Heroes of Might & Magic 7

[dibens]

HoMM3 is The Empire Strikes Back of HoMM series.

 

[Black]

What does that even mean?

 

[dibens]

What does that even mean?

It means I'm your father.

 

[Black]

Man, do you have shitty taste in women or what

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

How many times did you lose to the AI in AOW3?

In the dlc campaigns (the only ones I've played) on normal difficulty it happened to me a few times. The AI is a standard fare tb AI so it usually plays to deal as many casualties as it can and is pretty good at killing your leader/heroes. It did have some retarded stuff, like not being able to use spells in tactical combat for some time, but it's patched now.

In heroes IV there was a statistic called :"shots" Once the AI is out of "shots" they're incapable of using a ranged attack, in which case it moves into melee.

No, that's not what I meant.

So, I wanted to play this game but it won't work on my shitty laptop. What's the consensus on the best HoMM? Three?

Anyway...

I - interesting as a gaming history lesson, not much point devoting longer time to it to be fair. Though the unit designs are worth witnessing.
II - good game, worth playing for the visuals and music alone, tons of charm. Bit rough around the edges, horrible faction balance which is a big deal in multiplayer.
III - improves on II in everything but the visuals (though they are still wonderful) and economics (too easy to get rich even on impossible). Not the best game in the world objectively, but definitely my most played one. Awesome in multiplayer and pretty much the perfect hot seat game.
IV - typical rushed cash grab, game was utter abortion on release. Later on I guess some things got patched and some people like it, but the game never really got an expansion that would actually expand and improve it, not really worth playing imo. Also the first game to drop the characteristic graphic style that made Heroes some of the very best looking computer games in history.
V - bland on release, some genuinely good ideas, some genuinely bad ones, horrible graphics. It has a standalone expansion, Tribes of the East, that is definitely the best HOMM game after the III was released.
VI - I liked the idea of hero development being a skill tree with 100% player control, it's something I always wanted to see in the series and I didn't even mind the fact that they turned spells into skills too (although I'd prefer them staying in the magic guild). And that's the only good thing about it. The rest is basically a big pile of perfectly soulless and uninspired content marred by many shockingly (and I mean shockingly) bad design decisions and some random, retarded "I shit on your grave" moments, like including an asian mmo faction in place of some iconic ones or actually naming the game Might and Magic: Heroes. Also doesn't work and they've dropped support a long time ago.

 

[Grinolf]

So, I wanted to play this game but it won't work on my shitty laptop. What's the consensus on the best HoMM? Three?

2 - the most appropriate choice for oldfags.
3 - the best gameplay in the series.
5 - the best game mechanic.

1 is outdated. 4 has some interesting ideas but the are poorly executed. 5 and even, from what I saw, 7 reused them far better. 6 - from what I heard is like 4 only with worse ideas and even worse execution. Didn't play it.

 

[baturinsky]

What's so good about Tribes of the East?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Branching unit upgrades done right. Pretty big and unique deal. Also everything that's good about V: initiative, decent faction balance, skill wheel, faction special abilities.

 

[Archibald]

Whats right about them? Couldn't you like retrain them from one upgrade to another for small fee making whole "decision" thing rather pointless.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

The right thing about them is that in most cases both upgrades are good, but have different uses in different situations. No clearly better ones, so that there's in fact no choice and some units remain placeholders.

 

[Grinolf]

Well, there are some upgrades that require such a specific set of conditions in order to be a better choice, that could be considered placeholders. But they are rather exceptions.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

And Heroes V in general has a small number of useless units, which is another highlight.

 

[Bubbles]

Branching unit upgrades done right. Pretty big and unique deal. Also everything that's good about V: initiative, decent faction balance, skill wheel, faction special abilities.

Also factions that play differently, but are at least vaguely balanced. As opposed to 6, with minimal difference between factions, or 3, with stupidly overpowered Necros.

horrible graphics.

 

[Black]

I hated the 'ultimate' skills in V.

 

[Archibald]

But you didn't see them at all in play from what I remember.

 

[Black]

Because getting to them was a pain in the ass.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

For some heroes it was literally impossible since their starting skill setup was wrong, was kinda "so dumb it's almost funny".

 

[Bubbles]

There's also an AI patch for V that's supposed to be very good.

 

[Nevill]

I - interesting as a gaming history lesson, not much point devoting longer time to it to be fair. Though the unit designs are worth witnessing.

Interesting graphics design, and I loved the spell system that wasn't mana-based for once. It had a very fresh feel to it when I first tried Heroes 1 after 2, 3 and 4. It's a shame that variations of this system aren't used more often - but I guess is could only be meaningful at low levels which is why it was ditched in later installments.

II - good game, worth playing for the visuals and music alone, tons of charm. Bit rough around the edges, horrible faction balance which is a big deal in multiplayer.

Some think that Heroes 3 was PoE of Heroes series and they have balanced all the fun out of the game. It is kind of true that factions in HoMM2 play very differently from each other due to how uneven they are. Some find this more interesting.

There's also an AI patch for V that's supposed to be very good.

It is very good from what I've heard and it is made by someone with a good understanding of what AI is or should strive to be.
http://www.bonddisc.com/ref/h5/ai.htm

It has a number of isues, though. I thought the project died, but the author announced in 2014 that he is nearing 3.2 alpha release. Knowing that it's just one man, it might take a few years, though.

 

[Black]

Micro issues in AI can be pesky.

 

[VonVentrue]

HoMM II:The Succession Wars is The Empire Strikes Back of HoMM series.

There, fixed it for you. HoMM III's predecessor was much more focused in terms of design, to its unquestionable benefit - I can't extend the same compliment to the sequel, which merely took the "and a kitchen sink, too..." approach to the series, often forgetting that "more" (creatures, spells, classes) does not equal "better". Quantity over quality in this particular case.
Only the delusional "HoMM III was my introduction to the series, so it's the best by default" camp could consider the campaigns, music and overall atmosphere of II to be worse, and it is the exact same group of self-entitled, ignorant, overly vocal dunderheads (ergo: the absolute worst fanboys in the history of digital media, bar none) that ruined the series forever by preventing The Forge from ever seeing the light of day.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Some think that Heroes 3 was PoE of Heroes series and they have balanced all the fun out of the game. It is kind of true that factions in HoMM2 play very differently from each other due to how uneven they are. Some find this more interesting.

Eh, it's not like HIII is a perfectly balanced game, it's just not as hilariously skewed as in II. And I wouldn't call imbalance of II "interesting" outside of playing sp (which I never did that much), the knight has absolutely no chance versus any faction other than barbarian.

Only the delusional "HoMM III was my introduction to the series, so it's the best by default" camp could consider the campaigns, music and overall atmosphere of II to be worse

It so happens that III is simply a better game, but don't let that fact get in the way too much

 

[Archibald]

I remember we used to play all random HoMM2 and if someone would get Knights we would restart game on first turn.

It so happens that III is simply a better game, but don't let that fact get in the way too much

Feels like someone wants to be edgy here with popular "older is better" Codex mentality.

 

[VonVentrue]

It so happens that III is simply a better game, but don't let that fact get in the way too much

"Fact"? It might be a game a bit more rich in content, but HoMM II is a much more coherent package - and definitely superior in some respects (Diablo vs Diablo 2 is a valid comparison, now that I think of it). You can't say that Heroes III is flat out "better" in every possible way while keeping a straight face. If you have your preferences - that's fine, but spare me that miserable smiley, it doesn't make your point any more valid.

Feels like someone wants to be edgy here with popular "older is better" Codex mentality.

Like I give a wooden nickle about what's "edgy" on the Codex or not. I'd have to spam a grand total of 1,425 messages over the course of a mere 5 years for that to happen.

 

[baturinsky]

Features that I like the most and hate the most in HOMM3 are the same. It's transitioning of heroes across the missions in campaign. On the one hand it's nice to keep cool abilities and have a feeling of progression. On the other, it encourages grinding each scenario for spells and permanent character bonuses.