Grimoire Thread

[DeepOcean]

So, after 80hs playing, I finally finished Grimoire yesterday. I'll write a review later, but I wanted to give some feedback.

First and abov all, the game REALLY should've been marked as "Early Access". Yes, I finished and yes I had fun, but all that was despite numerous bugs, broken features and the total lack of balance - loot, XP, combat - nothing makes sense. After about 30hs playing combat had become such a broken mess I turned difficulty down to novice and started to cheese every single fight.

Map were also uneven. Some areas are amazing, which is why I kept playing, but others are clearly unfinished. The dungeon of the Ancients, for example, was moslty a bunch of empty halls with some wall plaques that can't be interacted with. Same for the extremely disssapointing Moravia Castle. The end-game is a return to form, full of fun things to do, but areas like the Bahomet Megalith and the Ruins of Gideon were a big drop in quality.

Still, Grimoire does have amazing moments - the makings of a great RPG is there, one that could surpass Wizardry VII with the proper polish and balance. My point is that people who are blindly starting it now will likely get frustrated and quit once they leave the first region.

Even after the manual arrives, I'd suggest people should only play as far as the first region for now. Wait for V2, a balance mod or something like that.

Cleve is a very delicate Neandertal if that's "aggressively trashing" a game.

Your post seems reasonable and focused on the issues and not trying to be edgy, Cleve was too radical on banning you, this post didn't deserve it but you should have avoided mentioning Early Access at all, Early Access many times is not understood as "good game that needs working" but "broken half incomplete game that won't ever be finished.", If I were on the place of Cleve, I would be butthurt as labeling the game Early Access might turn many uninformed steam users that would just dismiss it completely, his reaction was unjustifiable though.

What I took from your criticism is that the game has incomplete areas that feel like filler, has some bugs that while annoying, didn't stop you from finishing the game as you finished the game and the game was too unbalanced with some enemies attacks being too strong and turning those encounters on all or nothing RNG fests while you could cheese way too easily and needed to do it to win those all or nothing RNGs. Those are valid criticisms but applicable to alot of RPGs out there and I don't think they all deserve the Early Access title of shame.

Daggerfall is a buggy almost unplayable piece of software to this day, Morrowind could be so easily broken with alchemy that it was unbelievable, you could get rich with gambling on Fallout 1 with no investment through an exploit and buy all the best shit on the game as soon as you got to the Hub, you could become a unbeatable mage spamming a low level spell on Arcanum, half the skills are useless on most of those RPGs as welll... and the list goes on and on, but they are pretty good games. Even if they were released today they don't deserve the Early Access label, and be placed together with the sea of fraudsters that place their RPG maker game on Early Access. This is especially terrible for someone with low exposure and can't easily prove his game isn't like that garbage.

To Cleve's credit, he is dedicating himself alot to the game releasing alot of patches fixing bugs quickly, many people mentioned game breaking bugs when the game was released that he fixed very quickly.

About balance, I still remember instantaneous killing dragons on BG 2 with Chromatic orb barrages, level 1 spell, on the first round on BG 2 and I could name you lots of other exploits, still I had alot more fun with it than the balanced PoE. Is this truly a case of truly broken lack of balance or Sawyerism?

 

[Lord Andre]

Just a quick question - are WORMS supposed to inflict Disease every time they do damage?

Okay, a second quickie - If I Charm something, do the other characters know enough not to target it with anything?

Only one of the 2 types of worms(they look the same). Forget which ones. It should be rare though. Pool all your best gear on the front liners, even starting equipment, armor, shields etc. If you don't have apples (found sometimes by examining shrubs) or leeches (found in puddles) might as well reload at the beginning. The leeches do damage as they cure you. Stock up on apples from merchants or vending machines too until you get the spell. Disease is the only one that won't go away in time and will snowball into other afflictions.

Char don't know enough, you must manually manage row targeting or turn order via the speed attribute. Good news is charmed creatures can be hit with impunity and it won't break the spell 99% of the time. The other 1% are firebeetles who won't bite but might throw a fireball your way even while charmed. Maybe a glitch.

 

[Prime Junta]

From where I'm at, the issue isn't whether felipepepe's criticism was warranted or not.

It's whether Cleve's full-on chimpout, compleat with ban and threat to revoke Steam key, was warranted or not.

Spoiler

It was not.

 

[Pookie]

Every early-access game I bought has been totally bereft of content, or didn't even have an ending. I think early-access wouldn't be fitting at all.
Cleve has actually spent a considerable amount of time updating it.
One early access game I own (Ravenfield) gets updated once a month and it's hardly any content whatsoever and has no campaign.
The other early access game I own (Rodina) gets updated like twice a year and still doesn't have an ending.

 

[felipepepe]

labeling the game Early Access might turn many uninformed steam users that would just dismiss it completely

And what about the uniformed steam users that are spending $40 and investing hours into an unfinished game? A game that had to wipe save files in the first week due to bugs, FFS.

And yeah, Daggerfall is a buggy game - that's why every goddamn mention of it goes "Daggerfall is buggy BUT...."

Oddly, it seems like saying the same about Grimoire somehow is going too far.

 

[Reapa]

So, after 80hs playing, I finally finished Grimoire yesterday. I'll write a review later, but I wanted to give some feedback.

First and abov all, the game REALLY should've been marked as "Early Access". Yes, I finished and yes I had fun, but all that was despite numerous bugs, broken features and the total lack of balance - loot, XP, combat - nothing makes sense. After about 30hs playing combat had become such a broken mess I turned difficulty down to novice and started to cheese every single fight.

Map were also uneven. Some areas are amazing, which is why I kept playing, but others are clearly unfinished. The dungeon of the Ancients, for example, was moslty a bunch of empty halls with some wall plaques that can't be interacted with. Same for the extremely disssapointing Moravia Castle. The end-game is a return to form, full of fun things to do, but areas like the Bahomet Megalith and the Ruins of Gideon were a big drop in quality.

Still, Grimoire does have amazing moments - the makings of a great RPG is there, one that could surpass Wizardry VII with the proper polish and balance. My point is that people who are blindly starting it now will likely get frustrated and quit once they leave the first region.

Even after the manual arrives, I'd suggest people should only play as far as the first region for now. Wait for V2, a balance mod or something like that.

Cleve is a very delicate Neandertal if that's "aggressively trashing" a game.

Your post seems reasonable and focused on the issues and not trying to be edgy, Cleve was too radical on banning you, this post didn't deserve it but you should have avoided mentioning Early Access at all, Early Access many times is not understood as "good game that needs working" but "broken half incomplete game that won't ever be finished.", If I were on the place of Cleve, I would be butthurt as labeling the game Early Access might turn many uninformed steam users that would just dismiss it completely, his reaction was unjustifiable though.

What I took from your criticism is that the game has incomplete areas that feel like filler, has some bugs that while annoying, didn't stop you from finishing the game as you finished the game and the game was too unbalanced with some enemies attacks being too strong and turning those encounters on all or nothing RNG fests while you could cheese way too easily and needed to do it to win those all or nothing RNGs. Those are valid criticisms but applicable to alot of RPGs out there and I don't think they all deserve the Early Access title of shame.

Daggerfall is a buggy almost unplayable piece of software to this day, Morrowind could be so easily broken with alchemy that it was unbelievable, you could get rich with gambling on Fallout 1 with no investment through an exploit and buy all the best shit on the game as soon as you got to the Hub, you could become a unbeatable mage spamming a low level spell on Arcanum, half the skills are useless on most of those RPGs as welll... and the list goes on and on, but they are pretty good games. Even if they were released today they don't deserve the Early Access label, and be placed together with the sea of fraudsters that place their RPG maker game on Early Access. This is especially terrible for someone with low exposure and can't easily prove his game isn't like that garbage.

To Cleve's credit, he is dedicating himself alot to the game releasing alot of patches fixing bugs quickly, many people mentioned game breaking bugs when the game was released that he fixed very quickly.

About balance, I still remember instantaneous killing dragons on BG 2 with Chromatic orb barrages, level 1 spell, on the first round on BG 2 and I could name you lots of other exploits, still I had alot more fun with it than the balanced PoE. Is this truly a case of truly broken lack of balance or Sawyerism?

ffs. how often do i have to state the obvious until every moron gets it?
a fucking turn based blobber is all about combat. it's supposed to be tactical. if the combat aspect is fucked, the blobber is fucked.
comparing morrowind, daggerfall, arcanum and bg2 to blobbers is retarded. they had completely different core elements.
whenever you defend overpowered crap in a turn based party based game you deserve the fucking awesome button you get with all the other games.

 

[Fowyr]

Firewalking is not saved in save game, so when you load it - you get firewalking icon on the screen, but not the protection.
Also pathwalking from lava cell results in this:

At least be a little more humble with a game which is a broken mess ATM.

Putting Cleve's antics aside, his game is perfectly playable as it. Yep, it has bugs, but they can't broke my enjoyment.
Kids these days...

 

[Latro]

Felipepepe likes proper RPG

ya shit like undertale and is seemingly unaware of basic wiz 7 late-game encounters

 

[vdweller]

 

[Roguey]

What a Baxander.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

If for no other reason, every dev should release to early access because:

- people are more forgiving
- you get to capitalize on two releases

This place generally ranges from good to shit show when it comes to reviews but in his particular case there is now conflict of interest, at least if the site gives any fucks whatsoever about credibility (probably not).

Have to see how it plays out. I guess it depends on whether the review is presented as editorial. If not let er rip.

Felipe seems generally sane though so I expect he will be fairly objective even though he has reason not to be.

 

[Roguey]

- you get to capitalize on two releases

I recall reading that this isn't true. With EA, your big sales burst is only the first time around. There's no release bump, at least not a significant one.

 

[Grauken]

No, lots of people don't buy early access at all, if your game is almost ready and has no major issues left, then a proper release makes more sense

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

- you get to capitalize on two releases

I recall reading that this isn't true. With EA, your big sales burst is only the first time around. There's no release bump, at least not a significant one.

Probably right, I don't really track those those things.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Grimoire drama is usually fun, but this particular tempest is a bit sad really, as FP was quite a supporter of the game in the past. Ah well, it seems the butthurt is now entrenched on both sides.

 

[DeepOcean]

Grimoire drama is usually fun, but this particular tempest is a bit sad really, as FP was quite a supporter of the game in the past. Ah well, it seems the butthurt is now entrenched on both sides.

Guess another codexian cicle is complete.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

On some level we have to be amazed that it is as good as it is and that none of the issues seems unfixable.

I take a long view on things. In the final analysis Grimoire will be a classic.

 

[Taxnomore]

I like this thread. It fails to surprise in any way, everything happening here has been absolutely predictable from the very start, but it is still enjoyable to read. Please continue.

 

[DeepOcean]

Only thing lacking is a Roxor style review saying Grimoire is banal, shit boring and the RPG codex is complete.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

Unfortunately rather churlish. Changing the review after 80 hours is reviewing the developer not the game. It looks like the Official Codex Review is going to be compromised for reasons that have little to do with the game.

 

[DavidBVal]

I like this thread. It fails to surprise in any way, everything happening here has been absolutely predictable from the very start, but it is still enjoyable to read. Please continue.

What's your prediction then, that it's never coming out?

 

[Prime Junta]

It looks like the Official Codex Review is going to be compromised for reasons that have little to do with the game.

I am shocked. Shocked!

 

[vdweller]

Unfortunately rather churlish. Changing the review after 80 hours is reviewing the developer not the game. It looks like the Official Codex Review is going to be compromised for reasons that have little to do with the game.

In the end, it may be impossible to separate the creator from the creation. It's like trying to separate Bruce Wayne from Batman. They are both the same thing: A being of fiction, created for the entertainment of virgins.

 

[Roguey]

It looks like the Official Codex Review is going to be compromised for reasons that have little to do with the game.

Cleve's the Shkreli of RPG developers, it's going to be difficult finding someone with a neutral view.

In the meantime, perhaps a True BeClever can finish Grimoire and bang out a review before Felipe finishes his, or at the very least provide one shortly after.

 

[turbo elephant]

Just when it seemed the Grimoire drama was dying off
So if Felipe is switching from the neutral-positive to Roxor review, who's up for doing the Decado one? (I humbly volunteer for the Roguey Retrospective in a couple of years)

Grimoire continues to be award winning drama. It's basically my (almost) daily soap opera. The gift that keeps on giving.

Best 33 euros ever spent.