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Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,698
Did you deny the Rhineland?
I noticed that if you get the UK's help for Rhineland you get thrown into the Allies, which screws up the Little Entente AND Buy Time because you can't invite the other Eastern European nations into the Entente since you aren't faction leader and you can't do Go With Britain or France Leads because you are in a faction.

France seems really poorly designed, what were they thinking?
France is powerhouse that doesn't need bonuses or stuff. If you win against Germany early, there would be no interesting war with Germany for UK and Russia. And then you can simply use massive French manpower to conquer the world. Or at least occupy US.
 
Joined
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14,276
Tbh there's no nations in hoi4 that run out of manpower if you're not an AI suiciding into enemy lines with the battle planner. Even relatively weak nations like Poland has millions once you start upping the laws and 2 million should be more than enough for everything. The economic penalties of harsher conscription laws are far weaker than they appear since by the point you get them your giant economic tech bonuses far exceed them
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,285
Location
Poland
Tbh there's no nations in hoi4 that run out of manpower if you're not an AI suiciding into enemy lines with the battle planner. Even relatively weak nations like Poland has millions once you start upping the laws and 2 million should be more than enough for everything. The economic penalties of harsher conscription laws are far weaker than they appear since by the point you get them your giant economic tech bonuses far exceed them
Poland is not weak its almost on par with Italy it just has bad position in a WW2 game. It has good industry and big population.

There are however several decent industry countries with bad manpower like South Africa, Australia, Canada and Bulgaria. Especially as AUS a few lost divisions and you suddenly cant even cover your fronts...
 
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I couldn't think of a country to name that was a mid power (like halfway between Poland and Belgium). I guess Spain might be an example of the minimum manpower needed to fight a "real" war
 

CthuluIsSpy

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Dec 26, 2014
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
So I beat Germany. Sort of.
What I did was form the Entente, and then declared war on Germany when they attacked Czechoslovakia. And then a German Civil war happened and I just had to wait for the Germans to beat themselves. It was...surprisingly easy, even my Light Tanks did some good work.
Like a dumbass though I liberated a German state, so I didn't get the Big Entente Achievement. Maybe when the Soviets attack.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,285
Location
Poland
So I beat Germany. Sort of.
What I did was form the Entente, and then declared war on Germany when they attacked Czechoslovakia. And then a German Civil war happened and I just had to wait for the Germans to beat themselves. It was...surprisingly easy, even my Light Tanks did some good work.
Like a dumbass though I liberated a German state, so I didn't get the Big Entente Achievement. Maybe when the Soviets attack.
Well you inspired me to try France again, did historical war in 1939 normal infantry build and air. Germany pressed me a bit but once I achieved air superiority I could devote forces to kill Italy and then Germany was overextended and died. Didn't even decc soviets.
 

CthuluIsSpy

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Is Nazi Germany the only nation that generates world tension or something? Half the world is at war with the Soviet Union now and the World Tension isn't even at 50%.
Japan is doing its thing and taking pacific islands, and Italy is just chilling. I guess without Hitler around Italy will remain passive.
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
985
I was bored so I played a campaign of darkest hour, the WW1 scenario. Played austria-hungary and knocked out Russia. Some weird stuff happened, Ottomans got wiped by russia and joined the allies like 2-3 years later. Attacked Netherlands to breakthrough in northern France. Attacked Switzerland to breakthrough northern italy and central france.

image.png


image.png


Attacked France again to get to spain. Puppeted France. Attacked Spain to get to portugal, spain is easy pickings in ww1.

image.png


image.png


Attacked all the Russian civil war states to get to the north Caucus. Attacked Sweden and norway because I was bored.


Was fun playing a hearts of iron game that isn't dumbed down dogshit.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,276
XXqQm4W.jpeg


Yeah this feels fair.

Felt inspired by AI czechoslovakia surviving the last game.

EDIT:

Think I've got this with hungary capitulated. Spent the last few years being unable to import resources but I guess I'm close enough to france now that I can?

j4VbwPx.jpeg
 
Last edited:
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14,276
mm9ypqw.jpeg


Done, and won immediately before Japan attacked the allies and probably would have been drawn in to the axis.

Surprisingly the forts weren't even... that important? I rushed them when I could have waited and only gotten level 5. Ran with 6 cav/1 art/sup art/sup AA/eng/rangers.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,698
I just saw like totally insane UK AI behavior. They forbade to entry theirs transport ships into zones around British isles, thus they were not receiving any oil or rubber.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,698
How do you use carriers? I can't use their planes when it is docked nor can I use the planes when I send them on missions, so how do I use them?
You put carriers into fleet and add some battleships and CA. Then you add CL and DD.
So it doesn't matter what Naval Mission I use? That's good to know. I'm going to be playing US next, and I have feeling that I'm going to be using a lot of ships.
Isn't US totally OP?

Play Japan strengthen US a bit and hope AI would put some fight.
Or play UK, democrats, or fascists. Or you can try UK screaming that Russia isn't correct way of communism. (But you'd need to do decolonization, because colonies are dishonorable stuff that only capitalists did. Thus you give them freedom, and then wonder to where all that economy disappeared.)
 
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So it doesn't matter what Naval Mission I use? That's good to know. I'm going to be playing US next, and I have feeling that I'm going to be using a lot of ships.
I believe if the carrier is in combat they'll automatically do their thing. The naval mission is only for using them while the carrier is not in combat.
 

CthuluIsSpy

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There doesn't seem to be anyway for aircraft to automatically support troops though unless you park the carrier in the middle of the ocean. Which completely defeats the point of a fleet, as I don't think it generates supremacy that way. I don't know why you can't send aircraft on missions when the carrier is docked, that doesn't make sense gameplay wise.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,069
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
How do you use carriers? I can't use their planes when it is docked nor can I use the planes when I send them on missions, so how do I use them?
You put carriers into fleet and add some battleships and CA. Then you add CL and DD.
So it doesn't matter what Naval Mission I use? That's good to know. I'm going to be playing US next, and I have feeling that I'm going to be using a lot of ships.
Isn't US totally OP?

Play Japan strengthen US a bit and hope AI would put some fight.
Or play UK, democrats, or fascists. Or you can try UK screaming that Russia isn't correct way of communism. (But you'd need to do decolonization, because colonies are dishonorable stuff that only capitalists did. Thus you give them freedom, and then wonder to where all that economy disappeared.)
Yeah, US is easy mode. The only issue I have with them is that they have no rubber but you want an airforce, so it takes bloody ages to fully equip your carrier fleet AND build B52s (why would you not build them as the US? Its historical) AND build standard planes.
Also it takes so long to build capital ships that by the time you built them they are already obsolete. Buy the time you build a Midway the war is probably already over lol. I wish there was an upgrade option.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Messages
8,069
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
So I discovered that carriers do not give airsupport during a naval invasion support mission. Which is stupid and really counter-intuitive. Not sure why Paradox doesn't allow that. I guess they don't watch war movies?
 
Last edited:
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14,276
In general you can assume that anything weird about navy is an unintended bug or engine limitation rather than an intentional design choice. So few people care about navy anyway
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,698
So I discovered that carriers do not give airsupport during a naval invasion support mission. Which is the stupid and really counter-intuitive. Not sure why Paradox doesn't allow that. I guess they don't watch war movies?
You are supposed to park CV group near and select mission and air zone manually. How a carrier group should know which invasion should support?
BTW HoI2 also didn't have automatic CV support. You had naval barrage from battleships.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,069
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
So I discovered that carriers do not give airsupport during a naval invasion support mission. Which is the stupid and really counter-intuitive. Not sure why Paradox doesn't allow that. I guess they don't watch war movies?
You are supposed to park CV group near and select mission and air zone manually. How a carrier group should know which invasion should support?
BTW HoI2 also didn't have automatic CV support. You had naval barrage from battleships.
You could park, but then you lose naval supremacy for that fleet. Which is a problem. Apparently fleets on hold don't detect nor engage enemy fleets, which is kind of silly.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,688
How do you use carriers? I can't use their planes when it is docked nor can I use the planes when I send them on missions, so how do I use them?
You put carriers into fleet and add some battleships and CA. Then you add CL and DD.
So it doesn't matter what Naval Mission I use? That's good to know. I'm going to be playing US next, and I have feeling that I'm going to be using a lot of ships.
Isn't US totally OP?

Play Japan strengthen US a bit and hope AI would put some fight.
Or play UK, democrats, or fascists. Or you can try UK screaming that Russia isn't correct way of communism. (But you'd need to do decolonization, because colonies are dishonorable stuff that only capitalists did. Thus you give them freedom, and then wonder to where all that economy disappeared.)
Yeah, US is easy mode. The only issue I have with them is that they have no rubber but you want an airforce, so it takes bloody ages to fully equip your carrier fleet AND build B52s (why would you not build them as the US? Its historical) AND build standard planes.
Also it takes so long to build capital ships that by the time you built them they are already obsolete. Buy the time you build a Midway the war is probably already over lol. I wish there was an upgrade option.

As U.S., I tend to build a few refineries strictly for rubber and stack aluminum via PP spending on Expand/Develop resources. You can build an absolutely monster air force even w/ Free Trade & General Motors going; put in Industrial concern policies that raise efficiency rate/cap, put it on a Continuous Focus, etc. Instead of spending PP on high military command or even theorists, I just keep dumping into resource/industrial development. Then by the time I partake in the action, I fill those roles out and I have a massive industry that doesn't need to lean on outside trade. GM + Free Trade is 20% production, not even taking into account the industrial concern/policy bonuses. Sometimes I don't even bother going off Partial Mobilization because it feels like a waste of PP.
 
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Jan 7, 2012
Messages
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My search for the best division has led me to this:

1EfHVXd.png


I have been redpilled on the effectiveness of flame tanks. They add static terrain modifiers like the rangers and pioneers while also contributing armor. From what I can tell armor doesn't reduce enemy damage against you much (it's scaled by how much your armor beats their piercing, which means only really tough divisions benefit), but any amount of armor advantage seems to still mean you deal +50% org damage to them, which is what really matters (your divisions are cheap, you just want to be able to push). Making medium flame tanks and maximizing their armor (keep 6.4 km/h to not slow down the cavalry) seems the best, armor comparable to heavy flame tanks, better terrain modifiers, less cost. My current flame tanks only cost 111 production which is actually less than engineers.

When stacking terrain bonuses like this cavalry actually becomes basically equivalent or better than special forces even on terrain the special forces are optimized for. Math looks like:

Special forces: 266 soft attack -25% on large river = 199 soft attack
Cavalry (using a 6 cav to compare with a 3/3 marine/mountaineer stack): 248 soft attack - 40% on large river + 28% cavalry bonuses (12% general 6% field marshal 10% cavalry advisor) = 190 soft attack. Both special forces and cavalry get infantry bonuses so they cancel out, cav just also gets cav bonuses. Math isn't exactly like this in reality but close enough.

So using cav has basically no drawback even in the worst terrains unless you're combining attacking into mountains and across large rivers (which... just don't do that). In return you don't have to worry about Special Forces limit and get 60% more movement speed. You don't need more than infantry movement speed to encircle AI but its definitely nice.

Downside is it takes until late 1940 to really do this unless you're a nation that can rush multiple techs. You need 1939 engi to unlock flamers, 1940 to unlock 2nd special forces doctrine, 2 1940 techs to start producing rocket artillery, and you really need the sup firepower doctrine's +50% support company soft attack to bring it all together. That's a lot of tech cutoffs and a lot of land XP. If you're gonna fight earlier you really need at least 1 line AT in something like a 6 cav/1 art build to make it combat effective but that lowers your movement speed and terrain modifiers.

Also you have no AA so this assumes you have air superiority. Which you should kind of have by late 1940s tbh. AI seems to really produce shit planes that get increasingly worse and overpriced compared to yours over time.

Now to find a fun nation to play late game to test this out with. Oh wait, it's hoi4, such a thing doesn't exist...
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,698
You could try mongolia.
 

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