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Hearthstone

Andhaira

Arcane
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
1,869,070
It's like Flame Leviathan, except it damages your own board, which for warrior can be a good thing sometimes. For instance, aside from triggering patrons, it be used for battle rage to draw a large number of cards.

Unfortunately the fact that you have no control over it makes it suck really bad. It also announces to your opponent you have this card in hand. Honestly Demonsteed is better than this in constructed.
 

UglyBastard

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
821
New Shaman card:

635748927803251086.png


Interesting. You probably won't win the joust against anything that isn't face cancer, but that might be enough anyway. If you get this off for 14 against Hunter, it probably single-handedly wins the game. Good card.

Will be pretty fun to Thoughtsteal this and combo it with Auchenai. :)
 
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Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Re: Warrior Card -- That it acts like Flame Leviathan makes it bad. Maybe if it had a little more going for it but right now it's an ogre that could help you 50% of the time or possibly screw you 50% of the time.

Re: Shaman Heal -- it's not bad but do you waste a deck slot on a heal? Maybe?
 

UglyBastard

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
821
Re: Shaman Heal -- it's not bad but do you waste a deck slot on a heal? Maybe?

If you don't play Aggromech Shaman, you are pretty much forced to run Healbot. This heals more than Healbot in the matchups where you need heal the most. So yeah, it's worth a deck slot in Midrange/Control Shaman for sure. The only thing left to be determined is if that archetype is any good overall. If it is, it will run this card.
 

Seari

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
849
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yes you do, because fuck hunters. Also Malygos shaman with ancestral call <3.
 

Phage

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
4,696
This is top zzz

If you are facing the huntard deck, you almost definitely need to win the joust. The problem is the only deck that can almost always win jousts vs face hunter is Ramp Druid (by always I mean 90%, probably lower after darnassus aspirant gets added). Unless I'm mistaken, midrange shaman will win about 60% of the time. Unlike the 5/5 Joust Heal card, if this misses, you're playing a worse healing touch.

Healbot is still better. Consistently goes off for an extra health, and leaves the body to kill something with (kind of healing ~11 total if you think about it) - also worth pointing out that generally on turn 3 you need to play a creature vs face hunter, and turn 5 is moreso the sweet spot to get a heal and lock up the game.
 

UglyBastard

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
821
The body of Healbot is irrelevant in this matchup, it's not about card advantage. You will win or lose before you run out of cards, so the healing being cheaper and able to be comboed with something more useful is not a drawback (in this MU). Obviously this sux hard vs Control (worse than Healbot). If the Joust goes off, you immediately win.

This is not meant to be played on turn 3, so I don't know why it being a shitty on curve play matters at all.
 

Andhaira

Arcane
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
1,869,070
New Shaman card:

635748927803251086.png


Interesting. You probably won't win the joust against anything that isn't face cancer, but that might be enough anyway. If you get this off for 14 against Hunter, it probably single-handedly wins the game. Good card.

Will be pretty fun to Thoughtsteal this and combo it with Auchenai. :)

Good card, Shaman is getting some love with TGT, same with Druid.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Even against an aggro deck you could still lose the joust. So worst case scenario it's 7 health for 3 mana. How many druids play Healing Touch? Yes, they get a modest amount of armor but usually not enough that it makes a difference.

No, it's not about card advantage it's about board control. And having nothing in-play against a rush deck is a sure way to lose. For the cost of heal bot you're 'comboing' this with a 2 drop. That doesn't get you much. and usually not a 3/3.

Edit: Okay, well, it can get you Totem Golem which is a 3/4! Of course there's no guarantee you have that or a decent 2 drop in your hand when you use the heal.

It's not a bad card but it's not a slam dunk, either.
 
Last edited:

Phage

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
4,696
The body of Healbot is irrelevant in this matchup, it's not about card advantage. You will win or lose before you run out of cards, so the healing being cheaper and able to be comboed with something more useful is not a drawback (in this MU). Obviously this sux hard vs Control (worse than Healbot). If the Joust goes off, you immediately win.

This is not meant to be played on turn 3, so I don't know why it being a shitty on curve play matters at all.



The body is relevant though because it will clear a minion the next turn, thus effectively healing you further in the long term. After you recover 8 HP on turn 5, the Hunter likely won't be killing you Turn 6 unless you were AFK for the first 4 turns. Having a huge heal is more important vs a deck like Freeze Mage, but you aren't necessarily going to win that joust (high chance they pull an alex or something)

I should've been more clear on my curve point - I was preemptively explaining why this card being cheaper than healbot doesn't matter (not saying that's an issue you brought up)

The way I see this is

Healbot:
+ Always heals 8
+ Always leaves a 3/3 body which will likely effectively heal another ~3
+ Better in more matchups

Healing Wave
+ Can heal more versus one specific matchup (about 60% chance)
+ Is cheaper
- 40% chance it heals less than healbot and leaves no body
- Will usually just Heal 7 for a card against everyone else


(note: my joust percentages may be off. I was using the Mid Hunter stats from this chart https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/3fwffh/joust_odds/ since Midrange Hunter has a comparable mana curve to Midrange Shaman, presuming you're playing the version with flametongues, creepers, mana tide, etc)

I don't really see why you'd run this card over healbot tbh.
 

UglyBastard

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
821
I think this whole thing hinges on how likely you will win the Joust, it's very hard to evaluate without the set being released and a view into the meta.

Will there be a high enough chance to pull this off consistently? We will see.

btw. it's not bad against Freeze, the only two big minions they play are Archmage and Alex, and at least Alex was played before you use this (maybe both or Antonidas is held in hand). The rest of the deck's minion base consists of Scientists, Doomsayers and Acolytes (maybe cycle like Loothoarder). Actually a high chance to heal 14 for gg.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,840
I don't know why people keep using those charts when they don't account for when you would be jousting. Handlocks keep a lot of high-mana cards in-hand. It's hard to win a joust when your molten isn't sitting in your deck. So right off the bat, that puts a large dent in their numbers. For other decks, by the time you get to these Jousty cards you'll be, say, 5-6mana in (just for shits and giggles). By that time, a lot of the low-mana minions in your deck should have already been played. Facedecks like Hunter are all low-mana, so unless your mulligans were complete ass your odds to win a Joust only go up as the game goes on and, as has been said, I don't think this card was meant to be played on curve to begin with. Overall, though... can't discount a potential 14-HP for 3-mana. That's a lotta juice.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Most of the time you can't combo healbot with anything. Yeah, if you play this on 5 together with a 3 drop you get 1 less attack or 1 less health but potentially a more useful minion. After turn 5 it gets even better. What do you if you have to play healbot on 6? Nothing. With this you can also play a 3 drop. Or even better, Feral Spirit. And so on.
It's not a curve play, obviously And it's not like you'd play it alone unless you have no other choice. But when your only choice is to drop a healbot and end turn you're also not in a good spot most likely.

also worth pointing out that generally on turn 3 you need to play a creature

durrr... thanks i wanted to play this on turn 3
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
6,933
http://www.polygon.com/2015/8/11/91...ulls-in-20-million-a-month-as-it-disrupts-the

Hearthstone, Blizzard's popular digital collectible card game, pulls in about $20 million a month, split almost evenly between the PC and mobile versions of the game, according to analyst firm Superdata.

The information is detailed in the company's summary of its annual digital card games report.

How is Hearthstone suddenly dominating the digital collectible card game market? The analysts believe it's because the game has managed to recreate what World of Warcraftdid to massively multiplayer online games in 2004. World of Warcraft delivered a more accessible take on the persistent online games and packed it with the Warcraft franchise's popular characters and settings. So too does Hearthstone, streamlining the sometimes convoluted rules of collectible card games and filling it out with colorful, popular characters and settings.
 

Jozoz

Prophet
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
452
Location
69
I wish Jousting would just use the average mana cost of your deck.

The cards might need to be tweaked a bit, but it would just be so much better than this RNG clown fiesta.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
I don't know why people keep using those charts when they don't account for when you would be jousting. Handlocks keep a lot of high-mana cards in-hand. It's hard to win a joust when your molten isn't sitting in your deck. So right off the bat, that puts a large dent in their numbers. For other decks, by the time you get to these Jousty cards you'll be, say, 5-6mana in (just for shits and giggles). By that time, a lot of the low-mana minions in your deck should have already been played. Facedecks like Hunter are all low-mana, so unless your mulligans were complete ass your odds to win a Joust only go up as the game goes on and, as has been said, I don't think this card was meant to be played on curve to begin with. Overall, though... can't discount a potential 14-HP for 3-mana. That's a lotta juice.

That makes no sense. On average, the amount of low-cost minions you draw in the first X turns will be proportional to how many of them you have in your deck. There's no reason for the chance to win a joust to significantly increase or decrease over time. At most, some decks mulliganing for high-cost cards might make a slight difference, but Handlock is the only deck currently played that does this - everyone else wants low-cost cards in their opening hand. And for Handlock, it's rarely correct to keep a Molten Giant, keeping Mountain Giants vs control (and some midrange) decks would be way more frequent.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,840
That makes no sense. On average, the amount of low-cost minions you draw in the first X turns will be proportional to how many of them you have in your deck. There's no reason for the chance to win a joust to significantly increase or decrease over time. At most, some decks mulliganing for high-cost cards might make a slight difference, but Handlock is the only deck currently played that does this - everyone else wants low-cost cards in their opening hand. And for Handlock, it's rarely correct to keep a Molten Giant, keeping Mountain Giants vs control (and some midrange) decks would be way more frequent.

It doesn't increase over time - it increases at the mulligan (or decreases), pretty much like you said.

If X-deck get their minions to play on curve, they've dramatically increased their odds of winning the Joust vs. a face-deck.

You get two chances to land that curve. Comparing decks straight across the board makes no sense because it doesn't account for when these minions are being played. You can't equivocate 20 low-cost huntard minions with 4 low-cost minions in another deck, because the player in the latter deck will be trying to put them in their hand at the start and if that happens - which again, they have two shots at - then their odds for winning the Joust skyrockets well beyond what some baseline percentages would show. At the same time, Handlock has many large minions, but the player will be taking mulligans to have them in hand (I'm only going off of what legendary players do and show in their deck guides). So at a glance you could say, wow, the Warlock deck has an X-% chance to win those Jousts, except a large chunk of that percentage is actually lost in the player's attempt to put their biggest 'jousters' in hand.

Basically, I think the whole Jousting mechanic is going to bean facedecks upside the head and line-to-line comparisons between decks does not account for what minions each player wants in their starting hand. As the reddit post says: This is assuming both players have their entire deck unused. I think the Joust cards will be meh against a lot of decks, particularly since tying does nothing for you, but I really do think they will be smashing facedecks pretty badly and that the percentages vs. those decks are much worse (or better?) than they appear.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,840
I'm gonna make it a thing. My jousting champion will be a dragon, btw.
 

Andhaira

Arcane
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
1,869,070
I agree jousting thus far has been pretty shitty, but consider this:

-We have yet to see around half the cards in TGT. Who knows what synergies are possible
-One mechanic people are overlooking is that Jousting reveal a card in hand per joust. This can be valuable information for control players, if control decks became a thing again. It can also be very useful in arena, knowing if your opponent has a taunt in hand or not can be a game winning piece of information. It can also work against you ofcourse.
 

UglyBastard

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
821
Yes, they reveal a card from the deck.

The clue will be useless 99% of the time.
 

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