Grimoire Thread

[Rpguy]

My impression from the bard in my party is actually bad, first no race can be a "good" bard so no bonus points while everyone else in my party get a ton per level up and the fact that the music skill does not level up on its own at all makes it even worse. ( I started the game with the "fixed music skill )

And combat goes something like this:
PC 1 attacks
PC 2 attacks
Monster A attacks
Bard ( PC 3 ) sleeps monster A and monster B
PC 4 attacks - monster A wakes up
PC 5 attacks - monster B wakes up
Monster B attacks

I later switch to a paralyzing lyre and had the same results ( instead of sleep breaking the paralyze breaks... )
What am I missing here? how is this OP?

I think the Music skill still goes up with use, just not in every combat like before. As to the order of attack, well, have only spell casters attack after the Bard - spells don't wake up monsters.

My bard is level 3 all she is doing is spaming her instruments from day 1 , she gained exactly 0 points in music. Maybe you need an instruments that does damage to gain a skill point?

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Technically true for a live interview, Matt, but lets not forget those who blazed the trail before:

https://web.archive.org/web/19981206070529/http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/mud/564/grim02.htm
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8575

 

[Zep Zepo]

So...600 hours is 25 days playing 24/7

Game's only been out 14, and I doubt he's played 24/7 since 8/1.

So...50 hour game. (2 weeks * 4 hr a day I'm guessing). And that's not including forced restarts.

Zep--

 

[Maelflux]

So...600 hours is 25 days playing 24/7

Game's only been out 14, and I doubt he's played 24/7 since 8/1.

So...50 hour game. (2 weeks * 4 hr a day I'm guessing). And that's not including forced restarts.

Zep--

Did you think 600 hours would be the absolute MINIMUM required to complete the game?

 

[Rpguy]

Yeah those 600 hours don't really represent anything , Cleve also said wizardry 7 is 400 hours...

The question is, is it 50% bigger than wizardry 7?. That is basically what I expected.

 

[Lady_Error]

My bard is level 3 all she is doing is spaming her instruments from day 1 , she gained exactly 0 points in music. Maybe you need an instruments that does damage to gain a skill point?

I don't know, maybe Cleve lowered it too much. I was playing with 100 Music from the early version.

 

[DavidBVal]

Even if not banned anymore I can't post yet, maybe there's a timeout or something.

Anyways, Cleveland Mark Blakemore this is about the key looting crash, Not sure if you missed this or not among the reports:

Key I lifted off a monster crashing the game (but only after navigating to it in my inventory. I can play as long as I can't see the key on the inventory bar...)

looks icon related to me. Maybe you could foolproof the code related to obtaining the item images and re-assign them in case of an Exception being raised?

 

[Zep Zepo]

So...600 hours is 25 days playing 24/7

Game's only been out 14, and I doubt he's played 24/7 since 8/1.

So...50 hour game. (2 weeks * 4 hr a day I'm guessing). And that's not including forced restarts.

Zep--

Did you think 600 hours would be the absolute MINIMUM required to complete the game?

Yes, that's what he always suggested.

Zep--

 

[Lady_Error]

So...50 hour game. (2 weeks * 4 hr a day I'm guessing). And that's not including forced restarts.

Viata said it was around 90-100 hours for him in total and that's with all the early exploits, eg. Music going up to 100 right away.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Well if he kept the game updated...he would had had to restart 3 times. (or 2, I forget)

Zep--

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

So...600 hours is 25 days playing 24/7

Game's only been out 14, and I doubt he's played 24/7 since 8/1.

So...50 hour game. (2 weeks * 4 hr a day I'm guessing). And that's not including forced restarts.

Zep--

 

[DavidBVal]

My bard is level 3 all she is doing is spaming her instruments from day 1 , she gained exactly 0 points in music. Maybe you need an instruments that does damage to gain a skill point?

Raise INT and Wisdom to get skillups.

But yeah, maybe sleep does not raise skill, I just restarted and got 0 skillups with my bard up to level 2

 

[Lady_Error]

Well if he kept the game updated...he would had had to restart 3 times. (or 2, I forget)

Zep--

You can use the saves from version .1 in the current version. Only .6 and .7 saves don't work.

 

[Rpguy]

can anyone confirm he saw his music skill go up by itself after cleve fixed it?

 

[Streaming Instability]

Version 1.2.0.22
----------------------------------------

Morraha now wanders Kublai Cathedral after initial encounter to provide a way to get the password to the palace.

Interface fixes.

Wandering encounter adjustments.

ESCAPE key exits most dialogue windows now.

Brace yourselves for your daily dose of incline, folks.

 

[Brozef]

Oh, and two things I haven't seen mentioned earlier.

• It seems Fatal Blow doesn't proc on Metalsmiths. I have a party with a Berserker, Ranger and Metalsmith. At appr. 20 it started proccing reliably for the other two, but the Smith is shit outta luck. Could it be a bug or is there some interaction with other stats?
• Hide and Backstab are completely useless. Even with 100 Stealth my Thief can only hide if all enemies are CC'ed. If Backstab procs it also only does double damage, which seems pretty underwhelming. Maybe it will improve with levels (only around 20ish atm), but comparing it to the Serker it seems laughably bad.

... because I already had the complex code working and tested for casting an illusion, I sort of recycled it for stealth. Basically you have to fool every single monster in the opposing group when you go to hide. If a single one of them sees you then you can't hide. In review it is clearly way too grognard.

I think I am replacing this with another factor vs STEALTH skill with a more reasonable outcome very shortly. It's just too strict and no fun. I doubt if it would be that hard to hide in the middle of a battle and then backstab the opponents from hiding.

Sounds good. As long as it doesn't become too easy. But I am honestly fine with stealth as is. It might be useless against large groups of trashmobs but worthwhile against tougher single targets. Maybe make Backstab a "Use Power" Ability which let's you choose whom to attack? That would make it stand out as a melee ability without allowing for more cheese.

And on the topic of balance. I think the Bard wouldn't be an issue if Instruments wouldn't always cast at max level. Maybe have them cast at Music Skill/10-3? That would also stop ppl without Music Skill from using them. Or maybe have Instuments drop at various Power Levels. Though this could lead to when finding the 5th Level 1 Sleep Lute in a row... Then again Metalsmiths could get the ability to upgrade them...

Finally when giving Monsters more Resistances, I'd much prefer more variety instead of buffing them across the board. Have Undead be immune to Sleep (thereby making Hold Undead worth it), mindless creatures be immune to charm etc.... That would force players to use more of the toolkit, without neutering one class across the board.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Cleve my man, in case you haven't seen Baxander's video review:


Worth an un-ignore since he's now converted?

The guy spent months making up a story about backing the game and not getting a refund and trying to drive Cleve crazy. He's irredeemable.

hate to say it but his lets play actually was a major influence on me to spend hours of my time defending the game. it's a pretty good lets play all things considered too, actually pretty fun to watch. his anti-Cleve videos have <2000 views so I'd say that ultimately his influence has been positive, especially with him explicitly demonstrating to people that it's acceptable to admit you're wrong and change your opinion. the vast majority of people aren't even really cut out for such behavior. he might be dumb in some ways, however personally I would say he has been positive when you do a cost benefit analysis

Nah that's classic insane stalker behaviour. From week to the week the man is about as stable as Charles Manson. Now he's doing playthroughs after weeks of psychotic rages.

Even if it was temporary insanity he would have pulled the earlier videos down. It's not temporary. The dude is a 100% certified dangerous lazy-eye lunatic.

Police will tell you that when they claim they just want to be friends now is when you avoid them at all costs. That's when the acid attacks and the pet killing begins.

 

[Fargol]

Oh, and two things I haven't seen mentioned earlier.

• It seems Fatal Blow doesn't proc on Metalsmiths. I have a party with a Berserker, Ranger and Metalsmith. At appr. 20 it started proccing reliably for the other two, but the Smith is shit outta luck. Could it be a bug or is there some interaction with other stats?
• Hide and Backstab are completely useless. Even with 100 Stealth my Thief can only hide if all enemies are CC'ed. If Backstab procs it also only does double damage, which seems pretty underwhelming. Maybe it will improve with levels (only around 20ish atm), but comparing it to the Serker it seems laughably bad.

... because I already had the complex code working and tested for casting an illusion, I sort of recycled it for stealth. Basically you have to fool every single monster in the opposing group when you go to hide. If a single one of them sees you then you can't hide. In review it is clearly way too grognard.

I think I am replacing this with another factor vs STEALTH skill with a more reasonable outcome very shortly. It's just too strict and no fun. I doubt if it would be that hard to hide in the middle of a battle and then backstab the opponents from hiding.

Just my two cents, but logically I'd think it would be impossible to Hide if at least one monster plans to "target" that character, and therefore would be "looking" right at him (or her) prior to the round beginning. So, if none are targeting the thief, a "normal" roll against Hide would be thrown.

Not sure when you pick the monsters' targets so this might not be feasible.

 

[Biggus]

Cleve my man, in case you haven't seen Baxander's video review:


Worth an un-ignore since he's now converted?

The guy spent months making up a story about backing the game and not getting a refund and trying to drive Cleve crazy. He's irredeemable.

hate to say it but his lets play actually was a major influence on me to spend hours of my time defending the game. it's a pretty good lets play all things considered too, actually pretty fun to watch. his anti-Cleve videos have <2000 views so I'd say that ultimately his influence has been positive, especially with him explicitly demonstrating to people that it's acceptable to admit you're wrong and change your opinion. the vast majority of people aren't even really cut out for such behavior. he might be dumb in some ways, however personally I would say he has been positive when you do a cost benefit analysis

Nah that's classic insane stalker behaviour. From week to the week the man is about as stable as Charles Manson. Now he's doing playthroughs after weeks of psychotic rages.

Even if it was temporary insanity he would have pulled the earlier videos down. It's not temporary. The dude is a 100% certified dangerous lazy-eye lunatic.

Police will tell you that when they claim they just want to be friends now is when you avoid them at all costs. That's when the acid attacks and the pet killing begins.

Or he could have left them there intentionally, to demonstrate that first impressions aren't always right, and that some people actually can change their position with grace.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

 

[Irenaeus]

Just my two cents, but logically I'd think it would be impossible to Hide if at least one monster plans to "target" that character, and therefore would be "looking" right at him (or her) prior to the round beginning. So, if none are targeting the thief, a "normal" roll against Hide would be thrown.

Not sure when you pick the monsters' targets so this might not be feasible.

Maybe the monster got distracted by the Berserker cleaving his face!

 

[Mech]

can anyone confirm he saw his music skill go up by itself after cleve fixed it?

I can confirm it does not at all, no matter what instrument you use.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Didn't know Cleve Blakemore was that important!

 

[Danthar]

Oh, and two things I haven't seen mentioned earlier.

• It seems Fatal Blow doesn't proc on Metalsmiths. I have a party with a Berserker, Ranger and Metalsmith. At appr. 20 it started proccing reliably for the other two, but the Smith is shit outta luck. Could it be a bug or is there some interaction with other stats?
• Hide and Backstab are completely useless. Even with 100 Stealth my Thief can only hide if all enemies are CC'ed. If Backstab procs it also only does double damage, which seems pretty underwhelming. Maybe it will improve with levels (only around 20ish atm), but comparing it to the Serker it seems laughably bad.

... because I already had the complex code working and tested for casting an illusion, I sort of recycled it for stealth. Basically you have to fool every single monster in the opposing group when you go to hide. If a single one of them sees you then you can't hide. In review it is clearly way too grognard.

I think I am replacing this with another factor vs STEALTH skill with a more reasonable outcome very shortly. It's just too strict and no fun. I doubt if it would be that hard to hide in the middle of a battle and then backstab the opponents from hiding.

Yeah, if you imagine it as a bunch of people/monsters in close quarters combat, it doesn't even matter that you're not really hidden, you just need to circle to someone's back as they are engaged to one of your team mates and too focused to notice. This circling can still be translated into the game by the Hide roll. I think it would be useful as well if the Hide command would allow for extra attacks at times, just as if it was an attack, but with a penalty to lower that chance. But I'd try Hiding a lot more if there was even a small chance for a backstab hit right away.

Edit: didn't know that when hidden backstabs would be possible ever after, so that needs to be taken into account in the balance.