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Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

Space Satan

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Command? You can play exactly like HoI4 with no command structure if you want.
Micromanagement? You need to micromange less in HoI3. In HoI4 there is no way to automate planes or navy or production or tech. Every month you have to look for new tech to research and swap planes across different arbitrary airzones whenever the front moves.
Research? Yeah, it has some depth there rather than a dumbed down research tree. In HoI4 you have one doctrine choice (highly unbalanced to begin with) with some non-choices afterwards. HoI3 forces actual choices when leadership is low. Also leadership is an amazing system to soft cap division spam since the overall org goes down and/or research suffers.
War declarations? What's the problem here?
Belligerence? It makes 100% sense. It makes zero sense that the Soviets causing threat can allow USA/UK to declare on a peaceful Germany or vice versa in HoI4. Hence why every MP game needs 10 pages of rules governing DoWs since otherwise the optimal strategy is for both to just start conquering everything in 1936. It also makes zero sense that threat is global rather than localized, where the Spanish Civil War affects USA just as much as it affects France. In HoI3 threat makes sense, if Germany is causing threat it only helps the allies declare on Germany and it only really affects people in Europe up until things get crazy.
HoI3 command is a very definition of micromanagement hell. Dealing with Hqs was alwful enough. HoiIIV all your wings auto-update and auto-reinforce unlees you specify otherwise. And now they follow armies.
Belligerance blocks early wars entirely, making first part of the game a slog. Volunteers made HoIIV interesting even for early stages.
HoIIV had A LOT of shit but HoIIII is a Masterof Orion 3 of hearts of Iron series.
 
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HoI3 command is a very definition of micromanagement hell. Dealing with Hqs was alwful enough.
You can delete all HQs other than theaters and play 100% the same way as HoI4. Arguably better since the unit AI in HoI3 isn't nearly as suicidal or stupid about multiple fronts as HoI4 (still suicidal and stupid, but HoI4 is another level entirely).

HoiIIV all your wings auto-update and auto-reinforce unlees you specify otherwise. And now they follow armies.
Still have to micro them every time you want to intercept a bomber going somewhere else.

Belligerance blocks early wars entirely, making first part of the game a slog. Volunteers made HoIIV interesting even for early stages.

Early wars are supposed to be blocked for democracies in a historical WW2 simulation. If you want a dumb mindless blobfest use noneutrality. Volunteers in HoI4 is a good feature though. At the same time it's kind of a joke how imbalanced HoI4's systems are when the entire fate of China can be swayed by a handful of space marines dropped in by Germany or Soviets that cost virtually nothing to use and completely annihilate the entire Chinese or Japanese armies.
 

Agame

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Get Darkest Hour instead, its cheaper, feature complete and a better game. Or if you are really into old school hex style wargaming get HOI3, as it has the most detailed combat system.
 

Space Satan

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No. HOI4 improves in some areas, for example the production lines and equipment, but HOI3 is a fundamentally better and funner game. And the main reason is how it is designed around how they want you to play. HOI4 is designed around you painting some stupid lines on a map and letting the AI play the fun part of the game for you, while HOI3 was designed around you actually commanding your units. This is mostly because HOI4 was designed much more with multiplayer in mind.

Yet another game series that gets crapped up for the sake of multiplayer.
Uh-huh
Rozvqt.png
 
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No. HOI4 improves in some areas, for example the production lines and equipment, but HOI3 is a fundamentally better and funner game. And the main reason is how it is designed around how they want you to play. HOI4 is designed around you painting some stupid lines on a map and letting the AI play the fun part of the game for you, while HOI3 was designed around you actually commanding your units. This is mostly because HOI4 was designed much more with multiplayer in mind.

Yet another game series that gets crapped up for the sake of multiplayer.
Uh-huh
Rozvqt.png

I'll be the first to admit that that's very impressive, but have you seen Fortnite? Judging by the player numbers Fortnite is easily the best, most hardcore and accurate WW2 simulator ever created.
 

Trithne

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I always wanted to try this game, only one I've played from Paradox is CKII (fun game to be sure).

Question is what DLCs are essential so I can grab them on nearest sale?

DLCs come down in part to where you like playing the game:

Together for victory - only really worth it if you really like playing Commonwealth minors.

Death or dishonor - came as above, but Axis minors. Both this and Tfv add some minority useful features you can live without.

Wanking the tiger - China, China, China. Also let's you directly attach air wings to armies. This is the first one that is both decent value and recommended to get.

Man the guns (when it comes out) - UK, US, Dutch, Mexicans. Will add features to make democracies more interesting. Also a ship designer. Will probably be a must-buy.

Basically you want to get WTT. TFV and DoD can wait for a deep sale.
 

Space Satan

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I'll be the first to admit that that's very impressive, but have you seen Fortnite? Judging by the player numbers Fortnite is easily the best, most hardcore and accurate WW2 simulator ever created.
HoIIV is the only game of the franchize that became really popular, surpassing even HoI2 success. It even surpassed Stellaris - Paradox star child. It is like Master of Orion 2 and 3.
 

Destroid

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I'll be the first to admit that that's very impressive, but have you seen Fortnite? Judging by the player numbers Fortnite is easily the best, most hardcore and accurate WW2 simulator ever created.
HoIIV is the only game of the franchize that became really popular, surpassing even HoI2 success. It even surpassed Stellaris - Paradox star child. It is like Master of Orion 2 and 3.

If HoI4 is so popular I wonder why they are pumping so much effort into Stellaris DLC compared to HoI4.
 

Space Satan

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Stellaris sold better. HoIIV have more stable playerbase and higher daily players but Stellaris sold so well that it made Paradox divert most of its resources to its further developement. Given how thye remade game from scratch with laters patch I'd say it is a huge effort. But Stellaris is not that mod-friendly. Whatever you mod you will still get another Stellaris. HoIIV mods are huge, and warfare sysmet allows zombie horde mods, man in the High Castle mods, alien invasion mod and all other mods with much more immersive events and alt-history stuff. And HoIIV mod section is huge.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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I always wanted to try this game, only one I've played from Paradox is CKII (fun game to be sure).

Question is what DLCs are essential so I can grab them on nearest sale?

DLCs come down in part to where you like playing the game:

Together for victory - only really worth it if you really like playing Commonwealth minors.

Death or dishonor - came as above, but Axis minors. Both this and Tfv add some minority useful features you can live without.

Wanking the tiger - China, China, China. Also let's you directly attach air wings to armies. This is the first one that is both decent value and recommended to get.

Man the guns (when it comes out) - UK, US, Dutch, Mexicans. Will add features to make democracies more interesting. Also a ship designer. Will probably be a must-buy.

Basically you want to get WTT. TFV and DoD can wait for a deep sale.
I would say ultimately the matter is what mods require. Which is usually all of them, since there's always at least one mod feature that modders want to use. Wanking Massacre/Rape of Wanking DLC is just the most obvious example of this due to the border skirmish.
 

Trithne

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I always wanted to try this game, only one I've played from Paradox is CKII (fun game to be sure).

Question is what DLCs are essential so I can grab them on nearest sale?

DLCs come down in part to where you like playing the game:

Together for victory - only really worth it if you really like playing Commonwealth minors.

Death or dishonor - came as above, but Axis minors. Both this and Tfv add some minority useful features you can live without.

Wanking the tiger - China, China, China. Also let's you directly attach air wings to armies. This is the first one that is both decent value and recommended to get.

Man the guns (when it comes out) - UK, US, Dutch, Mexicans. Will add features to make democracies more interesting. Also a ship designer. Will probably be a must-buy.

Basically you want to get WTT. TFV and DoD can wait for a deep sale.
I would say ultimately the matter is what mods require. Which is usually all of them, since there's always at least one mod feature that modders want to use. Wanking Massacre/Rape of Wanking DLC is just the most obvious example of this due to the border skirmish.

Only major mod I really bother with is Kaiserreich, which goes out of its way to require none of the DLC. I do know that a lot of the big mods rely on WTT for Border Conflicts though, which again - WTT is the only really mandatory one.
 

Space Satan

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DD new naval combat
Hi everyone! Since forums were all down yesterday the diary is coming today instead :) Today we are going to look at core changes to naval combat coming in 1.6 Ironclad. We have already discussed how missions are changed as well as basics of the new spotting system in a previous diary and a future one will be fully dedicated to submarines so I will only cover them a little for how the interact with regular fleet battles today. So lets charge in!

Its best to start by looking at problems in the old system so you can see how we have tried to solve them and iterate. We identified the following:
  • Battles are extremely decisive so tiny mistakes have bad consequences
  • Combats tend to snowballs as everyone and their mother’s fleet pile in
  • A big fleet was always better, together with the above point promoting doomstacking
  • The interface gets very confusing as ships close with each other. Distance overall is very hard to show and balance.
  • It is easy to miss a combat happening while busy elsewhere.
  • Its “simulation nature” made balancing an incredibly hard problem. Resulting in things like the all-battleship fleets performing well.
“Battle-lines”
index.php


To deal with distance and screening issues we have split up the battle in 4 areas per side to represent position and distances.

Screens - Your screen ships go here. Screens are the closest to the enemy and protect the ships behind them (details below).
Battle line - This is where your big guns sit. Heavy cruisers, Battleships etc. Anything with heavy long range guns. These guys also help to protect carriers and convoys behind them.
Carriers - Furthest back are carriers protected by the other two lines. This is also where convoys will be if part of the combat (say during invasion or a convoy raid battle).
Submarines - Under the sea. This area is actually two as we separate located submarines (which can be engaged with depth charges) from unlocated submarines.

By splitting things up in discrete distances unlike the old system we can more easily capture the impact of distance and positioning, and keep it easier to see what is going on at a glance.

The area they are assigned to depends on the weapons they have, which makes things tie in neatly with the ship designer. Rules for combat are now largely depend on how different weapons interact with the areas, so it is important to go over them before we continue. We also show these summarized at the top of the combat screen for quick information and to help you evaluate the combat situation:
index.php

Light Guns - These are smaller caliber guns. The armament on destroyers/light cruisers and secondary armament on heavier ships. Their job is to hit and kill smaller fast moving ships. They generally do not have the armor piercing to lay down serious hurt on capital ships. Light guns attack ships one line over. So screen ships can shoot other screen ships, and when there are no more shoot the enemies capital ships. Capital ships with secondaries can fire from behind the safety of the screens at the enemy screen.

Heavy Guns - These are hard hitting armor piercing guns designed to take out big ships. They have trouble hitting small fast ships, but when they do it is for significant damage. Heavy guns have the range to fire over one of the enemy lines. So they will be hitting the enemy battle line even if it is screened.

Torpedoes - These are the big capital killers. They ignore armor, and have big damage but are terrible at hitting fast/small ships. Torpedoes can hit any line as long as it is not screened properly. So if your screening is down to 50% then half of the enemy torpedoes can be fired at your battle line, and if the battle line is also weak some torpedoes can slip through and hit carriers or convoys.

Anti-air - AA works a bit different. When firing back at enemy planes a ship will also get a part of the fleet’s AA armament to help it, so it’s quite nice to make sure your support ships (or battleships if you focus on carriers) are stacked with as much AA as possible.

Depth Charges - This is the only weapon that can hurt subs, and it only works versus revealed subs.
Carrier Planes - Carriers can carry different kind of planes. Naval and dive bombers help attack other ships and fighters help protect yourself. The whole air model in naval combats is now more in line with the rest of the game and takes place in the airzone as you would expect. So can now be disrupted etc. This fixed a bunch of issues we had with the interaction between land based air and carriers.

index.php


Next to the weapon summaries we also display the side’s positioning value. This is a value simulating how well positioned your task forces are. A low positioning could for example mean that all your screens are scattered in a storm and your capital ships are wide open to attack. Positioning affects screening directly and a low value will directly hurt the fighting abilities of the ships as they wont be in optimal range, have another ship fouling the range etc. A big effect on positioning is the relative sizes of the fleets. So the bigger fleet will have an inherent penalty to its positioning versus a smaller, more easily controlled force. An admiral’s maneuver skill helps with this though. There are also traits like Lone Wolf and the Capital Ship Raiders tech from the Trade Interdiction doctrines that help increase this penalty for the enemy. The idea is to make smaller capital raiding forces more competitive if you tech right and have a trained Admiral in charge.

index.php


Tooltips for ships now give great breakdown on where the damage is coming from so you can see how well (or not) a particular weapon type is doing, there are also totals summarized in the top of the interface.
index.php



Entering and exiting combat
After the initial battle starts, further task forces can join. When they do they get put in the “Incoming” box, much like before. The time spent there depends on their org levels. The lower the longer they have to wait to join. Org is affected by moving, but also by giving manual orders to fleets (we want you to plan ahead, not react for max efficiency). Whenever ships are called to a combat, they will take an organization hit, which slows down their joining. Similar delays also apply for missions like convoy raiding or escort at suboptimal efficiency so it’s harder to bring all your power to bear at the same time.

On the flip side, if you take out the enemy side before the incoming ships arrive, the battle ends and you can run away (or the sides have to re-spot each other if they still want to fight), the idea is to help subs and other raiders out by allowing fast hit-and-run battles.

index.php


As for exiting combat that is both something you can order directly and something that happens when ships take enough damage (remember, you set up aggression levels to control how risky you want your task forces to be). Retreating is a process that takes some time. It is affected by doctrines, traits, weather, terrain, and the speed of the ship. We show it as a progress bar so you can bite your nails as the enemy pride of the fleet slowly gets away. Note that we also now have critical hits which will slow down ships and making it harder to run - a ship with a jammed rudder has a wooping 90% penalty to escaping. Escaping is an important part in keeping battles from being too decisive.

This is also where submarines come in. They follow normal torpedo rules, but also free to circumvent them when it comes to escaping ships. So if you have subs hiding in your battle they can engage the enemy capitals as they start to run (of course this reveals them, depending on doctrine levels, leaving them open to return fire from anti-sub vessels).

See you next week for a look at submarines :)

index.php
 

Space Satan

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DD subs rework
Raiding and Reaving 1940 edition

Greetings, I am a game designer new to the HoI4 team. This is my first dev diary, so be gentle ;). Also, sorry for the late post today. I am an American and when it comes to WW2, we show up late.

Today’s diary entry covers our improvements to submarine convoy raiding. In past versions of HoI4, submarines have not really pulled their weight. We have sought to change that and make them worthwhile to build. I recently put these changes to the test by playing a Germany campaign.

My naval plan as Germany was to exploit the central Atlantic and Cap Verde Plain with a submarine wall. This would hopefully prevent England from getting necessary resources from the USA and the colonies. The biggest effect of this resource shortage would be the UK running out of fuel, crippling both their navy and air force. This would hopefully open the UK to sea lioning before the USA joins the war or at the very least, make winning the air war very easy and cause permanent damage to the UK’s fleet.

index.php


We have previously mentioned the spotting system, and how naval task forces are revealed over time. This functions a little bit differently for subs. Spotting an enemy sub outside of combat is based upon chance. The chance for this to happen is based on how quickly the spotter will spot their target. However, it is possible for a submarine to have a large enough advantage in spotting that the submarine task force will not be able to be spotted. However, convoy escorts will still be able to fight against submarines once combat is initiated, even if subs are not normally detectable by enemy taskforces on the map.

This system creates a tech race between sub stealth and sub spotting, with subs having a better chance of getting an advantage in the early game. Previously, submarines would eventually be detected and killed no matter how good at hiding they were. This is no longer an inevitability.

Before beginning the war, I made sure to complete the German naval focus line down to “U-boat Effort.” Along with getting a research speed boost and some dockyards, the focus gives Germany access to a “Cruiser Submarine.” This sub is a sort of tech 2.5 Sub with extended range, some unique module options, including catapult planes, and the ability to be upgraded with a snorkel.

index.php


Part of my plan for giving England a hard time included mining up the English Channel. I executed this plan with a cruiser sub equipped with naval mines and plane catapults. These plane catapults boost the sub’s surface detection, giving them an advantage in being detected and helping them remain invisible, at least for the first couple years of the war.

index.php


I made a tech 3 sub-variant for minelaying the Eastern North Sea and a tech 3 raider-sub for Cap Verde Plain. When I demanded Danzig from Poland in August of ‘39 I had 79 Subs of various roles ready and much of the Trade Interdiction doctrine complete. This focus on raiding will give my subs a further detection advantage over other countries that have yet to complete their convoy escort doctrines.

Speaking of the naval doctrines, we have made some changes all around to account for the new combat system and apply a bit of balance. In particular, we have given some buffs to the Trade Interdiction doctrine to make it more attractive than it was previously. We have added additional survivability for submarines and more of an edge in surface detection values. Capital ships have received some defensive increases as well.

index.php


Torpedo reveal chance is a new thing for subs. When subs are in combat, attacking no longer guarantees that a sub will reveal itself. Baseline, subs have a 50% chance to reveal themselves when launching a torpedo volley. This can further be improved through doctrines and admiral traits. This makes ambushing protected convoys safer and retreating when too many destroyers show up easier.

In my campaign, I capitulated France in early December of ‘39. To help with the Axis’s naval situation I formed Vichy France. Before France fell they had been contesting my raiding of Cap Verde Plain to the best of their ability, but I was still seeing some success. Forming Vichy France put more ships in the hands of the Axis and would further help to stretch the limits of what England could endure at sea.

With Vichy France on my side, early 1940 saw a massive spike in convoys raided as Cap Verde Plain and the Mid-Atlantic were now completely covered. By this point, I had ~20 dockyards producing subs for minelaying and raiding. All of my newest tech 3 Raiders were seeing great success in under the guidance of Karl Dönitz. Even when contested by British convoy escorts, they were able to get a respectable amount of kills and retreat. Naval bombers were also ramping up operations in the English channel.

index.php


We have added a new effect to convoy raiding, war support reduction due to raiding. By mid-1940, Canada had been raided to 0 convoys and had their war support reduced to a point where they were no longer able to support War Economy. This helps to promote raiding and discourages blunt forcing convoys through an area where you are being raided.

index.php


By early ‘41 England had been choked out of convoys and fuel and was unable to keep their navy running and were about open to a naval invasion. By mid ‘41 I had naval invaded the UK and was Setup for an attack on Russia.

See you all next week!
 

Trithne

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Messages
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DD subs rework
Raiding and Reaving 1940 edition

Greetings, I am a game designer new to the HoI4 team. This is my first dev diary, so be gentle ;). Also, sorry for the late post today. I am an American and when it comes to WW2, we show up late.

Today’s diary entry covers our improvements to submarine convoy raiding. In past versions of HoI4, submarines have not really pulled their weight. We have sought to change that and make them worthwhile to build. I recently put these changes to the test by playing a Germany campaign.

My naval plan as Germany was to exploit the central Atlantic and Cap Verde Plain with a submarine wall. This would hopefully prevent England from getting necessary resources from the USA and the colonies. The biggest effect of this resource shortage would be the UK running out of fuel, crippling both their navy and air force. This would hopefully open the UK to sea lioning before the USA joins the war or at the very least, make winning the air war very easy and cause permanent damage to the UK’s fleet.

index.php


We have previously mentioned the spotting system, and how naval task forces are revealed over time. This functions a little bit differently for subs. Spotting an enemy sub outside of combat is based upon chance. The chance for this to happen is based on how quickly the spotter will spot their target. However, it is possible for a submarine to have a large enough advantage in spotting that the submarine task force will not be able to be spotted. However, convoy escorts will still be able to fight against submarines once combat is initiated, even if subs are not normally detectable by enemy taskforces on the map.

This system creates a tech race between sub stealth and sub spotting, with subs having a better chance of getting an advantage in the early game. Previously, submarines would eventually be detected and killed no matter how good at hiding they were. This is no longer an inevitability.

Before beginning the war, I made sure to complete the German naval focus line down to “U-boat Effort.” Along with getting a research speed boost and some dockyards, the focus gives Germany access to a “Cruiser Submarine.” This sub is a sort of tech 2.5 Sub with extended range, some unique module options, including catapult planes, and the ability to be upgraded with a snorkel.

index.php


Part of my plan for giving England a hard time included mining up the English Channel. I executed this plan with a cruiser sub equipped with naval mines and plane catapults. These plane catapults boost the sub’s surface detection, giving them an advantage in being detected and helping them remain invisible, at least for the first couple years of the war.

index.php


I made a tech 3 sub-variant for minelaying the Eastern North Sea and a tech 3 raider-sub for Cap Verde Plain. When I demanded Danzig from Poland in August of ‘39 I had 79 Subs of various roles ready and much of the Trade Interdiction doctrine complete. This focus on raiding will give my subs a further detection advantage over other countries that have yet to complete their convoy escort doctrines.

Speaking of the naval doctrines, we have made some changes all around to account for the new combat system and apply a bit of balance. In particular, we have given some buffs to the Trade Interdiction doctrine to make it more attractive than it was previously. We have added additional survivability for submarines and more of an edge in surface detection values. Capital ships have received some defensive increases as well.

index.php


Torpedo reveal chance is a new thing for subs. When subs are in combat, attacking no longer guarantees that a sub will reveal itself. Baseline, subs have a 50% chance to reveal themselves when launching a torpedo volley. This can further be improved through doctrines and admiral traits. This makes ambushing protected convoys safer and retreating when too many destroyers show up easier.

In my campaign, I capitulated France in early December of ‘39. To help with the Axis’s naval situation I formed Vichy France. Before France fell they had been contesting my raiding of Cap Verde Plain to the best of their ability, but I was still seeing some success. Forming Vichy France put more ships in the hands of the Axis and would further help to stretch the limits of what England could endure at sea.

With Vichy France on my side, early 1940 saw a massive spike in convoys raided as Cap Verde Plain and the Mid-Atlantic were now completely covered. By this point, I had ~20 dockyards producing subs for minelaying and raiding. All of my newest tech 3 Raiders were seeing great success in under the guidance of Karl Dönitz. Even when contested by British convoy escorts, they were able to get a respectable amount of kills and retreat. Naval bombers were also ramping up operations in the English channel.

index.php


We have added a new effect to convoy raiding, war support reduction due to raiding. By mid-1940, Canada had been raided to 0 convoys and had their war support reduced to a point where they were no longer able to support War Economy. This helps to promote raiding and discourages blunt forcing convoys through an area where you are being raided.

index.php


By early ‘41 England had been choked out of convoys and fuel and was unable to keep their navy running and were about open to a naval invasion. By mid ‘41 I had naval invaded the UK and was Setup for an attack on Russia.

See you all next week!

This DD could've been better - I wasn't a fan of the AAR style and it just made submarines sound like they're terribly OP now and the AI doesn't know how to deal with them.
 
Unwanted

Micormic

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I didn't realize people cares so much about HOI3 vs HOI4


Truth is HOI3 was too much while HOI4 is too dumbed down. If there was a game somewhere in the middle it would be perfect.


Now Vicky 2? That was a good game.
 

Space Satan

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I suppose there's a difference between being threatened by destroyers and being completely wiped out by them. Now subs have no chance of survival at all even against earliest destroyers. They just murder any number of subs you can build.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Yea, current sub gameplay is pretty much entirely about simply building them in gigantic numbers to offset constant losses. And truth be told, you aren't really even hunting convoys, you're trying to dent the enemy fleets.

One thing that this might do is that sub-hunter fleets would have to be purpose built rather than just a side project for the deathstack fleet. And at the very least it makes convoy hunting a much more dangerous thing (another thing I would think is nice is if the foreign company mechanic could be used to move resources more around the globe instead of focused in mainlands).

In terms of mod perspective, the big thing I'd wish for is if the fuel mechanic could be used to add food in. Personally I'd say that's at least if not more important than having fuel (which I think still worked sort of fine in the previous form as a part of the equipment construction process).

I didn't realize people cares so much about HOI3 vs HOI4


Truth is HOI3 was too much while HOI4 is too dumbed down. If there was a game somewhere in the middle it would be perfect.


Now Vicky 2? That was a good game.
Vicky 2 did a lot of things poorly. For one thing, the economic was all about coal/lumber/iron autarky, and the war model is a complete mess (the way it ties regiments to provincial pops is even worse than the levy system of CK2) with an even worse mobilization system. The whole thing couldn't manage teching and blobbing very well either. I love Vicky 2, but it really deserves at minimum a total overhaul of the way wars are fought and units are raised, and at least its military tech system (tech system it has in general should be totally revised from scratch).
 

IHaveHugeNick

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I know I sound like a broken record, but I still see no reason to bother with any of these new systems, when I can just have a deathstack of naval bombers. This dev diary emphasizes that it only works with research and focuses. And that's precisely the problem. Doing research and focuses is a finite resource limited by time you have available.

I'd much rather spend that time on researching air doctrine than naval doctrine, because the former is much more versatile and has more applications. Or on researching refineries so I don't have to worry about naval blockade because I have my own oil. Same goes with focues, I get a special kind of ship? Whoppity-fucking-do, but there's much more pressing and vital focuses in the 3rd Reich focus tree.

The reality is that after you take France, Belgium, Netherlands and Poland, you pretty much have more factories than you know what to do with. It's trivial to put two stacks of bombers in Mediterranean, one near Gibraltar and another on Suez. That's the route convoys from India and Singapore take as well as convoys to support the front in Africa. So UK's AI just keeps sending ships to contend with Vichy and Italian fleets and your bombers and their fleet is slowly being grind to dust. Meanwhile you can just lend ship technology from Japan and keep building your own naval deathstack in Germany for when the time comes.

I don't know, maybe the AI will react to excessive amount of land-based naval bombers and it will respond with spamming tons of those anti-air ships. But I think that's fabulously optimistic.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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As concluded before, you either have land-based naval bombers that are worthless, or ones that completely break naval warfare. Only those two extremes are possible, and yea the dev diary doesn't give much hope this has been considered sufficiently.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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As concluded before, you either have land-based naval bombers that are worthless, or ones that completely break naval warfare. Only those two extremes are possible, and yea the dev diary doesn't give much hope this has been considered sufficiently.

I would guess there was no community feedback on that. Probably few people even try it, because it's so counter-intuitive. I didn't even try it myself until like a year of playing. I was researching naval doctrine, building best ships and so forth. But once I was bored and decided to build a stack of 2000 naval bombers, spread it into key areas and see what happens.

And what happened was absolute mayhem. Not only they wreck the Allied fleet, I can just leave them unattended to do their thing and pay no attention to it.
 
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In general, either the naval war is won easily (through some lopsided abuse of naval bombers/battleships/carriers/etc) or most players other than the US/UK/Japan will ignore it. There's no reason for most nations to invest significant resources in naval warfare in order to fight at 1:1 parity and stalemate the AI.
 
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Micormic

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Vicky 2 did a lot of things poorly. For one thing, the economic was all about coal/lumber/iron autarky, and the war model is a complete mess (the way it ties regiments to provincial pops is even worse than the levy system of CK2) with an even worse mobilization system. The whole thing couldn't manage teching and blobbing very well either. I love Vicky 2, but it really deserves at minimum a total overhaul of the way wars are fought and units are raised, and at least its military tech system (tech system it has in general should be totally revised from scratch).


All those things are true, But vicky 2 was still the best paradox game :)
 

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