Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

[Fedora Master]

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

So tried to survive as France against Germany.
> Didn't give them Rhineland
> Didn't give them Sudentenland
> Ended up fighting them in 1938
> Actually held the line, but it took a lot of manpower and I couldn't push though
> Got a bunch of allies and finally took land from Germany.
> The USSR attacked Poland and joined the Axis (lol)
> Then Italy finally entered the war and just pushed up my southern border before I had a change to reinforce it.

I gave up at that point. I had no equipment, no men, the USSR and Germany were colluding and my men couldn't so shit against the German divisions.
What's the secret to surviving as France? I don't want to give Hitler the Rhineland or Sudentenland. What's annoying is that an early war is supposed to hurt him, but apparently the Germans just get a stupid number of buffs?

 

[None]

What's the secret to surviving as France?

I've held out as the Netherlands before and I assume things would be the same as France, although easier unless things have changed enough. The general idea is to let the Germans throw themselves at you and to counterattack once they're exhausted.

You can get extra manpower by releasing puppets and using their manpower to train divisions.
Don't make too large of divisions, as you'll need to rotate them in and out of prolonged fights (larger divisions won't get an opportunity to recover). You can have a few large ones as your anchors if the meta still encourages that. Maintenance companies can soak up some enemy equipment and maybe even help build a few extra divisions. Prioritize the basics like infantry & support equipment, artillery, etc. Start producing more expensive things later into the war when you're preparing your counteroffensive.
Build fighters and focus on air superiority in your territories. Bombers can come later.
Get your intel maxed out in Germany so that they get the reduced planning bonus or whatever it is.

I haven't played since before NSB so I'm not familiar with the finer details nowadays, but that is the gist of it. Pour all your efforts into being unbreakable, let the Germans break themselves on you, then counterattack. Repeat if necessary.

What's annoying is that an early war is supposed to hurt him, but apparently the Germans just get a stupid number of buffs?

Germany has far less issues at the start of the game than France, the UK, etc. Try waiting until 1940 and see if that helps, it isn't like France doesn't have a few things it needs to unfuck before being capable of fighting.

 

[Raghar]

So tried to survive as France against Germany.
> Didn't give them Rhineland
> Didn't give them Sudentenland
> Ended up fighting them in 1938
> Actually held the line, but it took a lot of manpower and I couldn't push though
> Got a bunch of allies and finally took land from Germany.
> The USSR attacked Poland and joined the Axis (lol)
> Then Italy finally entered the war and just pushed up my southern border before I had a change to reinforce it.

I gave up at that point. I had no equipment, no men, the USSR and Germany were colluding and my men couldn't so shit against the German divisions.
What's the secret to surviving as France? I don't want to give Hitler the Rhineland or Sudentenland. What's annoying is that an early war is supposed to hurt him, but apparently the Germans just get a stupid number of buffs?

What buffs?

 

[Average Manatee]

I gave up at that point. I had no equipment, no men, the USSR and Germany were colluding and my men couldn't so shit against the German divisions.
What's the secret to surviving as France? I don't want to give Hitler the Rhineland or Sudentenland. What's annoying is that an early war is supposed to hurt him, but apparently the Germans just get a stupid number of buffs?

Meme divisions that get 10:1 K:D, knowing how to optimize tech and industry.

I don't think the AI understands terrain modifiers much if at all, so hiding behind a river with forts should allow you to massacre them till every adult aged male of the axis exists in a wall of dead bodies on your frontline. They won't concentrate multiple divisions with great river crossing and fort modifiers to hurt you. Add in a single battalion of armor to get armor bonuses and throw the rest into air and you'll take 10:1 K:D ratio up to like 30:1.

Full disclosure I haven't played HoI4 vanilla in a long, long time because they've just added so much stupid fucking shit to deal with.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

What's the secret to surviving as France?

I've held out as the Netherlands before and I assume things would be the same as France, although easier unless things have changed enough. The general idea is to let the Germans throw themselves at you and to counterattack once they're exhausted.

You can get extra manpower by releasing puppets and using their manpower to train divisions.
Don't make too large of divisions, as you'll need to rotate them in and out of prolonged fights (larger divisions won't get an opportunity to recover). You can have a few large ones as your anchors if the meta still encourages that. Maintenance companies can soak up some enemy equipment and maybe even help build a few extra divisions. Prioritize the basics like infantry & support equipment, artillery, etc. Start producing more expensive things later into the war when you're preparing your counteroffensive.
Build fighters and focus on air superiority in your territories. Bombers can come later.
Get your intel maxed out in Germany so that they get the reduced planning bonus or whatever it is.

I haven't played since before NSB so I'm not familiar with the finer details nowadays, but that is the gist of it. Pour all your efforts into being unbreakable, let the Germans break themselves on you, then counterattack. Repeat if necessary.

What's annoying is that an early war is supposed to hurt him, but apparently the Germans just get a stupid number of buffs?

Germany has far less issues at the start of the game than France, the UK, etc. Try waiting until 1940 and see if that helps, it isn't like France doesn't have a few things it needs to unfuck before being capable of fighting.

Do I get the puppet's strategic resources? I did consider releasing them, but I was worried I would lose control of rubber. France does not have access to any oil unless you trade, which is pretty annoying too.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

What's the secret to surviving as France? I don't want to give Hitler the Rhineland or Sudentenland. What's annoying is that an early war is supposed to hurt him, but apparently the Germans just get a stupid number of buffs?

Stalling. Let them have Rineland and Sudetenland, extend the Maginot, manually build fort levels to 10, also try to do the same for the southern front with Italy. Prioritize CAS and Artillery, go for buffs that give defense as you want the Germans to grind on you until they give up and focus Barb. Once the USA joins, Push as hard as possible into Germany and pretty much end the war with no issue.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I kind of want to not give them the Rhineland and Sudentenland though. Then again, it seems that refusing the Sudentenland doesn't really do anything and they just drag you into a war anyway? Refusing Rhineland has a chance of them backing down and giving them a debuff, iirc.

 

[Joggerino]

Can I get a mod recommendation that makes playing Japan very hard and challenging?

 

[None]

Do I get the puppet's strategic resources? I did consider releasing them, but I was worried I would lose control of rubber. France does not have access to any oil unless you trade, which is pretty annoying too.

You'll have to trade for what you need but you get it at better rates than nonpuppets. Considering you receive a share of their factories and the default focus tree gives a handful you may end up coming out ahead anyways.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Can France even puppet nations? On the subject nation screen it says liberate, not puppet.

 

[Malakal]

Can I get a mod recommendation that makes playing Japan very hard and challenging?

Unfortunately that would require AI to understand navy and airforce...

Try the usual suspects like BlackICE and World Ablaze.

 

[Average Manatee]

Can France even puppet nations? On the subject nation screen it says liberate, not puppet.

Click flag->occupied territories-> release nation.

If you want to game it release as many small ones as you can. Lots of their territory is literally no factories or resources but they'll get the full generic NF tree to magically summon a bunch of factories out of the ether, and you can always use their (full, not nerfed by lack of core) manpower. You can either build their divisions or just use the request garrison support option if you have occupied territory (their manpower goes to occupation freeing up yours).

I think as an allied nation you don't really get to tax those free factories that they'll spawn though, so its mostly just manpower and whatever few crap divisions they produce with their NFs. Actually annexing them all back after they make factories would work but that's a ton of mana.

 

[Joggerino]

Can I get a mod recommendation that makes playing Japan very hard and challenging?

Unfortunately that would require AI to understand navy and airforce...

Try the usual suspects like BlackICE and World Ablaze.

Thank you.

 

[Andnjord]

making sinking a ship a pretty big deal

No. Ship hits during WWII are a pure version of ultimate RNG. You can maul a ship and it will come back without a nose and billions of bullet holes a size of a crater or it can sink in MINUTES. It was the same for cannon boats, destroyers and battleships. Rolling a dice with each hit thanks to WWII legacy of overinflating main gun caliber. Ship main guns were monsters that far surpassed any armor countries could strap.

Fairly sure barely any warship in WW2 was sunk by guns, mostly torpedoes instead.

I can't even recall a single instance, not into naval warfare but still.

Well…

-USS Washington executing IJN Kirishima point blank in the night.
-HMS Warspite popping German destroyers at the third battle of Narvik.
-HMS Warspite blowing up Italian heavy Cruisers at the battle of Cape Matapan.
-American battleships that were survivors of Pearl Harbor sinking the rag tag Japanese task force at Surigao Straight.
-Japanese heavy cruisers sneaking up on American heavy cruisers and riddling them with 8” shells at night at Savo Island.
-not sinking but Warspite gave RN Giulio Cesare a bloody nose at a range of 24km making her nope out of the battle of Calabria
-Numerous ships of the smaller classes on both sides sunk at the battle off Samar.
-ABDA command (the allied fleets of Australia, Britain, The Dutch and USA at the beginning of the lacitic
Campaign) getting destroyed at the battles of the Java Sea.
-HMS Glorious (a CV) getting sunk by Scharnhorst and Gneissenau off of Norway.
-the whole of the battle of Guadalcanal was a back and forth grind of night actions that sunk a lot of ships.

And that’s just off the top of my head, so yeah, there’s a few.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Well, Italy broke through my lines again. They went through Switzerland this time. Stopping Germany from taking the Sudenenland seems to be a trap; the game is hardcoded to make Britain idiots and not nip the Reich in the bud and want to give it to them. If you fight Germany on your own you won't have British support and even with a demilitarized Rhineland you can't just cut through because French units are shittier than German units for some stupid reason.

Hitler did not declare war on Poland for some reason so Britain didn't get dragged into the war that way. The USSR did invade poland but I didn't get an invite? Oh, and Hitler somehow ended up controlling Poland anyway despite not being at war with it.

France just seems really boring to play if you try to win, because the devs put so many debuffs and give them such shitty industry that it isn't even funny. What's sad though is that historically speaking French and Britain would have been able to beat Germany had they not kept giving Hitler land.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

Oh, and Hitler somehow ended up controlling Poland anyway despite not being at war with it.

the pact triggers regardless of who started the invasion. It used to be only Germany could do it, but they've now changed it so both the USSR and Germany can trigger Molotov-Ribbentrop. Surprised me the first time it happened as well, I was doing a peaceful Hitler run and suddenly had half of Poland without firing a shot, and the Allies were at war with the USSR instead.

the game is hardcoded to make Britain idiots and not nip the Reich in the bud and want to give it to them. If you fight Germany on your own you won't have British support and even with a demilitarized Rhineland you can't just cut through because French units are shittier than German units for some stupid reason.

you are correct, the british are in fact hardcoded to be morons. I think its tied to the Edward crisis, once its over the AI then returns to its usual naval invading POS self. This is also why you let Germany just have what they want, Britian is in no condition to fight and even if you go the Churchill route of stopping Hitler early France will still get annexed its unavoidable and you're actually helping Hitler because Germany is much stronger in the early game - they get really weak in 44-45 because by then everyone else has caught up and the USA unleashes its stockpiles. As the Allies its always better to wait and play defensively. Playing as Germany, Italy or Japan is basically speedrunning, the faster you go the better the outcome.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Oh, and Hitler somehow ended up controlling Poland anyway despite not being at war with it.

the pact triggers regardless of who started the invasion. It used to be only Germany could do it, but they've now changed it so both the USSR and Germany can trigger Molotov-Ribbentrop. Surprised me the first time it happened as well, I was doing a peaceful Hitler run and suddenly had half of Poland without firing a shot, and the Allies were at war with the USSR instead.

the game is hardcoded to make Britain idiots and not nip the Reich in the bud and want to give it to them. If you fight Germany on your own you won't have British support and even with a demilitarized Rhineland you can't just cut through because French units are shittier than German units for some stupid reason.

you are correct, the british are in fact hardcoded to be morons. I think its tied to the Edward crisis, once its over the AI then returns to its usual naval invading POS self. This is also why you let Germany just have what they want, Britian is in no condition to fight and even if you go the Churchill route of stopping Hitler early France will still get annexed its unavoidable and you're actually helping Hitler because Germany is much stronger in the early game - they get really weak in 44-45 because by then everyone else has caught up and the USA unleashes its stockpiles. As the Allies its always better to wait and play defensively. Playing as Germany, Italy or Japan is basically speedrunning, the faster you go the better the outcome.

Which is odd, because it should be the opposite; France and Britain should be stronger than Germany before 1939. Is it worth denying them the Rhineland at least? Germany does seem to have a high chance of backing down and they do suffer a debuff. Historically speaking it makes sense as the Rhineland Occupation was a gamble on Hitler's part.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

Germany does seem to have a high chance of backing down and they do suffer a debuff. Historically speaking it makes sense as the Rhineland Occupation was a gamble on Hitler's part.

I think its worth taking for the debuff. Germany only gets access to its border with Belgium so its not that big a deal if they get it, but ideally getting that debuff would be handy.

France and Britain should be stronger than Germany before 1939.

yeah but that wouldn't be much fun because the USA will arrive later on and just curb stomp Germany anyway, I think its a balancing approach so that Germany will automatically be at least able to take over most of Europe. Vanilla AI can't really Sealion, I've only ever seen it in Black ICE and World Ablaze so the UK is essentially god mode in Vanilla same with the USA. Again this is more to do with Paradox's dumb bullshit which is why I say play modded, way more fun.

 

[Average Manatee]

yeah but that wouldn't be much fun because the USA will arrive later on and just curb stomp Germany anyway, I think its a balancing approach so that Germany will automatically be at least able to take over most of Europe. Vanilla AI can't really Sealion, I've only ever seen it in Black ICE and World Ablaze so the UK is essentially god mode in Vanilla same with the USA. Again this is more to do with Paradox's dumb bullshit which is why I say play modded, way more fun.

Yeah, HoI basically has to hard code French defeat otherwise every other nation in the game has a chance of not being able to play WW2 in a WW2 game.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Well that's pretty annoying. I guess that's one reason to go a-historical.
Is it better to go down the firepower kills path or extend maginot path? I really want dakka and tanks, but it seems that if I'm expected to turtle and I'm not allowed to do literally anything else it might be better to extend the maginot. I guess the firepower path might be better if you go Fash, but if you're going on the offense there's a whole branch for that.

Apparently you used to be able to beat Germany solo at the Rhineland event, but when I try it I just get bogged down, even if I go into the Rhineland with Degaulle and all of the motorized, cav and truck units I have.

 

[Beans00]

Dude hoi4 is complete dogshit. Play hoi3 or hoi darkest hour(upgraded hoi2) if you want a good single player ww2 game.

 

[Average Manatee]

I think the ideal is to go for whatever paths boost industry and removes all of your "cheese eating surrender monkey" modifiers.

You are not going to be able to make armored divisions as a nation who starts with 8 mil factories and is in an early war. Just get the basics down (infantry, artillery, some support AA and fighters/CAS once you have more industry). Once war starts get at least like 2-3 forts wherever you're gonna hold out for a while since they are cheap.

 

[Beans00]

Fun fact, once in a hoi4 multiplayer game I was on team axis, playing hungary or romania someone small and I convinced our japan player who was a retarded american that I was a real life spy giving secrets away to the Chinese in exchange for an apartment in hong kong when the USA collapsed.

The average IQ of hoi4 multiplayer is literally like 80. Absolutely dire.

 

[Average Manatee]

What's really annoying about this is that despite looking simple, to actually play it well in mp (or as a difficult nation) requires more micro because you're constantly wrestling with the fronts and shit