Harebrained Schemes reformed as indie studio under Mike McCain, teasing a new game called GRAFT

[MjKorz]

The setting literally can't function without them.

That doesn't make them Mary Sues. They are simply the central element of the setting.

If Shadowrun dragons weren't Mary Sues, there'd be an alternative solution to saving the world while dragons go extinct, but there isn't.

Umm... no? Point is characters didn't even know there was a different threat to be stopped and that setting contains only dragons as creatures of comparable power doesn't make them any kind of Mary Sue. They have diverse personalities and indeed, the setting very readily depicts them as ruthless, greedy and power-hungry. Not exactly a fit for the definition of lacking any meaningful character flaws.

Hong Kong party members surviving and participating in the post-game campaign are a consequence of your previous actions in and of itself.

Yeah, no. They do not affect how the story resolves in any way, all they offer is their banter, that's like saying having to choose 3 out of 5 possible companions is choices and consequences.

They're Mary Sues, because going against them is wrong by definition since killing them results in an inevitable end of the world. They are literally always in the right by definition and if you think they're in the wrong, you're just not "wise" enough. Like I said: if they weren't Mary Sues, there would've been an alternative solution to stopping the world ending threat. If you kill them, the game just gives you a giant fuck you and laughs in your face since you dared to go against the setting's Mary Sues.

And the characters in Hong Kong post-game campaign do provide mechanical changes to certain encounters, the consequences of their survival are not purely cosmetic.

Spoiler

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.harebrained-schemes.com/blog/01-indie-again

It builds on the best of the studio’s history while still being something new and compelling in the strategy space.

https://www.harebrained-schemes.com...n-the-creative-process-and-narrative-in-games

In an RPG like Shadowrun, the story is a large part of the game's selling point, but narrative can be just as important in the tactics game space.

Still not an RPG!

 

[Roguey]

HBS apparently finding a publisher for their proof-of-concept demo certainly isn't making Draw Distance look good for being unable to find one for a game that's been in development for years and only needs 1-2 years more work.

They have a garage dev-sized team so yeah an RPG would likely be way out-of-scope.

 

[Marat]

They're Mary Sues, because going against them is wrong by definition since killing them results in an inevitable end of the world.

Again, that's not what a Mary Sue is. And it is only one dragon that is essential to preventing the insect spirit invasion, because he sacrifices his life to stop it.

They are literally always in the right by definition and if you think they're in the wrong, you're just not "wise" enough. Like I said: if they weren't Mary Sues, there would've been an alternative solution to stopping the world ending threat. If you kill them, the game just gives you a giant fuck you and laughs in your face since you dared to go against the setting's Mary Sues.

You're literally mad at a plot point. That is simply the setting. Doesn't make the dragons Mary Sues - you don't know what that means.

Spoiler

That is a purely cosmetic interaction, there is a way to not enter combat here or even not enter the room altogether.

 

[almondblight]

So, they've been posting blogs since January and nobody noticed. For shame, Codex.

Check a few posts back:

Hmm...so apparently Weisman's gone, Gitelman's taken a step back, Mike McCain has returned, and Andrew McIntosh is still there. That actually makes me a bit curious about what they're making.

 

[MjKorz]

They're Mary Sues, because going against them is wrong by definition since killing them results in an inevitable end of the world.

Again, that's not what a Mary Sue is. And it is only one dragon that is essential to preventing the insect spirit invasion, because he sacrifices his life to stop it.

They are literally always in the right by definition and if you think they're in the wrong, you're just not "wise" enough. Like I said: if they weren't Mary Sues, there would've been an alternative solution to stopping the world ending threat. If you kill them, the game just gives you a giant fuck you and laughs in your face since you dared to go against the setting's Mary Sues.

You're literally mad at a plot point. That is simply the setting. Doesn't make the dragons Mary Sues - you don't know what that means.

Spoiler

That is a purely cosmetic interaction, there is a way to not enter combat here or even not enter the room altogether.

A Mary Sue cannot be wrong by definition. Dragons cannot be in the wrong, because going against them results in the end of the world. The only reason why you would even want to go against dragons is lack of understanding how the setting works (i.e. lack of wisdom I mentioned earlier). You are correct in the sense that dragons being Mary Sues is baked into the setting.

The interaction I've shown is not cosmetic, because Gaichu serves as a unique trigger to initiate combat that is not available to those who do not bring him or those who did not have him survive in their game. It is true that there are alternative ways to initiate combat and ways to avoid combat with or without Gaichu, but those are alternatives and Gaichu does provide mechanical interactions. Another of his interactions I seem to remember is near the elevator in another area of the module.

EDIT: Also, you keep repeating an erroneous statement that only one Dragon (Dunkelzahn) is essential which is not true. Dunkelzahn sacrificing himself to stop the horrors from coming via the astral bridge is just one instance of dragons opposing the horrors and Dunkelzahn's death did not eliminate the horror threat for all time, only delayed its arrival. The thing is, dragons are the only ones in the setting who are powerful and wise enough to oppose the horrors and if you keep killing the dragons even after Dunkelzahn's successful sacrifice, eventually the horrors will break through and end the world.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

I see that many of you view HS through the prism of the RPG drought of the 2010s and their Kickstrter victories in 2014. And I remember them mainly for introducing this:

 

[MjKorz]

I see that many of you view HS through the prism of the RPG drought of the 2010s and their Kickstrter victories in 2014. And I remember them mainly for introducing this:

I cared about the SJW shit for whole 5 minutes before I got myself a shiny 'mech and started blasting walking salvage.

 

[NwNgger]

Dragonfall is much better written and designed. It's not even close.

HK is a pale imitation of Dragonfall. It has a few interesting ideas, but never does much with them. Gaichu and Racter are good ideas for companions, but the weak writing leaves them half-baked. There are a few interesting premises for missions, but the design of the missions and combat encounters is so much worse than Dragonfall, making most of them boring and forgettable.

Hmm...so apparently Weisman's gone, Gitelman's taken a step back, Mike McCain has returned, and Andrew McIntosh is still there. That actually makes me a bit curious about what they're making.

I liked how HK was very open ended and gave you choices for different runs to take. That's the nicest thing I can say about it. The writing was an omnious foreshadowing of the laughably bad writing we'd see in Battletech.

I would be very interested in a Cyberpunk or Shadowrun game with Daggerfall proc gen cities and quests. Similar to Shadows of Doubt. Just let me immerse myself in a cool Cyberpunk sandbox and I'll be happy.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

I see that many of you view HS through the prism of the RPG drought of the 2010s and their Kickstrter victories in 2014. And I remember them mainly for introducing this:

I cared about the SJW shit for whole 5 minutes before I got myself a shiny 'mech and started blasting walking salvage.

Then you noticed performance issues, right?

 

[Stoned Ape]

Battletech tournament multiplayer (with stock mechs) was awesome, the most fun online multiplayer game I've played (Bloodbowl in 2nd place).

I wish they'd supported the multiplayer better, if there had been an official leader board and ranked matchmaking it would have been incredible.

 

[Tyranicon]

Best of luck to them. Maybe now that they're "indie" again they can make some good shit.

 

[fantadomat]

HK is the best shadowrun game,only midwits dislike it.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

I see that many of you view HS through the prism of the RPG drought of the 2010s and their Kickstrter victories in 2014. And I remember them mainly for introducing this:

I cared about the SJW shit for whole 5 minutes before I got myself a shiny 'mech and started blasting walking salvage.

My impressions were completely different. The ingredients were good, but I feel like they were implemented in a clumsy way. I could say the same about their Shadowrun games.

And the stories of these games were simply boring.

 

[Rean]

only waifusimps praise DF for its companions

Hello

 

[La vie sexuelle]

only waifusimps praise DF for its companions

Hello

So two out of five people who remember this game draw fanart?

 

[Rean]

It's not fanart, those are photos.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

It's not fanart, those are photos.

Yes. Just like your photo in your avatar.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Eh Dragonfall is just a better experience in general.

HK was too verbose for its own good and it really hurts the experience playing it. Rather than writing those verbose descriptions nobody cares about when talking to NPC the game would benefit much much better just getting more random NPC you can talk to between missions.

HK does have a better technical aspect in general and I really like what they are doing with Duncan and giving you options to agree with him within the context of the story (You are not ID less and forced to live in Shadow to survive a setup). Being able to say "fuck this shit I am out" in the DLC ending and used your experience as Shadowrunner to run a good security company instead is a very good thematic choice.

 

[ropetight]

I love the wacky magic cyberpunk setting of Shadowrun; gave me some Arcanum vibes with clashing of tech and magic.
And I loved Crimson Skies, which was designed by Jordan Weisman.
So, I backed all of the Shadowrun games when I still did that.
I'm not sorry for it, don't feel cheated, but I expected much more.

Liked the concept, setting, and iso graphics.
Missions were okayish, tactical gameplay was not that great, but there was some depth there.
Most of the maps had one or couple of gotchas that kept things interesting (but also made you looking for that gotcha on every mission, because there will be one).
Hub and city gameplay was rudimentary - followed strict formula and felt like a chore, unnecessary prolonged tutorials.
Interaction with the world and the NPC's seemed like it was AI generated 10 years before the tech.
Exploration was almost nonexistent and felt lik you are in the smallest sandbox of all the sandboxes, except you didn't have much to do in it - which is a shame for such a interesting setting.
Not once I wished for a way to skip the hub and stuff I usually don't have problem with, hell, I even enjoy it - talking to the NPC's, getting sidqeuests, refilling consumables, upgrading everything you can and preparing party and loadouts.
And every subsequent game got bigger wall of lore text and dialogues that were not that good.

Always had the feeling the Shadowrun games could be so much more.
I know that budget for the games was not that much, and Harebrained went with realistic approach, avoided scope bloat and finished their games.
But, after all the games from 10-15 years before that did all things that Shadowrun does better and with more ingenuity, it felt underwhelming.
Haven't played SNES installment from 1993, but it also seems like a richer and more fleshed out experience - which is disheartening.
20 years of tech progress gave us less of a game, and that is decline.
Not steepest one, but still decline.

 

[Zanzoken]

None of the HBS Shadowrun games are good.

I don't want to sit around chatting with a bunch of emofag Bioware companions about our feelings.

I want to assemble a team, take on dangerous missions, and get paid.

They should have invested their effort into making a more freeform campaign with a lot of cool mission designs and a more system-based way to progress the game, rather than writing gay characters that no one cares about or remembers.

tl;dr Forget about HBS and play Cyber Knights Flashpoint instead.

 

[Zanzoken]

Imagine if all of the gameplay resources that went into the three not-Bioware Shadowrun campaigns had gone into making the game like this instead.

 

[MjKorz]

None of the HBS Shadowrun games are good.

I don't want to sit around chatting with a bunch of emofag Bioware companions about our feelings.

I want to assemble a team, take on dangerous missions, and get paid.

They should have invested their effort into making a more freeform campaign with a lot of cool mission designs and a more system-based way to progress the game, rather than writing gay characters that no one cares about or remembers.

tl;dr Forget about HBS and play Cyber Knights Flashpoint instead.

Should've played this then:

Shadowrun can accommodate both types of games: mission-based turn-based-tactics and RPGs with expansive dialogue trees and character focus.

 

[almondblight]

Imagine if all of the gameplay resources that went into the three not-Bioware Shadowrun campaigns had gone into making the game like this instead.

Shadowrun Returns actually had a great community that a had a much better sense of what the game should be than HBS did. It's too bad they made modding such a pain, a lot of people were willing to put a lot of work into it, but it was unstable and doing anything with persistence was apparently a huge pain. It's hard to tell how much the silly idea of making it compatible with mobile hurt it (you can definitely see the mobile design in the UI).

While the first game was actually on rails (so much so that people thought it couldn't handle things like entering and exiting buildings), modders had actually created open world mods before the game officially released. Though not the most amazing mod, here's the open world Life on a Limb, which was made in ~2 months by one modder and released a week before the first campaign:



I don't know how to feel about HBS, because on the one hand they did make the engine and editor in a little over a year. But they also screwed up persistence and didn't use the editor as well as modders (and then the small "B" team that made Dragonfall were able to use the editor to a much greater effect in just a few months).

 

[Hellraiser]

They're naming their new game GRIFT and returning to being indie? I guess that means there will be crowdfunding and they'll again fuck over backers by selling themselves to a publisher again and having near day 1 DLC the backers won't even get a discount for.