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Grimoire gameplay and hints thread

Lady_Error

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Wiki never lists speed of mana regen for Naga (not sure why).

The fastest and slowest mana regeneration races are listed - the rest is average (http://grimoire.wiki/index.php/Races).

Anyone knows what exactly Int does for mages? And Wis?

It depends on whether magic skills increase through use. I don't think they do, which means mages don't really need INT and WIS. Instead, focus on getting more skill points for the magic skill of that class. High DEV seems to give more skill points on level up.
 

Gunnar

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Has anyone successfully made a Jester? It seems like it would require a truly autistic amount of reloading your levelups to make sure you got +6/+3/+3/+3. With 139 points to cover you would need perfect levelups each level all the way to level 9-10.
 

Lady_Error

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I recruited Chuckles and he is indeed awesome. To get a Jester the normal way would indeed require some hardcore planning and probably save-scumming before level ups.

It's the king of the classes after all.
 

Sonic Titan

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Is the benefit of multiclassing multiple times “additive” for the most part? As in, the more your characters have multiclassed the more stats/skills/abilities they stack in order to maximize the potential of he ending class?
 

Lady_Error

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Dorateen

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Is the benefit of multiclassing multiple times “additive” for the most part?

As mentioned above, skill ranks are retained, and you can continue to add to them. But just as important is the increasing amount of hit points, magic and vitality. I have some end game characters who switched to multiple professions, and have in the range of 450 hit points, and 900 vitality.
 

Sonic Titan

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Is the benefit of multiclassing multiple times “additive” for the most part?

As mentioned above, skill ranks are retained, and you can continue to add to them. But just as important is the increasing amount of hit points, magic and vitality. I have some end game characters who switched to multiple professions, and have in the range of 450 hit points, and 900 vitality.

I see. So it’s probably in my best interest to multiclass a handful of times. Here’s an updated party composition template based on the new information I’ve learned and gathered (I also intend to reroll for at least 33-35+ in the beginning for each party member):


1. Saurian: Berserker/Ranger/Thief/Pirate/Warrior
2. Saurian: Ranger/Warrior/Metalsmith/Berserker/Pirate
3. Rhattu: Thief/Assassin/Warrior/Berserker/Pirate
4. Naga: Berserker/Metalsmith/Warrior/Ranger/Thief/Assassin
5. Wolfin: Cleric/Templar (recommend more?)
6. Feyfolk: Bard/Jester (recommend more?)
7. Barrower: Thaumaturge/Necromancer/Sage/Wizard
8. Aeorb Sage (recommend anything?)

Please feel free to smite me with corrections or recommendations. Thanks for you and others’ input so far. I’m excited.
 

Lord Andre

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Is there any reason to not multi-class ?

I hate when the best path by far in a game is to multi-class everything six ways from Sunday. It makes the concept of a class meaningless and each one is less distinct and with less flavor since everyone ends up a master of everything cock-swasher/berserker/pirate/lich/cleric of the temple of twin bollocks/lord.

Boo, I say, Boo to this popamole shit!
 

Gunnar

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Is the benefit of multiclassing multiple times “additive” for the most part?

As mentioned above, skill ranks are retained, and you can continue to add to them. But just as important is the increasing amount of hit points, magic and vitality. I have some end game characters who switched to multiple professions, and have in the range of 450 hit points, and 900 vitality.

I see. So it’s probably in my best interest to multiclass a handful of times. Here’s an updated party composition template based on the new information I’ve learned and gathered (I also intend to reroll for at least 33-35+ in the beginning for each party member):


1. Saurian: Berserker/Ranger/Thief/Pirate/Warrior
2. Saurian: Ranger/Warrior/Metalsmith/Berserker/Pirate
3. Rhattu: Thief/Assassin/Warrior/Berserker/Pirate
4. Naga: Berserker/Metalsmith/Warrior/Ranger/Thief/Assassin
5. Wolfin: Cleric/Templar (recommend more?)
6. Feyfolk: Bard/Jester (recommend more?)
7. Barrower: Thaumaturge/Necromancer/Sage/Wizard
8. Aeorb Sage (recommend anything?)

Please feel free to smite me with corrections or recommendations. Thanks for you and others’ input so far. I’m excited.

I was looking at the Templar and the Jester myself.

The Jester just doesn't seem like a viable target. You need too many attributes and would have to reload your levels to a ridiculous degree. Try reloading just 1 level until you get +6 +3/+3/+3 and see how long it takes. You will have to do that 10 times. and the +3's would also have to be in the right attributes on top of that. It seems almost impossible.

As for the Templar, with -3 cleric level it would take a long time before he started gaining high level cleric spells and got better than a pure cleric or a cleric/fighter hybrid. He also lacks lethal blow. He's like a warrior that has to put points into Litany. Seems to me like he needs lots of skill points but also needs a high level, not a good combo. You either multiclass him a lot to get lethal blow and litany maxed out or you do what you have here and just do cleric->templar and try to stack his level as high as possible.

It's okay if you want to just go pure Sage (or any other caster) because they get high level spells.
 

Lady_Error

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I hate when the best path by far in a game is to multi-class everything six ways from Sunday.

Nobody forces you to multi-class and you can finish the game without it. And what is the best path? The easiest way to win? Then just load up on powerful NPC's like Chukles and Krondegraaf and skip the grinding and multi-classing. NPC's can't change classes, by the way.
 

Gunnar

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So is there any way to rid yourself of a CRITICAL item? I got stuck with a prayer shawl from the lake quest (i think because i had it equipped when i finished the quest?) and I can't drop it.
 

Dorateen

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So is there any way to rid yourself of a CRITICAL item? I got stuck with a prayer shawl from the lake quest (i think because i had it equipped when i finished the quest?) and I can't drop it.

In the main menu screen there is a configuration option called Critical Item Lock. Set this to off, and it will allow you to drop critical items.
 

Sonic Titan

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Gunnar

If not a Jester from Bard, what would you recommend? Scrapping the entire member for something different? Or just multiclass elsewhere from Bard

As for the Cleric/Templar the original intent was to make a sort-of Battle Cleric/Paladin type of unit. I can see why it makes sense to multiclass into some melee classes in there in order to pick up some skills.

Would Wolfin Ranger/Thief/Bard/Cleric/Templar be something to consider? Or would that path simply put good healing spells to far out? Also, I see Wolfin Bard is not a good combination. Hmm..different race maybe?
 

Lord Andre

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I hate when the best path by far in a game is to multi-class everything six ways from Sunday.

Nobody forces you to multi-class and you can finish the game without it. And what is the best path? The easiest way to win? Then just load up on powerful NPC's like Chukles and Krondegraaf and skip the grinding and multi-classing. NPC's can't change classes, by the way.

"You don't need to do it if you don't want to." is not an argument, it's a fanboy cop out. If you're gonna have classes and multi-classing in a system then the latter should come at a relevant cost so that choosing to do it or not is a meaningfull decision not a no-brainer. And having the optimum path be to stack 4-5 classes is asanine and the sign of a system flaw that the designer himself did not anticipate.

I'm not taking a swing at the whole game, the game is really good but when I see a flaw I'm not gonna sugar coat it like a fanboy.
 

Lady_Error

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If not a Jester from Bard, what would you recommend? Scrapping the entire member for something different? Or just multiclass elsewhere from Bard

The Bard/Thief/Assassin/Pirate/Jester multiclassing route seems to be pretty good actually. Once you have the Assassin or Pirate (high attributes at Level 1), it should be easier to increase the attributes enough for the Jester.

It's quite a lot though:

attributes.jpg


Actually, scratch that. Only a Bard can become a Jester, so getting those attributes high enough seems almost impossible without save scumming:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-and-hints-thread.117575/page-81#post-5953333
 
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Gunnar

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Gunnar

If not a Jester from Bard, what would you recommend? Scrapping the entire member for something different? Or just multiclass elsewhere from Bard

As for the Cleric/Templar the original intent was to make a sort-of Battle Cleric/Paladin type of unit. I can see why it makes sense to multiclass into some melee classes in there in order to pick up some skills.

Would Wolfin Ranger/Thief/Bard/Cleric/Templar be something to consider? Or would that path simply put good healing spells to far out? Also, I see Wolfin Bard is not a good combination. Hmm..different race maybe?

The bard is kind of an OP class, IMO. Music levels up through use and the starting harp puts everyone to sleep. You can multiclass from a Bard to anything you want and still keep his harp equipped. I multiclassed mine through all the caster classes, which works because casters don't need to equip anything in their hand slots.

As I said, this is the problem with the Templar. You have to either choose a skill focused build where you add in lethal blow with many multiclasses, or a level focused build to chase those high level cleric spells. Personally I'd rather build a dedicated fighter or cleric than make a Templar. I could be wrong, as I've never built a Templar myself. But this is just what the data seems to tell me.
 

Dorateen

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If you're gonna have classes and multi-classing in a system then the latter should come at a relevant cost so that choosing to do it or not is a meaningfull decision not a no-brainer.

The counterargument is that multi-classing does have restrictions in place: Each profession has only three classes they are allowed to switch into, and there is no returning to a previous class. Attributes reset to minimum class levels, which is an undesirable prospect only mitigated by the fact that you can build up your stats again over time. And spell casters have an incentive to stay pure, in order to obtain higher tier spells available at double-digit levels, which gives the player something further to take into consideration. One does not enter into Grimoire multi-classing lightly.
 

Lord Andre

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Do the attributes actually do anything so that losing them means anything ?

Are high level spells really needed? I remember I got deep freeze before the end of the first "zone" and it made all other spells irelevant.
 

Incendax

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The Grandmaster
Wizard > Thaumaturge > Necromancer > Sage > Cleric > Templar > Warrior > Ranger > Assassin > Berserker > Pirate > Thief > Bard > Jester.

That’s everything but Metalsmith.
 
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Lady_Error

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The bard is kind of an OP class, IMO. Music levels up through use and the starting harp puts everyone to sleep.

The Sage has music too. http://grimoire.wiki/index.php/Skills

So start at bard, go through all the caster classes, then end up on Sage? Does the Bard at least get any special Bard-only instruments in the end game?

If your Sage uses an Instrument, it will increase the skill through use (1 point for every 15-20 successful uses) and you can put points into it on level up as well. So a Bard is not really that necessary. And instruments are usable by anyone with a Music skill, as far as I know. Have about 10 of them in my V1 save, would need to check.

I remember I got deep freeze before the end of the first "zone" and it made all other spells irelevant.

Both Deep Freeze and the Hacyonic Lyre have been massively nerfed, I think. With the Lyre I am sure, since I tried it recently. Instead of 300-800 damage, it does 40-60 damage now.
 

Lady_Error

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The Grand Path
Wizard > Thaumaturge > Necromancer > Sage > Cleric > Templar > Warrior > Ranger > Assassin > Berserker > Pirate > Thief > Bard > Jester.

That’s everything but Metalsmith.

Good multiclassing advice on the Steam forum:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/650670/discussions/0/1744480967002484102/?ctp=3

crimsonedge11
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Dec 31, 2018 @ 7:31pm

Some hypothetical multi-class routes? Considering you can't be the same class twice?

(Rhattu) Pirate => Berserker => Warrior => Ranger => Thief => Assassin

(Rhattu) Assassin => Berserker => Warrior => Ranger => Thief => Pirate

Or (for both above) Thief => Bard => Jester (although Rhattu are probably better as Assassin/Pirate).

(Wolfin) Cleric => Sage => Thaumaturge => Necromancer => Wizard (Arch mage)
Or
(Wolfin) Cleric => Templar => Warrior => Berserker => Ranger/Pirate => Assassin => Thief => Bard => Jester (Paladin Jester)

(Drake) Metalsmith => Berserker => Ranger => Warrior => Pirate => Assassin => Thief => Bard => Jester.

(Saurian) Berserker => Ranger => Warrior => Pirate => Assassin => Thief => Bard => Jester

(Aeorb) Sage => Cleric => Templar => Warrior => Berserker => Ranger/Pirate => Assassin => Thief => Bard => Jester.

Bard - IMO, don't make a Bard starting class.....because they have to pick Jester as the 2nd class, or they can't otherwise be a Jester.

You got routes to make everyone Jesters as their final multi-class.

zelmes
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Dec 31, 2018 @ 9:07pm
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While these routes are possible, it seems like the required attributes make some nearly impossible, or at least a huge pain to make. Aeorb going from Cleric to Templar requires 30 points into strength alone, for instance, not to mention the other required stats. Even if you get it by save scumming, that's seems like an awfully lot of grinding.

Do you get bonus exp for less party members? Might be more doable if you are trying a solo run in that case. The game otherwise seems to be balanced around multiclassing once to a prestige or complementary class rather than jumping around a bunch like in Wiz 7. More similar bg or iwd dual classing.

crimsonedge11
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Dec 31, 2018 @ 9:08pm
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For Aeorb Sage, you get high rolls, and choose Attributes. You can get 80 something spare attribute points, and you can sand bag those attribute points for meeting multi-class minimums.

It also depends on when you class change. Hypothetically, let's say you class change the Aeorb Sage at level 12 (good time because you get ice comet). You sand bag all the bonus attribute points, combined with the 80 something bonus attributes you got on creation? You can get 5-6 bonus attributes every level. 12x6 = 72 + 80 = 152 points.

Then, you level cleric to level 10, and get another 50-60 points, so you now have 202-212 attribute points in the bank.

You use 50 to meet Templar's Stats (unsure of the exact amount, depends on random rolls as well), and you still got 152 points. You level Templar to 10, and you get back your point investment into Templar.

Going from Templar to Warrior should cost basically nothing, so the points you get from leveling warrior will go right into the bank. So you're looking at having 250+ attribute points in the bank after leveling warrior to 10.

Going from Warrior to Berserker should cost nothing, again, more attributes in the bank.

Going from Berserker to Ranger, again, should cost nothing to almost nothing. More in the bank.

Going from Ranger to Assassin will cost a few points. But a minor chunk out of your total pool at this point, which would easily be regained, and then some, by leveling up Assassin.

Assassin to Thief should be free, so no points. More in the bank.

Thief to Bard shouldn't cost too many points. A minor hit, with the investment regained by leveling Bard, with some extra.

You see where I'm going with this? By the time you get all the way to "Bard", you should *easily* have the attribute points banked up to meet Jester requirements. Assuming you class change at level 10-12. You're probably gonna have 500+ points banked. You'll be able to max out 3-4 attributes on your Jester. At the end of the road, you're left with a character who can do pretty much anything, music, weapon attacks with high skill, and lethal blow, can nuke mobs with spells, can heal, all the Sage support spells, etc. With enough HP to be an any-row character. No more squishy Aeorb Sage. You are now DEATH JESTER.

Basically, he recommends saving the extra attribute points before arriving at a Bard after several class changes - then use those extra attribute points on the Bard to reach the Jester requirements as the final class.
 

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