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Heroes of Might & Magic 7

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Infinitron, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. theSavant Self-Ejected

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    The Quick Combat feature is almost too good. Especially for battles with neutral armies I found myself skipping combat most of the time and using Quick Combat instead. Not sure if this is good. I remember that these smaller battles made up part of the Heroes feeling: you win small battles, get stronger, and for each victory the army felt more personal. However with the Quick Combat it kinda detaches you from the army. It's as if not *you* won the battle, but the computer (which is actually true).

    So the only battles you actively take part in are the ones against other factions. Basically - when you have 2 opponents you'll have 2 battles and the session is done (mostly the opponent has lost when you killed their largest army). While I can see a much faster gameplay (especially in multiplayer) it still makes me scratch the head.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
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  2. Eirikur Arcane Patron

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    HOMM2 had a peculiar faction balance, with two factions being most powerful in the early game, two in the mid-game, and two in the late game (on average), IIRC.

    Any impression on faction balance in HOMM7 so far? Are Colossi and Shadow Dragons OP? Is Haven terrible in late game?

    I haven't followed the beta so far, and realize it might be too early to ask.
     
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  3. Zeriel Arcane

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    It's way too early to say (multiplayer is still buggy, and multiplayer is where real balance is figured out), but I'd say it's a safe bet that the imbalances will be more in skills than units.
     
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  4. Bubbles I'm forever blowing

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  5. Suicidal Arcane

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    Mah nigga, you speak the truths. This is one of the reasons I think HoMM 5 (and when I say HoMM 5 I mean Tribes) is among the best HoMM games and is pretty close to 3. Sure there are lot of things that annoy me in that game, but it's not like the other HoMMs are some sort of flawless holy grail of TBS. That's why I cringe whenever someone claims that the game is absolute shit with no redeeming factors because he doesn't like how the skeletons' dicks look or something.
     
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  6. Jaedar Arcane Patron

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    I played a bit more of this, and the balance seems all kinds out of whack. I am not sure the higher tier units feel as good as they should be, but I don't think I've played enough to say for sure. The bigger issue is the skills and talents.

    Some of them seem simply worthless. Take for example the defence and offence trees. In previous heroes games, they've provided +10/+20/+30% or similar to creature damage done/taken . In this, they provide +1/+2/+3 might/defence. The first level is especially pathetic. But that's not useless, but there is far worse. Like a skill that provides a damage shield of between 2-20 damage. Which is not a lot the first week, and absolutely nothing after the first month. And sadly, it feels like a lot of the stuff falls into this, because they provide a flat amount of bonus. I guess there might be a hidden scaling, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    Then there are the heroes, which also seem a bit weird. Like the fire specialized one, that can't actually get the highest tier of fire spells, because that level of fire magic isn't available (don't worry, she can supermaster prime magic instead!). Or the dude who starts with one tier 6 troop in his army. It feels like they are half-baked.
     
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  7. tindrli Arcane

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    there are no dual upgrade for units?
     
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  8. Bubbles I'm forever blowing

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    No, would've been too complex.
     
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  9. tyrannosaurus rex Unwanted Douchebag! Shitposter

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    haha holy shit are you paraphrasing what they told you or actually believing?
     
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  10. Bubbles I'm forever blowing

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    A bit of both. You'll be able to interpret their words for yourself soon enough!
     
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  11. tyrannosaurus rex Unwanted Douchebag! Shitposter

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    Adding alternate upgrades is minimal work in this game. What this helps evidence is that they are obviously inefficient and working on a shoestring budget. I would be surprised if Ubisoft thew more than 2 million at Erwan's face. Which explains why they can't afford QA and released an early access which features less than 50% of the game's content value. This was probably part of their deal, ''give us only a pity budget, we'll figure out how to get the rest before launch''.

    Hear me, soon they will have the audacity to throw a kickstarter
     
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  12. theSavant Self-Ejected

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    Actually they might be right. In fact I experienced that dual upgrades totally fucked up the AI in Heroes 4. If you were playing against AI the AI made dumb decisions to build his army, made different upgrades from the same creature, or mixed armies with upgraded and non-upgraded creatures.

    They fixed that shit in Heroes 5 though, but I hardly played vanilla. Then the expansion "Heroes 5 - Hammers of Fate" was released: it only offered single upgrades - but behold it was the strongest AI I ever experienced. It was almost on par with Heroes 3. The AI always made strong armies with fully upgraded creatures. However with "Heroes 5 - Tribes of the East", they re-invented dual upgrades and tha AI once again became more stupid. The AI mostly behaves "good" in ToTE, but I still remember it stronger in Hammers of Fate. One weird behaviour I saw in ToTE was, that the AI always had 1 slot free in his army, or again mixed upgraded with nonupgraded creatures, which automatically made him weaker.
    "Hammers of Fate" however never had these mistakes, the AI always created a full featured upgraded army.
     
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  13. tyrannosaurus rex Unwanted Douchebag! Shitposter

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    I fail to see how this has anything to do with alternate upgrades. Heroes 4 was made on a budget almost as pitiful as the current heroes, no wonder the AI was retarded. So did TotE, who probably had to deal with a lot of technical debt. I'm not even sure if anyone reasonably expected a Heroes 6 after TotE.
     
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  14. Jaedar Arcane Patron

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    I don't think its reasonable to expect this from a base heroes game tbh. It's a lot of extra modeling, designing, balancing and such.

    Looking forward to it!
     
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  15. tyrannosaurus rex Unwanted Douchebag! Shitposter

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    Define : a lot.
     
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  16. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

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  17. Jaedar Arcane Patron

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    33% more. But that's at a minimum, since when there's only one upgrade, its fine if it is kinda soulless ++ stats. All heroes game have had that kinda of upgrades, and often in majority. But having dual upgrades where the only difference is +1attack/+1defence is not a lot of fun. So you need to figure out some interesting difference between the two upgrades.

    So in terms of design and balancing, its probably as much extra work as the base designs/upgrades.
     
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  18. tyrannosaurus rex Unwanted Douchebag! Shitposter

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    35 alternate reskins of the first upgrade would be the content value of a single room in a corridor FPS. The balancing in a non competitive game with a system and battleground that simple is child's play. They never tried to get it right anyway.
     
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  19. theSavant Self-Ejected

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    One does not simply "plug in" new creatures and it's done. That said I wonder if they ever rewrote the game code from scratch. It has been rumored in the past that the code was often re-used from very old versions, despite it being a bloody mess.
     
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  20. Archibald Arcane

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    Interesting, I played AoW and HoMM4 a lot but never really made the connection. Why do you find them similar?

    I think they are simply milking it. They probably didn't pay much for the franchise and every little profit they make is "good enough" in their book. Turn based strategy games aren't very hip at the moment so they probably do not expect this franchise to be big money maker anyway.

    Never saw a problem with speed stat. Sure, more detailed stats are nice thing to have, but HoMM is not ToEE, you are operating at higher level and some level of abstraction is both necessary and understandable.

    Either way it was already "fixed" in HoMM4 where units had separate speed and movement stats. As for HoMM5, I think that initiative system fucked up retaliations where with aid of haste spells units were constantly getting free attacks on their slower opponents. Being able to act first is very important in turn based games, being able to act twice before opponent gets to do anything is really problematic.
     
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  21. curry Arcane

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    Played the beta for a few hours and sure feels like a lot like HoMM 3. :salute:
     
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  22. Cnaiur Savant

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    You can't just drop that hype bomb here and not inform your beloved comrades on the how and why.
     
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  23. Zeriel Arcane

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    He's trolling, or just had really low expectations of Heroes 7. It's not a good game, not anything like 3, but I guess if you used 6 as a benchmark it might lead you to say something like that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
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  24. Jaedar Arcane Patron

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    Yeah. It might be a good entry in the series if it gets an expansion or two.

    Although from the way Bubbles is talking, I'm sensing that's highly unlikely.
     
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  25. Archibald Arcane

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    Yeah, it feels like we might get couple of patches to iron out some bigger bugs and thats that.
     
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