Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Review Hilarious KOTOR 2 review at Tom's Hardware

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,023
Tags: Obsidian Entertainment; Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords

Here is another RPG review written by a guy who dislikes RPGs. Actually, it's written by 2 guys, and sadly, both are stupid. Ok, without further ado, <a href=http://www.tomshardware.com/game/20050226/index.html>the latest retarded KOTOR 2 review</a>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote>Even though the story is great, the way you move through it can be ponderous. Like a "Choose Your Own Adventure" novel with only one sentence on each page, sometimes having to choose every statement that your character says can be tedious. Even for RPG fans more familiar with this level of choice in exposition, you may wish that your characters spoke for themselves just a bit more.
<br>
...
<br>
The number of turn-based games released has been slowly decreasing over the last few years (Nintendo games excepted), so for many gamers the turn-based combat system here may be an obstacle. Based on the same modified version of AD&D 3rd Edition rules as its predecessor, all player characters and NPCs are driven by a statistics based system. People more familiar with traditional rules usage will recognize the statistics sets of Skills, Feats, and Attributes, but instead of learning to make armor or getting lock picking bonuses, players can use acquired XP to beef up on less anachronistic skills like Computer Use and Demolitions. Combat was turn-based for assigning various actions to a queue, but then unpausing the game would run the actions and give the illusion of fighting in real time.
<br>
...
<br>
If you were expecting an RPG after the fashion of Diablo or even Vampire: The Masquerade: Redemption, you will be disappointed. This title is certainly not action oriented; to avoid frustration think strategy instead.
<br>
...
<br>
My mind never got over applying the traditional RPG mechanic of XP (increasing attributes and skills gained through experience) to droids and robots. For instance, why did I have to use XP to increase the assassin droid HK-47's dexterity? Is that something he learned over time?</blockquote>
<br>
There are 7 pages of all kinda idiotic opinions and conclusions, so <a href=http://www.tomshardware.com/game/20050226/index.html>click on that link</a> and enjoy the show!
<br>
<br>
<br>
 

Screaming_life

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
353
Location
On Maggie's Farm... No More
sometimes having to choose every statement that your character says can be tedious.

Wrong!

Even for RPG fans more familiar with this level of choice in exposition, you may wish that your characters spoke for themselves just a bit more.

Nope

If you were expecting an RPG after the fashion of Diablo or even Vampire: The Masquerade: Redemption, you will be disappointed. This title is certainly not action oriented; to avoid frustration think strategy instead.

:lol: Heaven forbid! not action orientated!?

There are 7 pages of all kinda idiotic opinions and conclusions

No thanks, i'll give it a miss!
 

Surlent

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
825
Heeeerrrreeee weeee gooo aaggain

While certainly not perfect - nor without its share of serious game crashing bugs! - the deep story eventually pulled me in until I was enjoying nearly every minute of it. The turn-based combat changed for me from a stumbling block to a powerful strategic tool for layering attacks and coordinating my companions' movements.

10101010101 gg kthnxbye 70mzz u n00b 111
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
I guess that means they are on "the list" now?
 

Mephitus

Novice
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
5
Tom's Hardware said:
People more familiar with traditional rules usage will recognize the statistics sets of Skills, Feats, and Attributes, but instead of learning to make armor or getting lock picking bonuses, players can use acquired XP to beef up on less anachronistic skills like Computer Use and Demolitions.
What did they think the security skill was for, making mildly amusing phallic-shaped party hats?

Honestly, the entire review reeks of stupidity.
 

Dhruin

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Messages
758
I used to read Tom's daily. That really drives home why I haven't been there for nearly a year.
 

NeverwinterKnight

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
154
why do idiots like that even bother writing a review of a game or genre they seem to have no clue about.

Based on the same modified version of AD&D 3rd Edition rules as its predecessor

really? and here i thought it was an adaptation of the sw d20 system. :roll:

the reviewer sounds exactly like the dozens of morons who keep suggesting that kotor should feature "jedi academy-like button pounding combat" rather than the typical rpg-like stat based combat.
 

LlamaGod

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
3,095
Location
Yes
If you were expecting an RPG after the fashion of Diablo or even Vampire: The Masquerade: Redemption, you will be disappointed. This title is certainly not action oriented; to avoid frustration think strategy instead.

STRATEGY? Oh man, I think KOTOR2 might be a bit too much for me. Thinking sucks! letz go paly cs doodz
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
11,449
Location
Behind you.
Mephitus said:
Tom's Hardware said:
People more familiar with traditional rules usage will recognize the statistics sets of Skills, Feats, and Attributes, but instead of learning to make armor or getting lock picking bonuses, players can use acquired XP to beef up on less anachronistic skills like Computer Use and Demolitions.
What did they think the security skill was for, making mildly amusing phallic-shaped party hats?

Honestly, the entire review reeks of stupidity.

The amazing part of that is that this is a sequel. He's had two games with two manuals and two tutorials in the beginning of both to figure that shit out. Hell, doesn't it even tell you what it does when you click on the Security section of the character screen? I can't imagine someone being so incredibly stupid that through the course of all the possible ways it's explained what that skill does, the reviewer managed to miss it.

Also, how the hell are Computer Use and Demolitions "anachronistic"? You have computers and explosives in the game, so how are they out of place?
 

Shagnak

Shagadelic
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
Messages
4,637
Location
Arse of the world, New Zealand
Saint_Proverbius said:
Also, how the hell are Computer Use and Demolitions "anachronistic"? You have computers and explosives in the game, so how are they out of place?

He said less anachronistic, as in - they are more appropriate to the level of technology present in the game. Either you misread, or are you implying that he should have put something like "non- anachronistic", as in completely appropriate. :wink:

But anyway, the review is crap and the reviewer is a twat.
 

Spazmo

Erudite
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
5,752
Location
Monkey Island
NeverwinterKnight said:
the reviewer sounds exactly like the dozens of morons who keep suggesting that kotor should feature "jedi academy-like button pounding combat" rather than the typical rpg-like stat based combat.

Well, actually, I'd say it ought to. It should either all out actiony combat or proper tactical TB. The bastard halfbreed combat system that KOTOR actually has seems to combine the worst elements of both systems, yielding a thoroughly unsatisfying combat experience.
 

NeverwinterKnight

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
154
Spazmo said:
Well, actually, I'd say it ought to. It should either all out actiony combat or proper tactical TB. The bastard halfbreed combat system that KOTOR actually has seems to combine the worst elements of both systems, yielding a thoroughly unsatisfying combat experience.

id say the bloodlines combat is more a bastardized combination, since it makes you have to "twitch game" to target your opponent, then your stats take over. imo, i hated that, especially with the slowdowns because it turned a stat-driven character into a character whose chances of hitting depending on my own twitch gaming reflexes.

kotors combat is fine. its the level of difficulty that makes the combat seem bad. if the combat was actually challenging (more a balance issue than a combat system issue) i dont think youd see as many people comment on it.
 

LlamaGod

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
3,095
Location
Yes
anyways

Even though tha story is great, tha way you move through it can be ponderous hittin that booty. Like a "Choose Yo Own Adventure" novel wit only one sentence on each page, sometizzles hav'n ta choose every statement that yo poser sez can be tedious. Even fo` RPG fans more familiar wit this level of choice in exposition, you may wish tizzy yo motherfucka spoke fo` themselves just a bit more ridin' in mah double R.
 

EEVIAC

Erudite
Joined
Mar 30, 2003
Messages
1,186
Location
Bumfuck, Nowhere
NeverwinterKnight said:
kotors combat is fine. its the level of difficulty that makes the combat seem bad. if the combat was actually challenging (more a balance issue than a combat system issue) i dont think youd see as many people comment on it.

Making bad combat more difficult isn't going to help. Good combat should be fun regardless of difficulty level. Its interactive, so the main goal of combat system design should be to make those interactions enjoyable. This is where KOTOR fails - combat just isn't any fun. It also suffers the problems of any round-based real-time combat system - it doesn't offer the same level of control as a true RT system, or the strategic options of a true turn based system. Its the worst of both worlds really.
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
My God! Tom's Hardware is run by a bunch of filthy, evil larpers! With pink lightsabers!

Anyway: "great" review. :lol:

Is that something he learned over time?
This line should work two-ways.
 
Self-Ejected

dojoteef

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
970
I think you guys, in your fits of laughter from making fun of the review, aren't seeing the importance of it. This is what RPG developers have to face from the general non-RPG playing public. They should be looking at reviews such as these to figure out ways that they might be able to expand their demographic. You have to first figure out what the player base is thinking before you can try to design new mechanisms to lure those potential customers in.

With a larger RPG player base, more innovation can be allowed for. So for all the RPGs that come out catering to these bumbling nitwits, there will be greater enthusiasm from the publishers to allow for different RPGs in the hopes that they might land on a winning combination. As it is, with RPG players making up such a small portion of the gamer demographic publishers tend to want to stick with the tried and true.
 

AlanC9

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
505
EEVIAC said:
Making bad combat more difficult isn't going to help. Good combat should be fun regardless of difficulty level. .

The thing is, this style of combat is actually quite popular. It gets lots of complaints, but games in this style sell. Expect to see more of this.
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
28,318
No. Star Wars games sell. The combat is irrelevant. I'm fairly certain Bioware could make an RPG without combat at all or with entirely automated combat, slap Star Wars on the front and the thing would sell.
 

AlanC9

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
505
It isn't just the KotOR games. NWN sold. Diablo sold. Dungeon Siege sold.

What, you think people on this board have anything to do with mainstream taste? That isn't true for any other aspect of gaming; why should it be true for combat?
 

POOPERSCOOPER

Prophet
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Messages
2,715
Location
California
the starwars license helps it sell but once the kids hear you can customize how they look and stuff they GO OMG FUCVKIN AWESOME MASTERCARD
 

Surlent

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
825
Small correction Alanc, Diablo series' combat doesn't have pause integrated to gameplay. Eeviac is talking about BIO's hybrid system they have used since the BG series.
 

AlanC9

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
505
Point taken, Surlent. But for lack of depth it's about equal.

I generally don't pause NWN anyway -- you kind of have to in KotOR, but that's only because of the console interface.
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
11,449
Location
Behind you.
dojoteef said:
I think you guys, in your fits of laughter from making fun of the review, aren't seeing the importance of it. This is what RPG developers have to face from the general non-RPG playing public. They should be looking at reviews such as these to figure out ways that they might be able to expand their demographic. You have to first figure out what the player base is thinking before you can try to design new mechanisms to lure those potential customers in.

Why make the genre something it's not to lure in customers with different likes and dislikes and risk alienating the ones who already like most of the stuff the dipshit at Tom's didn't like or wasn't smart enough to figure out?
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom