Grimoire Thread

[Night Goat]

Why are you people so desperate to suck Cleve's dick? He's a fucking malignant narcissist, and that people actually believe all his self-hype is baffling and disgusting.

 

[Kz3r0]

Here my Solomonic judgement:
felipepepe is right at being upset for the 100$ Cleveland Mark Blakemore scammed out og him on Indiegogo, on the other end he probably managed to cause hundreds of dollars of damage to Clevedue to the loss of perspective sales, that evens things out I guess.
And Felipepe review is obviously a worthless disgrace, not only due to personal but also because completely niss the point on everything, professional game journalism right there.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

I highlighted the key parts. People have the right to know what they're getting into.

So because the developer is not being honest the game is not recommended? You're conflating the game and the developer's behaviour and refusing to acknowledge the fact. And now you're calling me an idiot for not wanting a review based on how you personally have been treated. I've already bought the game so it's irrelevant to me, but if I hadn't and wanted to know if it was worth it I wouldn't consider this valuable.

 

[J_C]

Why are you people so desperate to suck Cleve's dick? He's a fucking malignant narcissist, and that people actually believe all his self-hype is baffling and disgusting.

It baffles me. Cleve started doing things on Steam only the scummiest devs like Digital Homocide are doing. Banning Steam keys, banning players from forums and deleting comments? That is the lowest a developer can sink.

The worst part is that since there is quality in the game and those who have played it have seen that there is great promise there, he should have just acted a bit humble, shut up his mouth and listen to the feedback, he would be heralded as a cRPG hero.

 

[Covenant]

Ultimately, in this sort of game, combat balance is the biggest draw for me. The puzzles, the writing and atmosphere, that exciting rush you get when you start to explore a freshly unlocked area - that's all great stuff. But I can find it, or something like it, elsewhere. But nothing else can scratch the itch for a finely-balanced blobber with turn-based combat. Nothing else lets me reap the sweet rewards of building my party specifically to utilise certain strategies, to counter certain threats at the cost of leaving myself open to others, and having it pay off dozens of hours later when I scrape through where I know others would have fallen.

The debate about 'broken' versus 'unbalanced' can go on forever, but at the end of the day, if the assertions Felipepepe made about balancing are true (and no one's disputed them as far as I've seen), then the game is still missing something very fundamental. And that seems a good reason to be called an Early Access title to me. Particularly given that Cleve's response seems to vacillate back and forth between 'Pshaw, no big deal, exploits are fun' and the more preferable 'Yeah, these are real problems and will be dealt with soon'.

 

[felipepepe]

I highlighted the key parts. People have the right to know what they're getting into.

So because the developer is not being honest the game is not recommended? You're conflating the game and the developer's behaviour and refusing to acknowledge the fact. And now you're calling me an idiot for not wanting a review based on how you personally have been treated. I've already bought the game so it's irrelevant to me, but if I hadn't and wanted to know if it was worth it I wouldn't consider this valuable.

No, I'm calling you an idiot because you refuse to understand basic logic.

I would recommend Grimoire as an Early Access title that's full of flaws and needs heavy balance.
I can't recommend Grimoire as a finished $40 game.

 

[gestalt11]

The game isn't balanced, but neither was Wizardry 8 which you could win with one character using a faerie bishop/ninja. However grimoire needs a second pass of tweaks, its essentially in an Open Beta stage. Whether Early Access means this or not is open for debate.

Note: I would say its in Open Beta stage not Closed Beta, and definitely past Alpha test. People use Early Access for all of these but Alpha is really far from Open Beta.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

No, I'm calling you an idiot because you refuse to understand basic logic.

Okay, fine. I'm an idiot. I'll try and read the review without prejudice and hope it was written in the same manner.

 

[Excidium II]

Just got gifted this game when is the megapatch coming out.

 

[DavidBVal]

Sorry, felipepepe, but I can't take that seriously given the well publicised spat between you and Cleve. If I want to buy the game I want to know about the game

The game is so unbalanced that it cannot possibly be called "finished". How's that not about the game? That's exactly the same opinion I held before all this drama - it's what got me banned in the first place.

Anyway, the review is finished. The staff decides what to do.

While I think banning you (and insulting you) was a big mistake and shitty behavior by Cleve, I think you must think about the Codex, about future review readers, and see the big picture. It's very likely the game will be much much more polished and fun in 2 months than it is now; why publish now a review about the (sic) "early access" version, which may become obsolete, and after having been down into the mud with Cleve? How useful would be that review? About as useful as a review of Darklands in 1992 calling it a buggy mess.

I would advise you to hold onto that review for at least a couple weeks and then decide.

 

[Roguey]

"Paraphrasing like an idiot" is a hilarious thing to say coming from a guy who was banned from the Grimoire forum for paraphrasing like an idiot. You will be precise when attributing things to Cleveland Mark Blakemore or you won't post at all.

empi Kz3r0 http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-to-be-successful.103562/page-13#post-4146926

Why are you people so desperate to suck Cleve's dick? He's a fucking malignant narcissist, and that people actually believe all his self-hype is baffling and disgusting.

It's hilarious.

 

[DeepOcean]

Ultimately, in this sort of game, combat balance is the biggest draw for me. The puzzles, the writing and atmosphere, that exciting rush you get when you start to explore a freshly unlocked area - that's all great stuff. But I can find it, or something like it, elsewhere. But nothing else can scratch the itch for a finely-balanced blobber with turn-based combat. Nothing else lets me reap the sweet rewards of building my party specifically to utilise certain strategies, to counter certain threats at the cost of leaving myself open to others, and having it pay off dozens of hours later when I scrape through where I know others would have fallen.

The debate about 'broken' versus 'unbalanced' can go on forever, but at the end of the day, if the assertions Felipepepe made about balancing are true (and no one's disputed them as far as I've seen), then the game is still missing something very fundamental. And that seems a good reason to be called an Early Access title to me. Particularly given that Cleve's response seems to vacillate back and forth between 'Pshaw, no big deal, exploits are fun' and the more preferable 'Yeah, these are real problems and will be dealt with soon'.

Personaly, if we were on the 90's and we had the luxury of choosing 10 different blobbers, I would be alot more demanding but right now we are bums that were thrown some leftovers and we are fighting that the taste could be better, in terms of blobbers, it is Grimoire and Bard's Tale IV and if you guise are so pissed off that Grimoire is far from perfect, some will be on suicide watch when Bard's Tale IV is released. Hope you guise like animu art because if you like blobbers and already played Wizardy 7 to death, only the japs will keep making them afterwards. On a positive note, we will have a VERY, VERY long time until a new western blobber that is actually decent to be released, so, we have plenty of time to wait for Cleve to fix Grimoire problems on the next 20 years.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

I see Bax is back on the hate wagon.

Ive read everything I could here and personally think Cleve should not have banned Felip and I think Felips original post that caused this shit was misconstrued in a way he didnt mean it, then Cleve reacted and then Felip got pissed and now we have a mexican standoff (Felip are you Mexican?) and both you guys are being stubborn as fuck.

This is not funny drama- Now that bax is back it might become funny drama but the shit between Cleve and Felip is just stupid.

You guys really should take it to PMs.

I'm waiting for V2 myself and I fucking love the game- Its not a knock against grimoire. Felip should have said what he wrote on steam here on the codex to begin with and I bet none of this shit would have happened- Now Felips pissed, Cleves pissed and I have no doubt this is going to reflect in what is supposed to be a prestigious codex review.

 

[Viata]

I thought there was no fun related to Grimoire until Cleve released V2. Boy, was I wrong.

 

[Viata]

some will be on suicide watch when Bard's Tale IV is released.

It's ok. I already bought my rope.

, only the japs will keep making them afterwards

If only they loved Wiz 7.

 

[Roguey]

Good news is that whichever positive review gets released will be the one the Codex curator links to because lol linking a recommended game to a review that concludes with "DON'T BUY, UNFINISHED, TOTALLY BROKEN, UNBALANCED."

 

[Sentinel]

Sorry, felipepepe, but I can't take that seriously given the well publicised spat between you and Cleve. If I want to buy the game I want to know about the game

The game is so unbalanced that it cannot possibly be called "finished". How's that not about the game? That's exactly the same opinion I held before all this drama - it's what got me banned in the first place.

Anyway, the review is finished. The staff decides what to do.

While I think banning you (and insulting you) was a big mistake and shitty behavior by Cleve, I think you must think about the Codex, about future review readers, and see the big picture. It's very likely the game will be much much more polished and fun in 2 months than it is now; why publish now a review about the (sic) "early access" version, which may become obsolete, and after having been down into the mud with Cleve? How useful would be that review? About as useful as a review of Darklands in 1992 calling it a buggy mess.

I would advise you to hold onto that review for at least a couple weeks and then decide.

I have an easy fix for this problem: re-review 2 years after the game has come out and is fully patched!

 

[felipepepe]

It's very likely the game will be much much more polished and fun in 2 months than it is now; why publish now a review about the (sic) "early access" version, which may become obsolete, and after having been down into the mud with Cleve? How useful would be that review? About as useful as a review of Darklands in 1992 calling it a buggy mess.

I would advise you to hold onto that review for at least a couple weeks and then decide.

There's a game being sold right now, a game people are curious about and want to know if they should buy.

If Grimoire gets fixed in two months, then let someone else write a new review two months from now - just like Grunker did with PoE.

 

[DeepOcean]

(Felip are you Mexican?)

He is brazillian, we are the improved version of a mexican.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

(Felip are you Mexican?)

He is brazillian, we are the improved version of a mexican.

hahahahahahah-

Then its a Brazilian standoff and there is still hope for us yet =)

 

[gestalt11]

I think this whole state of the game may be too vague for people so I am going to list out the things I have seen that put it at Open Beta:

1) Class changing is clearly not quite right and partially bugged. Jesters stats are implausible and various new class skills are not awarded on change. This can be fixed fairly easily but will require some serious thought on the devs parts as to the "Golidlocks" scenario. Since its not something that should take 5 iterations its an Open not a Closed Beta issue. Also reseting stats to race/class minimums seems like a bug or a poor design choice, but maybe that is intended.

2) Some skills don't seem to go up with use like one would expect. Again a fairly easy fix or at the very least clarification may be needed.

3) Some skills, particularly lethal blow, seem overly strong or work peculiarly (i.e. many people believe it only works when using both a lethal weapon and the skills, which is not what Cleve has described as intended). Further some of these skills seems to go up faster as they get higher, which is the opposite of Wizardry and probably not a great mechanic. Again this is a tweak and possibly a couple bugs not full on re-design. Granted the speed of skill-ups is tricky and may require more than one iteration especially with opposing interactions of WIS and INT

4) Various monsters may need some adjusting (typical shit in all Open Beta RPGs)

5) Certain classes (warrior and Thief) are utterly replaceable by classes that are superior in every way (as far as I know).

6) Various Bard instruments and possibly too good a spell list for bards making them Uber-Sages for spellcasting. I don't see much point in taking a Cleric over a bard when they have the same XP curve but bard gets instruments AND the entire Wizard spell list with the only downside being the 3 level delay.


This is not an exhaustive list but when you put it together just the combination of 3,5 & 6 is enough to seriously tilt gameplay to the point where people who want an OP party spam bard instruments (via bard or sage) and center all combat around CC and Lethal Blow procs. This is not really an opinion, its really just simple deduction performed after various people have researched these things and come with things like proc rates etc.

I therefore conclude the game is in an Open Beta state, which probably implies 2-3 iterations of tweaks.

 

[Viata]

(Felip are you Mexican?)

He is brazillian, we are the improved version of a mexican.

hahahahahahah-

Then its a Brazilian standoff and there is still hope for us yet =)

Only if the winner gets to eat some sopa de macaco uma delicia.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

I therefore conclude the game is in an Open Beta state, which probably implies 2-3 iterations of tweaks

Yes, it very obviously should have been early access, and the rapid updates since release demonstrate this fact. I still don't understand why Cleve was so opposed to EA, other than ego. Surely it would be obvious that it needed more work when people got to play it.

 

[gestalt11]

I therefore conclude the game is in an Open Beta state, which probably implies 2-3 iterations of tweaks

Yes, it very obviously should have been early access, and the rapid updates since release demonstrate this fact. I still don't understand why Cleve was so opposed to EA, other than ego. Surely it would be obvious that it needed more work when people got to play it.

I am not going to say it should be Early Access because that is completely vague term and people throw complete hissy fits because they expected it to mean Beta Test when the Dev meant Alpha Test or whatever.

Early Access is just a shit show unless the Developers are extremely clear about what the actual state of the game is in their eyes AND EVEN THEN most people won't listen or have no idea what the difference is between Beta and Alpha and just assign random ass expectations.

Personally I think the use of "Early Accees" just creates tons of problems. Doesn't mean I would not release a game on Steam under the Early Access label, but it does not solve problems (except possibly the need for money which might be enough of thing to make you do it), it creates more problems.

Edit: Also Steam forums in general are filled with dumbfucks, whinyass wusses, and flat out trolls. Cleve is almost certainly been driven clinically insane at this point. So don't take it to personally, Felipepepe. Not an excuse, its just the way it is. I hate reading steam forum for ANY game.

 

[mwnn85]

The worst part is that since there is quality in the game and those who have played it have seen that there is great promise there, he should have just acted a bit humble, shut up his mouth and listen to the feedback, he would be heralded as a cRPG hero.

Cleve.
Humility...


Worst PR ever - is there literally any person or group that Cleve doesn't take pleasure in offending? http://i.imgur.com/SzTpCjJ.png
There's the entire German market alienated.
...as well as anyone who doesn't wear new underwear.
Duct Tape anyone?

Massive potential - not sure we'll live to see any of it. Cleve isn't getting any younger either.
What's the lifespan of a Neanderthal?
It could match or exceed Wizardry with ease with a bit of tinkering.

A look through the Wizardry 6 manual wouldn't hurt:
http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/245410/manuals/Wizardry 6 - Manual.pdf?t=1466791308

Notice the Wizardry race table and how most of the combinations are viable.
http://i.imgur.com/ZHXDbEu.jpg

Unlike Grimoire where you need those starting bonus points hence only a handful of combinations are viable.
Some of the more interesting combinations need a ridiculous roll of 30+ or simply aren't viable at all i.e. half the classes can't even be used with certain races at all.

Why does the Sage get Lockpicking but the Thief gets even less and no Inspection. This is the greatest CRPG balance of all time?
http://imgur.com/a/lSQVx


Here's another bug/quirk I noticed in combat:
> If a character lands a killing blow on the final enemy in the front row group and gains extra bonus attacks - they lose all the bonus attacks when the second row of enemies move forward. The next character in the party takes his turn as normal.

You could argue that it's completely disingenuous to even compare both series currently at least on a quality basis - Wizardry has a proven track record i.e:
https://twitter.com/WingedExemplar/status/898353272678793216 (--> https://t.co/SaOKkSLIAn)

Bradley didn't take 20 years to make Wizardry 6 or 7 either.

Grimoire is mainly hot air, hyperbole, greatly exaggerated claims and insults.

Will he be able to resist pissing off Matt Barton too?