Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[Viata]

OoT is a great game. I don't give a shit if people think it sucks or it's the best game ever made. I play games because I find them fun and OoT gave me lots of fun, simple as that. I prefer MM anyway.

 

[Nutmeg]

I like it too but if I were to redesign it, some of the empty spaces would be heavily abridged and cutscenes and dialogue would be skippable. I would also add more threats everywhere. Player should always be either solving a puzzle, or engaged in frantic, potentially game ending combat or other action activity. The only exception to this would be circumventable towns or safe areas to do character interaction.

Basically make to OoT what Nazo no Murasamejo was to Zelda 1... which would end up taking OoT a fair ways back to Zelda 1, which really was an excellently designed game, especially in its BS Zelda form (added time limit).

 

[Viata]

OoT has a lot of empy space probably because of a total 2d to 3d conversion, so to say. It worked in LttP because it doesn't take 3 hours to reach the other side of the map.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

5th gen probably has a few games like it

All I can think of is Brightis and, if we include Western made games, Soul Reaver, maybe.

How do you consider ICO and those games in the same genre? They have such different focuses it's hard to match them up. ICO is 90% puzzle while Zeldas like 10%

OoT has a lot of empy space probably because of a total 2d to 3d conversion, so to say. It worked in LttP because it doesn't take 3 hours to reach the other side of the map.

Empty space can also serve a purpose for the feel of the world. BOTW is mostly empty space and it feels exciting to explore because it's open and feels vast and comfortable. It sucks in OoT now because it is just a void, but the sense of openness was an important part of the world's personality back then.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

I would say "Okami" is the most decent Zelda-like I've played.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

It is mental how OOT is regarded by tons of people as the best game ever made. Like most early 3D console stuff, it was a step backwards in terms of gameplay and gamecraft as the devs were having to re-learn their trade to some degree, and it's also nowhere near as well rounded or smooth as later games of that ilk either.

Nostalgia & fanboyism at it's peak when OOT gets hailed as "best game ever"

Early 3d was fine. The N64 however had one of the biggest lump of plastic shit for a joypad and blurry, fucked graphics which always seemed to run at 20fps.

 

[caffeine]

fucked graphics which always seemed to run at 20fps.

not always

Btw, yes, this is considered a masterpiece by console peasants.

 

[Machocruz]

OoT was good, a nice little 3D action-adventure. Charming. I played it as an adult on a resale 64. Bought it just for that and Perfect Dark, another banger.

Not the greatest game of all time though.

I'm not a tween or woman, I don't rate things based on fee fees, which is what the mainstream lists strike me as doing. ME2 is an emotional choice, as a RPG it's lesser than other Bioware RPGs that it's ranked higher than. Even Dark Souls is such a choice as it's based on the emotion of wanting to be in tune with the current flavor, although it has more right to be in a top 10 than TLoU. Best-in-genre games like Thief should not be placed amongst fodder. So when I say OoT is nice, I'm speaking of feelings. It felt good like watching a Peanuts special, not remarkable in mechanics or challenge.

Ranking of a varied medium is folly anyway, imo, it's for low-seed persons. Like was said, how you gonna compare a shmup to an RTS to a fighting game to a racing game? But this goes on all the time. A so-called goty is always in the action-adventure-rpg spectrum nowadays, games out of other genres are not realistically considered. Say you had the objectively best 4x strategy game of all time*, or close to it as can be, come out one year, and it's time to hand out accolades at the end of that year. The other candidates are sloppy games in the aforementioned spectrum. I'd bet you 9 times out of 10 that the "best" of the sloppy games beats the GOAT 4x game.

*btw that game happens to exist, SMAC, which I haven't seen in ANY of the mainstream top 10 lists. I rest my case.

 

[Falksi]

OoT was good, a nice little 3D action-adventure. Charming. I played it as an adult on a resale 64. Bought it just for that and Perfect Dark, another banger.

Not the greatest game of all time though.

I'm not a tween or woman, I don't rate things based on fee fees, which is what the mainstream lists strike me as doing. ME2 is an emotional choice, as a RPG it's lesser than other Bioware RPGs that it's ranked higher than. Even Dark Souls is such a choice as it's based on the emotion of wanting to be in tune with the current flavor, although it has more right to be in a top 10 than TLoU. Best-in-genre games like Thief should not be placed amongst fodder. So when I say OoT is nice, I'm speaking of feelings. It felt good like watching a Peanuts special, not remarkable in mechanics or challenge.

Ranking of a varied medium is folly anyway, imo, it's for low-seed persons. Like was said, how you gonna compare a shmup to an RTS to a fighting game to a racing game? But this goes on all the time. A so-called goty is always in the action-adventure-rpg spectrum nowadays, games out of other genres are not realistically considered. Say you had the objectively best 4x strategy game of all time*, or close to it as can be, come out one year, and it's time to hand out accolades at the end of that year. The other candidates are sloppy games in the aforementioned spectrum. I'd bet you 9 times out of 10 that the "best" of the sloppy games beats the GOAT 4x game.

*btw that game happens to exist, SMAC, which I haven't seen in ANY of the mainstream top 10 lists. I rest my case.

That's a great summary.

I get folk rating games highly which had an emotional impact on them, but dickheads like IGN classing themselves as pro-reviewers should be replaying these games with some objectivity to their findings too. It's clear they don't.

When Deus Ex doesn't make the cut of a Top 100 Games list you know something's seriously not right.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

So when I say OoT is nice, I'm speaking of feelings. It felt good like watching a Peanuts special, not remarkable in mechanics or challenge.

I miss when people used to discuss games like this. Why does it have to be TEH BEST GAME EVAH or UTTER GARBAGE DO NOT TOUCH? What happened to "yea, I enjoyed that. Solid game for people who enjoy that genre"

When Deus Ex doesn't make the cut of a Top 100 Games list you know something's seriously not right.

Deus Ex hasn't aged that well. A lot of it's concepts have been improved upon by other immersive sims. You will probably disagree but if you're asking for people to be objective and play through those old games again Deus ex can be rather rough around the edges. It could easily be "It's good, but Human revolution is better" in some areas and not be on the list at all.

 

[Vic]

Why does it have to be TEH BEST GAME EVAH or UTTER GARBAGE DO NOT TOUCH? What happened to "yea, I enjoyed that. Solid game for people who enjoy that genre"

 

[caffeine]

Deus Ex hasn't aged that well. A lot of it's concepts have been improved upon by other immersive sims. You will probably disagree but if you're asking for people to be objective and play through those old games again Deus ex can be rather rough around the edges. It could easily be "It's good, but Human revolution is better" in some areas and not be on the list at all.

HR is popamole and doesn't improve on a single thing on DX except "graphics". What's more, it's not an immersive sim either. Dishonored is also heavily overrated if you're gonna provide that one as an example next. The level design of the first DX is impeccable, as well as its mood and music. And no, I don't have nostalgia for it because I played it for the first time in 2010 I think. None of the nu-imsims are as good as the first two Thief games or Deus Ex, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

 

[Falksi]

So when I say OoT is nice, I'm speaking of feelings. It felt good like watching a Peanuts special, not remarkable in mechanics or challenge.

I miss when people used to discuss games like this. Why does it have to be TEH BEST GAME EVAH or UTTER GARBAGE DO NOT TOUCH? What happened to "yea, I enjoyed that. Solid game for people who enjoy that genre"

When Deus Ex doesn't make the cut of a Top 100 Games list you know something's seriously not right.

Deus Ex hasn't aged that well. A lot of it's concepts have been improved upon by other immersive sims. You will probably disagree but if you're asking for people to be objective and play through those old games again Deus ex can be rather rough around the edges. It could easily be "It's good, but Human revolution is better" in some areas and not be on the list at all.

Deus Ex & OOT are both creaking in the gameplay department, although OOT far more-so. However few games have pretty much predicted the following 20 years of what actually occurred on a political scale in real life.

If that's not worth a place in a gaming top 100 then nothing is. Human Revolution actually does that aspect worse, the vaccine storyline is way more accurate and realistic than the one about augmentation.

Plus 50% of your time on Deus Ex HR is spent playing a fucking hacking mini game if you play it as the developers designed it for maximum experience points.

And Deux Ex's blend of casual and mission-based play, not to mention the level designs themselves, is still a different class to most things around now too.

 

[Machocruz]

That's a great summary.

I get folk rating games highly which had an emotional impact on them, but dickheads like IGN classing themselves as pro-reviewers should be replaying these games with some objectivity to their findings too. It's clear they don't.

When Deus Ex doesn't make the cut of a Top 100 Games list you know something's seriously not right.

Thanks, but I see I got off track. I didn't follow up the question of how do you compare across genre. Suppose it's rhetorical. I maintain these lists are degenerate, I don't think they are in service of anything wholesome. They're not studied enough to be truly informative, all they do is stir people up, bait clicks, etc. I thought these people were inclusive, these lists are exclusive by nature lol. Good to know that action-adventure-rpg mush is better than every racing game that ever game out.

It could easily be "It's good, but Human revolution is better" in some areas and not be on the list at all.

DX is my favorite game, it's still impressive in a number of ways. But it is aged, and rough. I don't like those things. I think HR is a more polished but overall simpler and less interesting game. And if HR is better, it's not better in ways that replace the original as to completely erase it. DX has things the following games don't. It's only replacable if you only have time in your life to play one game named Deus Ex.

But consider there are games as dated or more that still make these lists, which they'll argue is on the basis of impact and legacy or how it was relative to the time it came out. Seems you only get those kinds of apologetics if you're a console-first game, and a couple more points if made by Nintendo.

 

[caffeine]

Deus Ex & OOT are both creaking in the gameplay department, although OOT far more-so. However few games have pretty much predicted the following 20 years of what actually occurred on a political scale in real life.

If that's not worth a place in a gaming top 100 then nothing is. Human Revolution actually does that aspect worse, the vaccine storyline is way more accurate and realistic than the one about augmentation.

Makes sense that journos are now dropping Deus Ex out of the lists since it has become a weapon used by "chuds". Can't attract too much attention to a game that goes counter to current narrative.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Deus Ex & OOT are both creaking in the gameplay department, although OOT far more-so. However few games have pretty much predicted the following 20 years of what actually occurred on a political scale in real life.

Deus Ex is about as predictive as X-files was. It threw so much shit at the wall some of it had to become true. A lot of 90's conspiracy stuff rings true now but it's hard to call it predictive when Art Bell did hours of that shit nightly and most of it turned out false.

DX is my favorite game, it's still impressive in a number of ways. But it is aged, and rough. I don't like those things. I think HR is a more polished but overall simpler and less interesting game. And if HR is better, it's not better in ways that replace the original as to completely erase it. DX has things the following games don't. It's only replacable if you only have time in your life to play one game named Deus Ex.

Nothing replaces it but if you're saying top 100 games you need to have games with either extremely difficult to compete with in gameplay or story or they have to be top of their genre in a way that makes them unique. I would say Shadow of the Colossus is top 100 even though it's aged quite hard. It's such a unique experience and done so well it's hard to see it as anything less. But a game like Half-life, while very enjoyable has such deep flaws in it's intro it's hard to say it's a top 100 game and you can't get a better FPS game. Deus Ex has to compere with Nu Prey and even awful games like Deathloop in it's own genre. And if you're looking for the best cyberpunk game there's a lot of competition now and Human revolution does a lot right and maybe a better overall experience for most people.

 

[Falksi]

Deus Ex & OOT are both creaking in the gameplay department, although OOT far more-so. However few games have pretty much predicted the following 20 years of what actually occurred on a political scale in real life.

Deus Ex is about as predictive as X-files was. It threw so much shit at the wall some of it had to become true. A lot of 90's conspiracy stuff rings true now but it's hard to call it predictive when Art Bell did hours of that shit nightly and most of it turned out false.

Other games which predicted the future as much/well as Deus Ex then? It's frighteningly accurate for a 1990's game, intentional, percentage-based or not.

Ultimately, the game nailed a lot of aspects of how the world would evolve. Ironic that in a thread you made titled "Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race" you are now trying to do just that by depriving a game of the credit it's due based on pure speculation.

 

[Silverfish]

Nothing replaces it but if you're saying top 100 games you need to have games with either extremely difficult to compete with in gameplay or story or they have to be top of their genre in a way that makes them unique. I would say Shadow of the Colossus is top 100 even though it's aged quite hard. It's such a unique experience and done so well it's hard to see it as anything less. But a game like Half-life, while very enjoyable has such deep flaws in it's intro it's hard to say it's a top 100 game and you can't get a better FPS game. Deus Ex has to compere with Nu Prey and even awful games like Deathloop in it's own genre. And if you're looking for the best cyberpunk game there's a lot of competition now and Human revolution does a lot right and maybe a better overall experience for most people.

I agree, but you have to keep in mind that we're just a variation on what Falksi was talking about. Our approach is the same, just pointed in a different direction.

 

[AndyS]

I replayed Deus Ex a couple of years ago, right before I played Human Revolution for the first time. I liked the first one better. Not that HR was crap, it was decent and all, but I just think the original holds up really well. HR forcing you to watch take-down animations and such really irked me. Original is creaky in certain ways, but it was so when I played it the first time shortly after its release.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Other games which predicted the future as much/well as Deus Ex then? It's frighteningly accurate for a 1990's game, intentional, percentage-based or not.

Ultimately, the game nailed a lot of aspects of how the world would evolve. Ironic that in a thread you made titled "Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race" you are now trying to do just that by depriving a game of the credit it's due based on pure speculation.

Why does it being a game matter? I used to fall asleep to Coast to Coast reruns and you would hear the exact same stuff Deus Ex was saying being shilled by book authors all night long. 90's conspiracies coming true isn't very shocking when you had 3 authors a night doing a call in show with a different conspiracy. Deux ex didn't do anything original, it took a popular radio shows content and put it on top of an FPS game. I don't think it deserves any sort of special praise any more than Vampire the masquerade Bloodlines does for doing the same thing in a different way.

 

[Great Deceiver]

IMO 3D action gaming outside of first person shooters is, for the most part, still a mess. You will never get pixel perfect collision tight gameplay like you do in 2D games without a more or less fixed camera, and the "good" work around has been extremely generous i-frames i.e. spam roll or dodge or whatever and look for openings. The bad work around has been flashing parry cues lol

Sekiro avoids both of those pitfalls for the most part (except obvious Mikiri counter indicators). It's a pretty restrictive game with a very narrow focus, but generally it does what it sets out to do very well.

iframe roll spam is the very reason why I got so bored of the Souls formula, From never bothered to fix the root cause of the problem and instead opted to lazily give infinite delay/roll bait attacks to most bosses (and even some regular enemies), which results in passive boring gameplay.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

IMO 3D action gaming outside of first person shooters is, for the most part, still a mess. You will never get pixel perfect collision tight gameplay like you do in 2D games without a more or less fixed camera, and the "good" work around has been extremely generous i-frames i.e. spam roll or dodge or whatever and look for openings. The bad work around has been flashing parry cues lol

Sekiro avoids both of those pitfalls for the most part (except obvious Mikiri counter indicators). It's a pretty restrictive game with a very narrow focus, but generally it does what it sets out to do very well.

iframe roll spam is the very reason why I got so bored of the Souls formula, From never bothered to fix the root cause of the problem and instead opted to lazily give infinite delay/roll bait attacks to most bosses (and even some regular enemies), which results in passive boring gameplay.

 

[Great Deceiver]

You're supposed to jump that grab, not try to quick dodge (the player was spamming quick dodge so it grabbed him despite the hitbox distance). Do you actually play games or do you just post video clips of random retards playing so you think you've made a point?

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

You're supposed to jump that grab, not try to quick dodge (the player was spamming quick dodge so it grabbed him despite the hitbox distance). Do you actually play games or do you just post video clips of retards playing so you think you've made a point?

Yes. There is a problem when enemies teleport to grab you when they clearly missed the attack. It's unacceptable for a game to cheat because you found a way to not get hit and it decided you got hit any way.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Again, you posted another clip of a grab you're supposed to jump, not quick dodge. Am I supposed to laugh at the retards playing on these clips, or the fact that you fall for such easy clickbait? Maybe not enough ALLCAPS in the clip title.

As I said, Sekiro is a restrictive game. You have to play in a very specific way - i.e. parry when you're supposed to, jump when you're supposed to, very rarely dodge when you're supposed to.

You can either like that aspect of it or not, but crying about the game 'cheating' because it punishes you for doing the wrong thing is kind of ridiculous.

Anyway, grabs have longer hitboxes, it's kind of silly visually, but again, if the guy jumped instead of trying to play Sekiro like a Souls game and roll spam out of everything that wouldn't have happened. Of course, that would require two neurons with working synapses and wouldn't lead to a clickbaity throwaway YT video.