-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game
- Thread starter GarfunkeL
- Start date
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
Anyway, since I mentioned its impending release, the New Order is just by its very brief demo a strong contender for Best Paradox Mod Of All Time. And then you can get into the dev diaries that go into more detail about what the mod's got and aiming for:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/cukt7z/development_diary_xxii_shin_chitsujyo_no_kanshou/
Even besides having an entirely different mechanical focus from usual Pdox mods (that is to say, one of the starting principles with the mod was to be 100% anti map painting; the big one was that if Paradox won't bring Victoria III to the New Order, the New Order will bring Victoria III to Hearts of Iron IV) the big unusual element is that it's a story focused game. And it sounds really really interesting and fun, what with the various happenings all around and the overarching thing with Himmler having discovered National Posadism.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/cukt7z/development_diary_xxii_shin_chitsujyo_no_kanshou/
Even besides having an entirely different mechanical focus from usual Pdox mods (that is to say, one of the starting principles with the mod was to be 100% anti map painting; the big one was that if Paradox won't bring Victoria III to the New Order, the New Order will bring Victoria III to Hearts of Iron IV) the big unusual element is that it's a story focused game. And it sounds really really interesting and fun, what with the various happenings all around and the overarching thing with Himmler having discovered National Posadism.
Last edited:
What's the point, then?
You just sit through event messages and click buttons in them?
Why use the HoI4 engine for that?
I really don't see why you would want to marry the HoI4 gameplay with a story-driven approach. It's just ill-suited no matter how you look at it.
Define very fast, though.
I'd say that it would probably take hundreds of hours to play a pretty large number of interesting nations in each good, different mod.
Sure, at some point, you are done with the game, but by that point you got a lot more than what you paid for already.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
The answer to all those questions is to allow for the possibility of nuclear armageddon!
Their demo also showcased what I feel is a very neat design for war: Far more limited number of units at work over larger areas. Even in a small war between tiny quasi post-apocalyptic Russian provinces, there was a lot more maneuvering than usual for HoI4 campaign. And, here's where the narrative focus again kicks in, it's more interesting when the war has follow-through. So far the only HoI4 campaign that has emphasis on follow-through has been the Enclave submod for Fallout.
Their demo also showcased what I feel is a very neat design for war: Far more limited number of units at work over larger areas. Even in a small war between tiny quasi post-apocalyptic Russian provinces, there was a lot more maneuvering than usual for HoI4 campaign. And, here's where the narrative focus again kicks in, it's more interesting when the war has follow-through. So far the only HoI4 campaign that has emphasis on follow-through has been the Enclave submod for Fallout.
You cannot reason with the "muh historicity (hitler wins the war tho...)" crowd.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
Millenium Dawn is honestly the best example of that problem. Right now what we have there is a campaign that's basically 19 years of fuckall if we stick to "historicity."
That's one thing why I think it's a good thing The New Order expressly starts with coming up with a story framework around each playable country and region rather than trying to be "plausible" (because no alternate history is), so we should have a wild ride even besides the eventual global problem that Himmler came up with a nazi version of posadism where holy cleansing nuclear fire doesn't bring communist utopia and aliens but will instead kill all non-Aryans. Is it plausible that Lysenko's one of the warlords in Magnitogorsk and is also a full-on mad scientist by the 60's? No, but it makes for a lot more fun than whatever Millenium Dawn thinks it's doing. And I have no idea what might happen with Lysenko after you win the smaller regional fight (and maybe manage to not get ousted for being a mad scientist dictator).
That's one thing why I think it's a good thing The New Order expressly starts with coming up with a story framework around each playable country and region rather than trying to be "plausible" (because no alternate history is), so we should have a wild ride even besides the eventual global problem that Himmler came up with a nazi version of posadism where holy cleansing nuclear fire doesn't bring communist utopia and aliens but will instead kill all non-Aryans. Is it plausible that Lysenko's one of the warlords in Magnitogorsk and is also a full-on mad scientist by the 60's? No, but it makes for a lot more fun than whatever Millenium Dawn thinks it's doing. And I have no idea what might happen with Lysenko after you win the smaller regional fight (and maybe manage to not get ousted for being a mad scientist dictator).
To be honest, anyone that goes on about how anything in history was "inevitable" and therefore that 'alt histories are all stupid' really doesn't know a lot about the philosophy behind working as a historian. The people on their forums getting incredibly upset that they added Al-Andalus as a tag, for example. Going on and on as if it was huge detraction of resources, even thought it was all done in a dev's personal time. Thankfully Paradox ignores them for the most part, but they are a damn loud minority in the community.
Space Satan
Arcane
It always amaed me how some retards wrote walls of text and shitty fluff for their half-assed mods. A lot of time that could be spend polishing their mods out of their sorry states
Heroic Liberator
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2018
- Messages
- 19,453
It's not a matter of inevitability, but of feasibility. Imagining an Al-Andalus resurfacing in the 20th century is completely anachronistic.
You can recreate the Roman Empire, it's no less whack.
Heroic Liberator
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2018
- Messages
- 19,453
That's just as dumb.
Point is it's consistent and if you're expecting anything else you came to the wrong place. But it has its origins in a real place, which is every nationalism of the early 20th century fixating on an idealised past rendition; and if the Moroccans regained any reasonable amount of power and autonomy by then they'd doubtless be looking back to the days of the Ummayads thanks to the holdover influence of the euros.
Heroic Liberator
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2018
- Messages
- 19,453
I agree. HoI4 is my least favorite of the latest renditions in Paradox franchises.
It's why I keept telling you that what they're doing with Imperator these days is legit, bruh. The tensions that inevitably build with Carthage when playing as Rome feels so much more dynamic (while still believeable) than any of the focus tree crap in HoI4.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
Yea I don't really mean that it's inevitable, it's just that alternate history is unimaginable, if that's a fitting choice of words. Butterfly effects all over. But for a video game, the only consideration should be: Does it make the game more fun? We already have a case where Hearts of Iron has always had to twist things around to service gameplay.
In regards to things like the formable tags, that's basically what they are. They're there to act as a small carrot for people who want an unusual campaign. In their case the "waste of time and resources" thing is doubly funny, given that the cosmetic tag decisions that the formables are can be whipped up in an hour if you have a flag image ready, and the only maintenance they require is if the map sees changes to its state IDs.
The whinges were acting as if they were going to constantly see an independent Morocco break free, conquer Iberia, form al-Andalus, and then conquer the whole Arab world. I guess that's what gets you going when your time is literally worthless.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
Yea, even the Rome thing requires you to go absolutely apeshit, and the Holy Roman Empire is tucked in so deep that it requires not only knowledge of what's basically an easter egg it will also require lots of savescumming to get everything exactly right. I don't think any of the formables really come up without player agency, unless one counts the Greater German Reich or PRC as real formables.
Hellraiser
Arcane
As Japan I staged a facist coup in America that created the American Empire (or how was it called) in California, the AI later turned it into the confederate state of america. Not sure if this counts since I staged the coup, but the CSA reforming was entirely accidental by the hands of the AI and I had no idea that could happen.
Sadly despite all the nippon nukes I dropped on the yankees in the mid-west, the confederacy succumbed after ~5 years of defying the yankee aggression.
In the end I got swarmed by soviets in China, after Germany fell in '49 or '51 or something like that. Man, that was the best off the rails WW2 I saw in HOI IV.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
Played a bit of Don't Surf demo for The New Order. Still remains the most promising mod.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 99,612
HOI4 segment from the Paradox Insider stream:
Heroic Liberator
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2018
- Messages
- 19,453
From Reman, one of the best YT content creators for Paradox titles in terms of in-depth guides and what not:
New update for the memest mod.
May I interest you in some E A G L E A X E ?
May I interest you in some E A G L E A X E ?
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
In other mod news, The New Order's first full version is slated to release July 21st. It will not include 80's content like the Great Asian War, to my understanding.
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.