, high levels of shattered realm (75 or 80 iirc) and then see how high you can go.

What do you think the end game in other arpgs is?

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Grim Dawn is awesome, some of you need Jesus in your lives.

REPENT!

 

[Vic]

Bosses on ultimate

that's not endgame that's still part of leveling iirc

the roguelike dungeons

they are okayish to do before you can farm SR but totem hunting is nowadays better, don't know when you last played but there are monster totems now all over the world which drop legendaries

Crucible

never did it, also not necessary for progression

the celestial bosses

yup, I think that's the ultimate challenge for a build, some of the quests are annoying as hell though.

high levels of shattered realm (75 or 80 iirc)

yeah that's GD's greater rift equivalent

so this is how GD's engame might look after reaching level 100:

- farm totems to get the legendaries you need to get a build going to be able to start doing SR
- climb SR and keep upgrading your gear
- once you have your full gear, kill the celestial bosses

after that? well all you can do is try to reach higher levels in SR and farm for better gear rolls, again doing SR... very LACKING. And you can reach this point (beaten celestials) with a fresh/ssf character in a couple weeks.

compare that to Diablo 3 where in addition to just getting the set and farming for rolls you also have LEVELED GEMS, ANCIENTS... and PARAGON LEVELS!

The POWER CURVE is much, much longer in D3, you can grind and power up your character for 100s, if not 1000s, of hours. Here, Greater Rift progression makes actually sense, because you progress further the higher stats you have. In GD you are limited to farming perfect rolls for your BiS gear past level 100, and that's it. There are no other mechanics to power up your character beyond that.

If GD had something like a paragon level it might do better, but then again SR is really kind of boring and predictable to farm.

 

[abija]

that's not endgame that's still part of leveling iirc

Considering everything else I listed, I obviously meant the final bosses of the game and expansions.

roguelike dungeons: they are okayish to do before you can farm SR but totem hunting is nowadays better, don't know when you last played but there are monster totems now all over the world which drop legendaries

It's content.

Crucible: never did it, also not necessary for progression

Still content

compare that to Diablo 3 where in addition to just getting the set and farming for rolls you also have LEVELED GEMS, ANCIENTS... and PARAGON LEVELS!

The POWER CURVE is much, much longer in D3, you can grind and power up your character for 100s, if not 1000s, of hours. Here, Greater Rift progression makes actually sense, because you progress further the higher stats you have. In GD you are limited to farming perfect rolls for your BiS gear past level 100, and that's it. There are no other mechanics to power up your character beyond that.

If GD had something like a paragon level it might do better, but then again SR is really kind of boring and predictable to farm.

Bitch pls... D3 has only Rifts and Greater Rifts as end game content. And you get a char from 0 to farming last tier of rifts in a day.
(they also had some boss encounters but they powercrept over them at 1000mph)

You must be completely retarded to count an infinite +5 stats per x XP system as end game content.

If SR is boring and predictible to farm so is the whole end game of D3.

 

[Saduj]

Been playing the Diablo III mod some more. I think I inadvertently exaggerated the difficulty in my last post. Death Seraphs are definitely tougher than the average vanilla monster and they require a bit of micro. But they aren't that bad. The first time I found one, it was on a map with very narrow pathways and my character was only level 25 with random gear (modded characters have separate shared stash). With more room to move around, it is much easier to dodge their attacks and deal with them. That's a good thing because they've become fairly common and are often appearing alongside hero or boss monsters. They're still a high priority that need to be killed first but they aren't unfair or anything. I'm at level 30 now. I suspect that by the time I get all my skills/gear/devotions gelling into a semi coherent build, Death Seraphs will be even less of a concern. Hopefully the mod adds some other challenges by then. The only other custom monster I've noticed so far are Death Maidens, which are just trash melee units.

 

[Vic]

You must be completely retarded to count an infinite +5 stats per x XP system as end game content.

Jesus christ you must be a moron. ARPGs are an autistic grindfest where you grind and grind forever, that's the appeal. I don't understand why you feel the need to defend Grim Dawn where the design philosophy is to make away with the grind and make characters "finishable" and appeal to a more casual userbase that doesn't have time to play 1000s of hours.

It's like, completely different from poe and shit. saying that grim dawn is longer than other arpgs is the most retarded take I have ever read. It was designed to be much, much shorter by eliminating the autistic endgame grind.

I repeat: There is very little endgame in GD. The true endgame is making new toons. And that's by design.

 

[Average Manatee]

Ah yes, the thing Grim Dawn is missing to have an "endgame" is to let you level to level 1000 but only give 1 stat point per level past 100.

toons

Anyone who calls characters this is either 12 or a pedophile.

 

[Vic]

Anyone who calls characters this is either 12 or a pedophile.

that's the proper vernacular, scrub

*looks in the mirror* why am I arguing with retards on the internet?

NOOOOO

 

[abija]

Jesus christ you must be a moron. ARPGs are an autistic grindfest where you grind and grind forever, that's the appeal. I don't understand why you feel the need to defend Grim Dawn where the design philosophy is to make away with the grind and make characters "finishable" and appeal to a more casual userbase that doesn't have time to play 1000s of hours.

It's like, completely different from poe and shit. saying that grim dawn is longer than other arpgs is the most retarded take I have ever read. It was designed to be much, much shorter by eliminating the autistic endgame grind.

I repeat: There is very little endgame in GD. The true endgame is making new toons. And that's by design.

PoE has a lot of content, GD is second atm content wise. Simple as.

ARPGS aren't supposed to be an autistic grindfest unless you are an autist or (your case) a retard. Artificial bullshit like paragons in D3 are exactly that, artificial bullshit. Content means things to do in the game, not repeating old things for infinite +5 stats. If you had a boss that requires 500 billion stats then yes, D3 content would last until you get those 100 billion paragons and kill the boss. In reality though, content is done in 1 day and all that's left is infinite meaningless +5 stats to keep retards happy.

Hell, with your absolutely retarded logic I could say GD is the grindiest since it has so many stats getting perfect rolls is pretty much impossible. But you could keep grinding at it. Afterall the result is minor stat upgrades just like the paragon system.

Oh and I'm not some GD fan, I've been quite critical of it. That doesn't mean the other games didn't head straight into the gutter.

 

[Fedora Master]

"In psychology, logorrhea or logorrhoea (from Ancient Greek λόγος logos "word" and ῥέω rheo "to flow") is a communication disorder that causes excessive wordiness and repetitiveness, which can cause incoherency. Logorrhea is sometimes classified as a mental illness, though it is more commonly classified as a symptom of mental illness or brain injury."

 

[Cohesion]

"In psychology, logorrhea or logorrhoea (from Ancient Greek λόγος logos "word" and ῥέω rheo "to flow") is a communication disorder that causes excessive wordiness and repetitiveness, which can cause incoherency. Logorrhea is sometimes classified as a mental illness, though it is more commonly classified as a symptom of mental illness or brain injury."

Why do you hate Cryomancer ??

 

[Cryomancer]

People discussing end game, I never liked the appeal of "end game" in any game. IMO games should focus on the journey. I liked playing D2 in normal/nightmare/hell but re playing the same level 666 times to maybe get a gear is imo boring.

ARPGs are an autistic grindfest where you grind and grind forever, that's the appeal.

That is the appeal of MODERN "arpgs". When I played Titan Quest, I was only interested in the campaign. Same for D1, D2 and GD.

Endless gear farming cooldown managing in very repetitive raids is a plague from wow.

 

[Vic]

Endless gear farming cooldown managing in very repetitive raids is a plague from wow.

WoW took these mechanics from Diablo 2 and EverQuest and not the other way around.

 

[Cryomancer]

Endless gear farming cooldown managing in very repetitive raids is a plague from wow.

WoW took these mechanics from Diablo 2 and EverQuest and not the other way around.

And this mechanics are the WORST part of D2/EQ. But WoW by being so successful made this shit mechanics the norm. Just look to mmos before wow, Ultima Online, Meridian 59...