Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Game News Grimrock devs reform as Ctrl Alt Ninja to create Druidstone, a procedurally generated turn-based RPG

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
I can understand. I'm sure it's easier/cheaper to push something like this out and get money coming in than it is to make a more in-depth and arguably more niche version of Grimrock.
 

Melan

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
6,968
Location
Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae, Hungary
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. I helped put crap in Monomyth
I can understand. I'm sure it's easier/cheaper to push something like this out and get money coming in than it is to make a more in-depth and arguably more niche version of Grimrock.
The first Legend of Grimrock sold a respectable 900,000 copies, while the second apparently apparently sold much less (250,000 on Steam). I have no concrete numbers to back this up, but it seems to be the hearsay on the net. To go even more niche may not be a viable strategy.

Too bad this new project looks utterly generic, with a gimmick mechanic that may or may not save it.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,099
Yes, every time the subject of the Grimrock series' sales is brought up, it's always in terms of units sold rather than revenue. Unfortunately, it seems that no-one (aside from the developers) knows how much revenue either the first or the second Grimrock amassed, which makes comparison less than meaningful in an era of digital downloads, steep discounts, and bundles.
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
Legend of Grimrock 2 sold 375k, which isn't exactly a 0-profit game. Few indie RPGs sell almost 400k. So while it's a lot less than what LoG sold, it's not something to dismiss and start exploring a different genre. They should have developed the concept further and added towns, characters, quests, etc.
they should have developed it further by switching to turn based combat first, then increasing party size and then add towns, characters and quests.
but the discussion is pointless, obviously there were a few people on the team who didn't understand shit about what brought them success and are doing now an idiotic single character roguelike/lite for mobile.
it's a good thing that they split up if that's what some of them wanted to work on.
maybe Almost Human is now looking for replacements to work on Grimrock 3.
 

commie

The Last Marxist
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
1,865,260
Location
Where one can weep in peace
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Wasn't a lot of the 900k from the bundles, which goes for much cheaper?

LOG2 was bundled as well a couple of times, including in a Humble Monthy subscription. In light of that, real singular sales would appear even worse compared to the first game which at least got a lot of mainstream press before it was released that helped a lot with initial interest.

I actually bought LOG2 the second time it was bundled for a dollar. Don't have the first game either.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,595
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I wonder what TalesfromtheCrypt thinks about Codexers' preference for a real-time dancing simulator blobber over a turn-based tactical game

P.S. People who think the Legend of Grimrock formula could be improved with "quests" remind me of those game journalists in the early 90s who asked why you couldn't talk to the monsters in Doom.
 
Last edited:

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,751
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
I played LoG till the end. It's one of those memorable games which are actually broken when it comes to mechanics (the ridiculous skill / spell system) but you can't stop playing them (at least I couldn't). Once you accept the waltz, it seems that the already good game could be really improved if the stat / spell system was better thought through and there was a tiny bit of lore more. (Maybe 2 or 3 EoB-style quests to give the dungeon more flavour.) You could see that the guys know how to make a blobber, they could've just polished the formula.

(I bought LoG2 but didn't play it since they decided not to do a Linux port.)


Now, of course, the question is: is this new thing 'real turn based' or roguelike style 'I move 1 step, you move 1 step'?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
I wonder what TalesfromtheCrypt thinks about Codexers' preference for a real-time dancing simulator blobber over a turn-based tactical game

P.S. People who think the Legend of Grimrock formula could be improved with "quests" remind me of those game journalists in the early 90s who asked why you couldn't talk to the monsters in Doom.
Talking to monsters in a shooter is pure nonsense. Having NPCs and quests in a blobber is not. Even Dungeon Master had traders, which added something to the game.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
LoG2 had sort-of-NPCs (stone faces) and implicit quests (in the form of inventory-based puzzles spread across areas). Doing much more than that would ruin the atmosphere and sense of exploration (as it did in other quest-based RPGs).
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,595
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm not sure if people clicked CryptRat's link: http://www.grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6865&p=98177#p98173

agreed, which is on the other side quite unfortunate, I hoped for some real open-world with NPC´s, shops, quests etc...
BUT, from my view I belive Log 3 could compete with many other RPG "open-world" games, it could be even better with a good story and level design (you can always hire some people which have this experience). It is just matter of money at this state, question is if it is worthy or not. Hell... we are missing some good RPG game in dungeon master style with good graphic. Was there some since...wizardry ?
Well... I am curios if Log3 wil come out one day.

It's not about money. LOG1 and LOG2 are how they are because of our preferences and vision of what kind of game we wanted to make. Even if we had 10x the budget, Grimrock games would not be modern open world (quest-based) games, which I personally don't find very interesting. In the early days of LOG2 development we tried to move into this direction, but found out we didn't like where that was leading us.

The best open world games for me are Ultima IV, Ultima V and ascii roguelikes, which tell simple stories on the surface but have compelling world and gameplay. Unfortunately translating these games into modern form is hard as you always seem to lose a lot of their appeal. The abstraction in these games is a really powerful tool for unlocking player's imagination. Ok, but now I'm starting to ramble...

It just rubs me the wrong way when it's implied that every game secretly yearns to be a disguised Black Isle RPG
 
Last edited:

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
It just rubs me the wrong way when it's implied that every game secretly yearns to be a disguised Black Isle RPG
You mean like MMX and Wizardry 8?

As for the link:

It's not about money. LOG1 and LOG2 are how they are because of our preferences and vision of what kind of game we wanted to make. Even if we had 10x the budget, Grimrock games would not be modern open world (quest-based) games, which I personally don't find very interesting. In the early days of LOG2 development we tried to move into this direction, but found out we didn't like where that was leading us.
No idea what that means. First, LoG is as close to an open world game as one can get it with a blobber, second, "quest-based" games aren't a modern invention. See Daggerfall.

Talking to monsters in a shooter is pure nonsense. Having NPCs and quests in a blobber is not. Even Dungeon Master had traders, which added something to the game.

You should add romances to Age of Decadence 2, it would really add something to the game.
Same thing?
 

Andhaira

Arcane
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
1,869,093
So they are making Eschalon 4, but with less customization?

Anyhow I never got the stupidity of making a party based REAL TIME game (LoG 1 & 2) but a single PC TURN BASED game...

People who think this makes sense are mentally deficient
 

l3loodAngel

Proud INTJ
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
1,452
Legend of Grimrock 2 sold 375k, which isn't exactly a 0-profit game. Few indie RPGs sell almost 400k. So while it's a lot less than what LoG sold, it's not something to dismiss and start exploring a different genre. They should have developed the concept further and added towns, characters, quests, etc.
they should have developed it further by switching to turn based combat first, then increasing party size and then add towns, characters and quests.
but the discussion is pointless, obviously there were a few people on the team who didn't understand shit about what brought them success and are doing now an idiotic single character roguelike/lite for mobile.
it's a good thing that they split up if that's what some of them wanted to work on.
maybe Almost Human is now looking for replacements to work on Grimrock 3.
It could be just a financial gig. Make new subsidiaries to not lose IPs and other assets that you have in case of bankruptcy or for screwing other owners/creditors. It's a hip thing now.

It could even be same people who are sitting in the same chairs just with different contracts.
 

Andhaira

Arcane
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
1,869,093
This game has actually been kinda done, 20 years ago:

6950-druid-daemons-of-the-mind-dos-front-cover.jpg
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,431
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
Wasn't expecting a turn-based game from these guys. Curious about this.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom