Hearthstone

[SmartCheetah]

If you are not willing to support the game financially, start hoarding gold to unlock the upcoming adventure mode.

Are you sure we're gonna need gold to play it?

Also, I opened like 40-50 packs and got only 2 legendaries. Ysera and Harrison Jones. :c

 

[Blaine]

Also, I opened like 40-50 packs and got only 2 legendaries. Ysera and Harrison Jones. :c

That's normal. Legendaries are said to appear in approximately 1 in every 20 packs.

 

[Grinolf]

Your assertion that winning nearly twice as often as one loses in Arena mode is easy (or "not a big deal," as you put it) is at odds with elementary mathematics, which demand that the average player wins exactly as often as he loses. It's your viewpoint that's distorted here, not mine. Not only the dull-witted but also inexperienced players logically make up the shortfall for those who win more than they lose. I don't need to know anything at all about the actual playing mechanics to determine this. It's enough to know how Arena mode is structured and how much it costs to enter according the Curse wiki article, and also that relatively few players will begin as experts.

Aren't you the one who advised that people should "read some guides"? Here you are bitching at me for reading about how the game works before playing, as though that's somehow shameful.

But it isn't really a big deal, and it wasn't a problem for me to acquire that number even when I only started to play this game while having only a theoretical
knowledges. It is obviously above average for casual players, but a don't think there are many persons on this forum, who could be confused by my statement. And again quest provide enough gold to play the arena once in a 2-3 days. Possibility to get profit from it is a secondary, but it helps to get cards much faster.

I am not bitching about you reading about the game. But about you making some conclusion only on the basis of what you read and forcing it in this thread by presenting arena not as "simple fun once in a few days that don't require much from anyone" but as "a trap tgat forces player to sink money into it", when in reality there is no need to unless player want that himself or because he really like arena and want to play it more often than his skills allow him or because he don't want to bother with doing quests.

 

[1451]

Naxxramas will be five wings. The first will be free and the rest can be unlocked by using gold or money.

Ysera fits in an adequate number of decks but Jones is being consistently used by a certain warrior deck. Other than that I haven't noticed him.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

The difficulty of getting 6 average wins in arena is that there's very little opportunity to outplay the opponent during the actual game in Hearthstone without knowing their deck. Only thing that separates a good player from a bad one is the drafting part, and that has randomness comparable to poker, but without the strategic complexity of that game. So the problem really is that arena gives very confusing feedback related to your drafting choices. I got 10 wins yesterday with a Rogue deck that I specifically drafted with aggression and tempo buildup in mind, but I can't really know whether my idea was good, or if I just lucked out into very good picks (and I did, and ended up making my typical rogue drafting mistake of picking too many weapons/deadly poisons).

 

[J1M]

oook, so i registered and play VS the AI to understand how it works, i like the priest as a play style, so i start the arena and... i cannot select priest or mage, which were the ones i had try to play with. Ah well.

One thing though: what's the keyboard shortcut for "end turn"? because obviously this can't be so retarded that i HAVE TO mouse over the damn button, right?

I reported this as a bug multiple times in the beta, suggesting a configurable option or Mouse4 as an end turn shortcut. No changes were made.

 

[J1M]

I read about Arena mode on the Curse wiki. Restricted class selection is apparently part and parcel with random deck drafting.

It's worth noting that Arena costs 150 gold or $1.99 to enter, which could make it rather annoying for new players who have no gold stockpiled and who aren't yet adept with the game's mechanics. If they screw up, they have to pay the fee again. Practice makes perfect, and you can't practice without paying, especially if your intention is to avoid Constructed and play Arena mode only. In other words, it's designed to eke cash out of people. It's all well and good for someone who's already skilled enough to earn enough gold to enter a second Arena almost every time they complete their first, but for anyone else I find it obnoxiously exploitative due to top-heaviness.

This is why I've always wished for a closed-set, semi-one-time-purchase (possibly with optional expansion) card game with TCG-like deck building and mechanics, otherwise known as "customizable card games," that more than a tiny amount of people actually play, but there really aren't any online. All are actively monetized, full-on TCGs. There are a few, such as Blue Moon (which isn't that great unfortunately), but online? Race For The Galaxy is playable online: http://en.boardgamearena.com/#!gamepanel?game=raceforthegalaxy But you don't build decks in RftG.

Normally a like your posts, but this is silly. You are reading quotes from misinformed game journalists and acting as a proxy in a discussion between people who have first-hand knowledge vs. the theoretical musings of misinformed journalists.

Gold gain from quests is about 50 gold a day. New players have access to several one-time sources of gold. The first arena entry is also free. It is actually easiest to acquire gold when you first join than at any other time, but it is never difficult.

Hearthstone is far, far, gentler in its attempts to extract money than any comparable F2P CCG.

 

[Scruffy]

question: those packs i have, can i open them or is it what i'm using for arena?

 

[J1M]

question: those packs i have, can i open them or is it what i'm using for arena?

You should open them. And use your gold for arena.

 

[Grunker]

The difficulty of getting 6 average wins in arena is that there's very little opportunity to outplay the opponent during the actual game in Hearthstone without knowing their deck. Only thing that separates a good player from a bad one is the drafting part

Sorry bro, but that's the bullshittiest of bullshit.

I. Trump, one of the most consistent Infinite-players on Hearthstone, often follow new players and gives advice etc. When asked to sum up what problems plague the majority of players, he said "most get the draft part right, because honestly the card pool is small enough that people learn how to draft correctly very fast. It's the decisions in game that seperate most 2-3 players from consistent 6/7-3 players." I believe he also mentions this in his guide, which focuses solely on how to play, and ignores how to draft. For that, the card pool was small enough that he could actually make a collated tier list. Often drafting is so linear that you can pretty much auto-pick as suggested by that list, as long as you keep an eye on your curve.

II. This is mirrored in tons of anecdotes. My own is that I would often not trade when I begun playing. My logic was: "With a 3/2 out against opponent's 3/2, I might as well get in for damage, forcing him to trade." That's free damage, right? You deal 3, you get ahead, opponent must trade. However most Hearthstone decks have ways to make trades advantageous for the active player if he or she has mana. Trading and ignoring loss of damage is often correct, depending on the situation. That's just one example of an easy play mistake that I made in the beginning, causing me to 2-3 or even 1-3 very often.

III. "Who's the Beatdown" is a relevant analysis to keep ahead of during the entire game. Most noobs I see doing badly in arena fuck this up beyond repair. They decide they've drafted a deck of whatever kind so they keep making decisions that are either a) aggressive or b) controlling, never adjusting to the board situation or the enemy hero.

IV. There's lots of other stuff. Hearthstone matches are simple because you often know your strategy, but in terms of which cards to play when and how, there's enough going on that this is often the deciding factor. It is compounded by the fact that the card pool is small enough that deck variation is hilariously poor.

Hearthstone is a fucking simplistic game and the fact that you are sealing more than drafting in reality is disappointing and far from a truly good limited experience. But saying that you can't outplay your opponent is straight up bullshit. It is a notion crushed by the fact that the top Hearthstone players rarely draft decks that are much different from the throng of people (including me) who average 6/7-3 - their play decisions, however, ar very different.

 

[Scruffy]

so i found an epic warlock card, but either warlock is shit or i can't play it

 

[Blaine]

Normally a like your posts, but this is silly. You are reading quotes from misinformed game journalists and acting as a proxy in a discussion between people who have first-hand knowledge vs. the theoretical musings of misinformed journalists.

That's incorrect. The theoretical musings are my own, based on the structuring of Arena mode according to reliable or official sources, the integrity and accuracy of which aren't really in doubt; those sources simply outline the entry fee, odds, and rewards system, which require no first-hand knowledge to understand properly. There's a difference between players like you who've been playing since beta (and who've likely been playing TCGs and similar for a decade or two, an advantage I also share) and someone's little cousin who just started playing yesterday. The assertion that if a player is good enough and/or doesn't want to play Arena terribly often until they get good is no doubt absolutely true, but my explicitly-stated point is that someone who's not yet very good and who wants to play a lot of Arena (and most especially, exclusively Arena, without use of Constructed to gain gold) will have a tough time of it is still accurate.

"Well, if you don't suck, then it won't cost you anything" is one of the most common justifications for F2P. I of course agree that good play should be rewarded and expected, but again, someone is making up that shortfall. Absolutely no experience with the game is required to know this. It is however good that skill is the determining factor, as outlined by Grunker, but skill is acquired largely through practice. I don't like that a fee, however trivial it may seem to you, is in the way of accessing that practice. It's there because if it weren't, then people could play absolutely free as much as they wanted, regardless of winning or losing. The losers clearly make up the shortfall.

Gold gain from quests is about 50 gold a day. New players have access to several one-time sources of gold. The first arena entry is also free. It is actually easiest to acquire gold when you first join than at any other time, but it is never difficult.

Yes, I've read the quest rewards list and the one-time rewards list for which accomplishing X grants 100 gold and so on, and this is as it should be.

Hearthstone is far, far, gentler in its attempts to extract money than any comparable F2P CCG.

I probably should have mentioned this before—as F2P games go, including or even particularly other CCGs, Hearthstone seems far less exploitative than most.

No doubt I've drawn some erroneous conclusions about Hearthstone, but that's de rigeur when examining a F2P game and trying to decide how exploitative it is before leaping in and potentially getting addicted to it. If the game weren't F2P, that wouldn't be an issue. You'll surely forgive me if I take your first-hand experience with a grain of salt, since this isn't my first rodeo and fans of a given F2P game tend to accentuate the positive and downplay the negative. I have plentiful personal experience with this in other contexts. The truth is likely somewhere in-between the accentuated positives and my admittedly ill-informed nitpicking.

 

[Grunker]

Well, skill is certainly the determining factor, but the game is pretty simple and boring. It survives for me simply by virtue of being the best there is, honestly. I love card games, and above all I love limited, and Hearthstone the only one where I can play limited almost ad libitum without spending huge wads of cash.

As far as your gold discussion goes, I played 3/4 arenas per week when I started, then slowly that crept up. Now I can play around 3-4 per day (at least) without running out of money. I've also scraped enough dust up to be able to play a full Control Warrior deck, which is a bullshit deck that requires lots of legendaries and epics. And I've bought like 2 or 3 Arenas with real money throughout my play time. Not quite infinite, but close enough. And like I said, my average is 6, borderline 5 with some classes and borderline 7 with mage. I think their F2P model is pretty fair honestly. They couldn't very well just give away this shit entirely for free, could they?

 

[Blaine]

They couldn't very well just give away this shit entirely for free, could they?

What, Blizzard? Yes, they actually could.

 

[1451]

Warlock exclusive cards are not that good. Most annoying(and strong) warlock decks are murlocs, rush with 1-2 mana cost minions and giants.

 

[Grunker]

They couldn't very well just give away this shit entirely for free, could they?

What, Blizzard? Yes, they actually could.

haw haw haw

Warlock exclusive cards are not that good. Most annoying(and strong) warlock decks are murlocs, rush with 1-2 mana cost minions and giants.

Certainly not. The strongest Warlock deck by far is Zoo. Also the cheapest competitive deck out there . Can reach Legendary with that deck no problem, if you're good enough. I suck at constructed though so won't be me. Murlock decks have way too high variance to reach legendary steadily.

Heartily recommend newcomers build it as their first Constructed deck. Control board --> Never play more than three minions --> prosper.

 

[1451]

You are right, I tend to include giant decks to zoo. Zoolock as I understand it is a playstyle that doesn't play any cards until he has ten in his hand. Then he proceeds to play twilight drakes, giants and taunt enablers.

 

[Grunker]

You are right, I tend to include giant decks to zoo. Zoolock as I understand it is a playstyle that doesn't play any cards until he has ten in his hand. Then he proceeds to play twilight drakes, giants and taunt enablers.

Not really. With Zoo you basically try to establish board control with Battlecry minions n' shit, establish a board with 3 of your minions and zero of theirs, and maintain card advantage with life tap

At least that's the deck I like. The specific list I use myself is this one:

But I've seen plenty of other great ones.

 

[Scruffy]

i'm amazingly shit at this arena thing. not sure what i'm doing wrong. i feel one has to be a bit conservative with cards, but even so i always seem to run out of cards...

 

[Grunker]

i'm amazingly shit at this arena thing. not sure what i'm doing wrong. i feel one has to be a bit conservative with cards, but even so i always seem to run out of cards...

This list is basically gospel: http://www.liquidhearth.com/guides/arena-tier-list (scroll to the bottom to get lists where he explains why each card is good/bad)

(yep, the game is simple enough for such a list)

Make sure your mana curve is either a Bell Curve centered around 4-drops (most decks) or if you're feeling frisky, tilt the curve towards 2-drops and 3-drops and go aggressive.

Subjective opinion: Mage and Paladin outclass the other heroes by a small margin. You will get your ass kicked by Hunter sometimes and probably forget the millions of times the Hunter loses to you because of pool variance

General play guide: http://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/arena-guide

Note this part in particular:

5.1. Trading Minions
Regardless of how aggressive your deck is, you should always prioritize making the best possible trades, rather than pressuring your opponent and allowing them to make the worst possible trade for you. Keeping the board clear will always help you avoid any potential traps your opponent can set for you by buffing their minions and making trades even worse than they could have been, or creating an even bigger advantage with their AoE damage spells.

When your opponent has a minion that can be taken out by your minions, you should always go for the trade if you suspect that they might be holding on to buffers. Here are some examples.

• Shattered Sun Cleric can make your opponent's 2/3 minion a 3/4 which will take out your minion and create card and board advantage for your opponent.
• Argent Protector will always give your opponent card and board advantage if they have a suitable minion to buff with Divine Shield. You should never allow the Paladin to have that option.
• Power Word: Shield can easily make any 2-drop a 2-for-1 and possibly more if you allow the to use their Hero Power to heal the minion.
• When your opponent has a minion that can be taken out by your minions, you should always go for the trade if you suspect that they might be holding on to AoE damage spells.
  • Forked Lightning can make a nightmare 2-for-1 and shift the board control to your opponent in the early game, which can be prevented by trading your minions and not giving your opponent the requirements to play Forked Lightning (having 2 minions).
  • Consecration can wipe your entire board, making 2-for-1 or possibly more for your opponent while allowing them to take board advantage. Take out your opponent's minion, and try to bait out Consecration with a 2-for-1. Similar approach applie to any other AoE damage spell such as Holy Nova, Blizzard, orFlamestrike.

Living and dying by this point really swung my initial arena success rate. Far too many beginners go for the "free damage".

(though again, remember the next point: if you have a good shot of going for lethal, and your opponent has card advantage, go for it - but you need to be able to close the game in 2-3 turns if you make that play)

Hope that helps bro.

 

[1451]

I'm also bad at arena, that's why I stopped playing it long ago. I guess you could try to have some card draw in the decks you draft and also try to make card trades at least 1:1. For example if I use my boar to kill a gnome I consider it good. But if I use two arcane shots for a 2/3 troll-crocodile it would be bad.

 

[Grunker]

Also, idonthavetimeforthiscrap, you're right that you should be conservative. Overcommiting in Hearthstone is the #1 noobtrap. So many safely won games are lost because each and every Hero has a way to turn overcommital into a game loss.

 

[J1M]

No doubt I've drawn some erroneous conclusions about Hearthstone, but that's de rigeur when examining a F2P game and trying to decide how exploitative it is before leaping in and potentially getting addicted to it. If the game weren't F2P, that wouldn't be an issue. You'll surely forgive me if I take your first-hand experience with a grain of salt, since this isn't my first rodeo and fans of a given F2P game tend to accentuate the positive and downplay the negative. I have plentiful personal experience with this in other contexts. The truth is likely somewhere in-between the accentuated positives and my admittedly ill-informed nitpicking.

This is a very fair question. If it helps, my positive opinion is one from a person that does not play any other F2P games because I have similar opinions to yours about the business model. I would have much-preferred to pay Blizzard a flat $30 for the whole game, but that wasn't an option so I ended up only giving them $4.

The major problem I have with the game is one that you will hit once you reach about 70% of the total card collection. At that point, even if you wanted to spend money it becomes such a bad investment that it is not rational to do so. The reasons for this boil down to the exchange rate on destroying commons vs. crafting more rare cards. If I wanted to buy a specific legendary card, I'd need to spend way more than is reasonable.

As it is now, the business model is preventing me from spending extra money on the game. Selling individual cards for $1 would be far more profitable for Blizzard with regards to customers like me.

 

[Blaine]

Something along the same lines occurred to me earlier, but I didn't mention it for simplicity's sake—aside from the 70% bit, if you already own two/one of every single available card (except goldens), and you play Arena, and you furthermore win 6 games on average, then a fair portion of your return will be cards and dust. For an Arena-only player (I realize there are relatively few of these in reality), those are totally useless, and they'd have to hit rank 9 or 10 and receive the random gold reward absolutely every single time in order to play as much Arena as desired. Otherwise they'd either have to pay money, or finish daily quests and play Constructed. The one-off rewards surely run out eventually.

Maybe I'm missing something? It costs 150 gold to register for Arena, and the maximum realistic gold-per-day amount is something like 160 or 200, for a juicy daily and 30 wins in Play mode. A reasonable average game time estimate is something like ten minutes (I've Googled over a dozen forum threads/articles to see what players have to say on that issue), meaning it would take five hours to earn that additional 100 gold.

The reason I'm harping on this is that it's all well and good that Arena doesn't require you to have collected cards, but it does seem to require you to either pay a fee or "grind" Constructed and quests, which I'd guess is faster if you have better cards.

 

[Scruffy]

wait, lord of the arena is "poor"? i really didn't understand this game i guess