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Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

Halfling Rodeo

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963
You can either like that aspect of it or not, but crying about the game 'cheating' because it punishes you for doing the wrong thing is kind of ridiculous.
How is it ridiculous to say if your character physically does not get hit by the enemy's animation you should not be teleported into it and take damage? You claimed Sekiro doesn't suffer from the lack of accuracy in 3D games. Then you go on to defend it and mock me for posting some of the worst examples of it in gaming ever. It doesn't matter if From want you to jump the attack. It matters the player character was not hit by the attack and the game cheated to get them hit by it. It didn't avoid the problem. It has some terrible examples of it and jumping the ape's attack wouldn't have made it any less bullshit when it clearly misses by a huge margin.
 
Joined
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Messages
5,894
You can either like that aspect of it or not, but crying about the game 'cheating' because it punishes you for doing the wrong thing is kind of ridiculous.
How is it ridiculous to say if your character physically does not get hit by the enemy's animation you should not be teleported into it and take damage? You claimed Sekiro doesn't suffer from the lack of accuracy in 3D games. Then you go on to defend it and mock me for posting some of the worst examples of it in gaming ever. It doesn't matter if From want you to jump the attack. It matters the player character was not hit by the attack and the game cheated to get them hit by it. It didn't avoid the problem. It has some terrible examples of it and jumping the ape's attack wouldn't have made it any less bullshit when it clearly misses by a huge margin.
I didn't claim Sekiro doesn't suffer from lack of accuracy (compared to pixel collision precision in 2d games, which was the original comparison) or wonky hitboxes sometimes - I wrote it "avoids both of the pitfalls" Nutmeg was referring to, mainly iframe roll spam and flashing parry cues and I even qualified it with for the most part.

Your reading comprehension issue aside though, my point still stands - how can you say 'it doesn't matter what the developer wants you to do', especially if something is hardcoded to punish the very thing the developer doesn't want the player to do (i.e. quick dodge spamming an attack that you're supposed to jump over), and that when the idiot who tries to put the square peg in the round hole gets hit he's being cheated by the game?

Are you trolling or what?
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
You can either like that aspect of it or not, but crying about the game 'cheating' because it punishes you for doing the wrong thing is kind of ridiculous.
How is it ridiculous to say if your character physically does not get hit by the enemy's animation you should not be teleported into it and take damage? You claimed Sekiro doesn't suffer from the lack of accuracy in 3D games. Then you go on to defend it and mock me for posting some of the worst examples of it in gaming ever. It doesn't matter if From want you to jump the attack. It matters the player character was not hit by the attack and the game cheated to get them hit by it. It didn't avoid the problem. It has some terrible examples of it and jumping the ape's attack wouldn't have made it any less bullshit when it clearly misses by a huge margin.
I didn't claim Sekiro doesn't suffer from lack of accuracy or wonky hitboxes sometimes - I wrote it "avoids both of the pitfalls" Nutmeg was referring to, mainly iframe roll spam and flashing parry cues and I even qualified it with for the most part.

Your reading comprehension issue aside though, my point still stands - how can you say 'it doesn't matter what the developer wants you to do', especially if something is hardcoded to punish the very thing the developer doesn't want the player to do (i.e. quick dodge spamming an attack that you're supposed to jump over), and that when the idiot who tries to put the square peg in the round hole gets hit he's being cheated by the game?

Are you trolling me or what?
Nutmeg lists 2 problems. The first is bad hit detection and the second is using flashing lights to signal parrying.

If the developer wants to make an attack only dodgeable in a single way they need to make it so that's the only way to dodge the animation. From does an extremely poor job is saying "you have to jump this" and cheats the player out of a natural reaction and fair response. Do you know why I said fuck Sekiro I'm not playing this pile of shit? This exact problem. If I dodge an ogre's hand reaching for me I expect for it's hand not to teleport me into it. If I dodge it by jumping, rolling or physically being some where else in some other way I expect the game to see I didn't get hit and treat it as such. From also seems to agree with me more than you since they patched that grab hit box and it used to be even worse than it is now. But it's still unacceptable to cheat the player and damage them because they found an alternative solution that should work in any reasonably designed game. If they want the hit box to be bigger than the fist they can add a particle effect. Other wise it's bullshit and you're retarded for defending it.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
Do you actually play games or do you just post video clips of random retards playing so you think you've made a point?

I said fuck Sekiro I'm not playing this pile of shit

QED

Honestly the level of crying is hilarious. You're just a whiny bitch who couldn't get good.
From had 6 games to fix broken grab hit boxes and refused. Why wouldn't I just go play a better game when they constantly repeat the same problems? But then why wouldn't they when their fanbase will blindly defend some of the worst designed hit boxes in gaming history? It's not "gitting gud" to expect a game not to damage you when you don't get hit by the attack animation. Imagine a shoot 'em up that caused you to take damage when you dodged all the bullets on screen. Or a fighting game where you got hit from ducking under a fireball that goes totally over your head. Do you consider that acceptable too?
 
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Nutmeg lists 2 problems. The first is bad hit detection and the second is using flashing lights to signal parrying.
No he didn't, you fucking lemming. He listed one problem:

"IMO 3D action gaming outside of first person shooters is, for the most part, still a mess. You will never get pixel perfect collision tight gameplay like you do in 2D games without a more or less fixed camera, and the "good" work around has been extremely generous i-frames i.e. spam roll or dodge or whatever and look for openings. The bad work around has been flashing parry cues lol"

The 2 pitfalls I referred to are the shoddy workarounds that he identifies to rectify this problem - i.e. "generous i-frames" and "flashing parry cues"

You read and argue about as well as you play games.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Imagine a shoot 'em up that caused you to take damage when you dodged all the bullets on screen. Or a fighting game where you got hit from ducking under a fireball that goes totally over your head. Do you consider that acceptable too?
I can guarantee you you wouldn't last a minute in a shmup or a single round against a competent fighting game player before crying about the game being broken or the developer cheating you out or your choccy milk being too hot or whatever.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
So ignoring the From Drone..

The importance of demo discs and how much they impacted smaller titles cannot be over stated. They were a massive part of the PS1's success and how wide it's library was for most people. Demos are basically gone now and we discover less games because of it. I remember buying a PS1 because I liked playing Tekken 2's demo at a friend's house so much. Demo discs and how many games got huge sale figures from them are barely mentioned when talking gaming history. Everyone talks about MGS but forgets MGS2's demo made a niche mecha game (ZOE) sell extremely well for it's genre and limited length.
 

Falksi

Arcane
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Other games which predicted the future as much/well as Deus Ex then? It's frighteningly accurate for a 1990's game, intentional, percentage-based or not.

Ultimately, the game nailed a lot of aspects of how the world would evolve. Ironic that in a thread you made titled "Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race" you are now trying to do just that by depriving a game of the credit it's due based on pure speculation.
Why does it being a game matter? I used to fall asleep to Coast to Coast reruns and you would hear the exact same stuff Deus Ex was saying being shilled by book authors all night long. 90's conspiracies coming true isn't very shocking when you had 3 authors a night doing a call in show with a different conspiracy. Deux ex didn't do anything original, it took a popular radio shows content and put it on top of an FPS game. I don't think it deserves any sort of special praise any more than Vampire the masquerade Bloodlines does for doing the same thing in a different way.
Because we're talking about it in the context of being featured amongst the best games ever. :deathclaw:
 

Zlaja

Arcane
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Messages
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Swedex
ME2 is an emotional choice, as a RPG it's lesser than other Bioware RPGs that it's ranked higher than

Even ME3 is better (when you include all DLC). Especially in the gameplay department. All ME2 had going for it was a really vast companion pool (12 of them).

Deus Ex hasn't aged that well. A lot of it's concepts have been improved upon by other immersive sims

Not in terms of scope and playstyle choice.

Deux ex didn't do anything original, it took a popular radio shows content and put it on top of an FPS game. I don't think it deserves any sort of special praise any more than Vampire the masquerade Bloodlines does for doing the same thing in a different way

Most people don't give Deus Ex special praise because of a few future scenarios done well. It's just a cherry-on-top sort of thing. Modern day game narratives are so drab in comparison.
 

Hellraiser

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Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
There's one simple way in which the inferiority of Deus Ex: HR to the original can be established within the first 5 minutes of the damn game, you can't pick up the vast majority of boxes and knickknacks scattered in the levels, the interactivity is insanely declined. This is even before you notice the level design is worse (It's still better than most games, but not really comparable to the original game), that combining lockpicking and electronics and hacking (on top of adding a tedious mini game, a decline from the no bullshit few seconds animation and done hacking/lockpicking) was a bad idea limiting paths/player choice, or that you can easily get all augmentations and there are no "hard" choices regarding upgrading skills, augmentations or weapon mods like Deus Ex had since the game showers you with them and by the end of the game everybody gets everything easily.

Even ME3 is better (when you include all DLC).

Could be the problem, but as I mentioned in the games finished last year topic regarding my replay of the ME trilogy, ME3 bullet sponges pissed me off so much my replay of it is on hold for 4 months now, dropped it right after Palaven's moon so barely even into the game. The combat is simply tedious, every fucking encounter is like that starting from the first firefight the game has on Earth, and on average it is far worse than even the most annoying spongy encounters in ME1 were, and this was already after reducing the difficulty 2 or 3 times. ME2 by contrast seemed like the enemies were not too spongy, dropping after 5-10 seconds of focused fire/ability combos, and the main concern was Shepard's fragility, making for me the combat the most enjoyable out of the entire trilogy. Also I fucking loathe the color palette/color filter choice shitwashing everything in blue and red, who the fuck thought that looked good?
 
Last edited:

Zlaja

Arcane
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Messages
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Swedex
ME3 bullet sponges pissed me off so much my replay of it is on hold for 4 months now, dropped it right after Palaven's moon

The whole bullet sponge thing gets better later on when you aquire better weapons/more uppgrades. It can indeed be annoying early on, especially if you play some of the DLC content earlier than you really should.

main concern was Shepard's fragility

The best way to learn just how fragile Shepard can get is to play the Citadel DLC in ME3. Holy fuck, some of that shit was retarded. The fight against my Vanguard clone took me like a dozen tries on Hardcore difficulty.:mad:
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
Other games which predicted the future as much/well as Deus Ex then? It's frighteningly accurate for a 1990's game, intentional, percentage-based or not.

Ultimately, the game nailed a lot of aspects of how the world would evolve. Ironic that in a thread you made titled "Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race" you are now trying to do just that by depriving a game of the credit it's due based on pure speculation.
Why does it being a game matter? I used to fall asleep to Coast to Coast reruns and you would hear the exact same stuff Deus Ex was saying being shilled by book authors all night long. 90's conspiracies coming true isn't very shocking when you had 3 authors a night doing a call in show with a different conspiracy. Deux ex didn't do anything original, it took a popular radio shows content and put it on top of an FPS game. I don't think it deserves any sort of special praise any more than Vampire the masquerade Bloodlines does for doing the same thing in a different way.
Because we're talking about it in the context of being featured amongst the best games ever. :deathclaw:
How does that matter? Do I have to lower my expectations on social commentary and conspiracy media because it's a video game? That's insulting to you and the game it's self. A bad movie with accurate social commentary is no better than a good movie with inaccurate commentary. The overall experience is what matters and the conspiracy experience is handled far better in other mediums and that has to be taken into account in the best games ever. For it to be a best game it has to be exceptional among all media not just games if it's putting so much weight on something other media also does.
Most people don't give Deus Ex special praise because of a few future scenarios done well. It's just a cherry-on-top sort of thing. Modern day game narratives are so drab in comparison.
These two post contradict each other.

I agree modern narratives aren't good. They're bland and lack the guts to bite into some real content. GTA used to be really quite on the ball, heavy racist and sexist in a way that made people laugh, but also thought provoking to a degree. If we're comparing narratives on predicting the future in video games and using that as a tent pole for why X game is top 100, then GTA is a heavy contender for that same position. The radio stations were really on the nose.
 

Falksi

Arcane
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Messages
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Nottingham
Other games which predicted the future as much/well as Deus Ex then? It's frighteningly accurate for a 1990's game, intentional, percentage-based or not.

Ultimately, the game nailed a lot of aspects of how the world would evolve. Ironic that in a thread you made titled "Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race" you are now trying to do just that by depriving a game of the credit it's due based on pure speculation.
Why does it being a game matter? I used to fall asleep to Coast to Coast reruns and you would hear the exact same stuff Deus Ex was saying being shilled by book authors all night long. 90's conspiracies coming true isn't very shocking when you had 3 authors a night doing a call in show with a different conspiracy. Deux ex didn't do anything original, it took a popular radio shows content and put it on top of an FPS game. I don't think it deserves any sort of special praise any more than Vampire the masquerade Bloodlines does for doing the same thing in a different way.
Because we're talking about it in the context of being featured amongst the best games ever. :deathclaw:
How does that matter? Do I have to lower my expectations on social commentary and conspiracy media because it's a video game? That's insulting to you and the game it's self. A bad movie with accurate social commentary is no better than a good movie with inaccurate commentary. The overall experience is what matters and the conspiracy experience is handled far better in other mediums and that has to be taken into account in the best games ever. For it to be a best game it has to be exceptional among all media not just games if it's putting so much weight on something other media also does.
Most people don't give Deus Ex special praise because of a few future scenarios done well. It's just a cherry-on-top sort of thing. Modern day game narratives are so drab in comparison.
These two post contradict each other.

I agree modern narratives aren't good. They're bland and lack the guts to bite into some real content. GTA used to be really quite on the ball, heavy racist and sexist in a way that made people laugh, but also thought provoking to a degree. If we're comparing narratives on predicting the future in video games and using that as a tent pole for why X game is top 100, then GTA is a heavy contender for that same position. The radio stations were really on the nose.
Wow, you are super retarded beyond belief, the last part of your signature does you proud.

So a game which does something far better than any other game has ever done shouldn't be recognized for that in a discussion about games (which obviously includes stand out elements in gaming) because other mediums handle those elements better?

OK Spiderman.

That's like saying Witcher 3 graphics should be classed as shit because visually because every film ever made since the 70's looks more lifelike lol.

You are indeed very retarded, and no I can't take you seriously.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
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Messages
963
So a game which does something far better than any other game has ever done shouldn't be recognized for that in a discussion about games (which obviously includes stand out elements in gaming) because other mediums handle those elements better?
Correct. When judging a STORY you should compare it to other STORIES. Which is different from comparing graphics. If you're a midwit and think video game writing is good then you can say BEST GAME EVER because of the writing. But any one with the slightest bit of life experience will laugh at you when you say a game is good because it threw shit at the wall and some of it came true.
 

Silverfish

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
3,242
Demos are basically gone now and we discover less games because of it.

Not only demos, but a few magazines (Electronic Gaming Monthly and the unofficial Playstation Magazine spring to mind) occasionally shipped with dvds that had no playable demos, but were loaded with trailers and gameplay footage from tradeshows or what have you. As someone who wasn't terminally online at that point, they were a treasure trove of info on new stuff.

I apologize for derailing the Deus Ex thread.
 

Halfling Rodeo

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Not only demos, but a few magazines (Electronic Gaming Monthly and the unofficial Playstation Magazine spring to mind) occasionally shipped with dvds that had no playable demos, but were loaded with trailers and gameplay footage from tradeshows or what have you. As someone who wasn't terminally online at that point, they were a treasure trove of info on new stuff.
You can check youtube trailer channels like game trailers but there's no filter to them any more and so much of it is garbage DLC trailers any way. Modern everything lacks a proper filter, so we see DLC for flopped games like AEW Fight forever, Alan Wake being added to the latest skinner box horror patch for Dead by daylight and complete garbage like Electrician Sim. There's no incentive to curate your content when you have to constantly compete with the 12 other things listed on the same page as you.
 

Machocruz

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Hyperborea
And if you're looking for the best cyberpunk game there's a lot of competition now and Human revolution does a lot right and maybe a better overall experience for most people.
I've heard that Mankind Divided is stronger in the immersive-sim department than HR, in having more choices or ways to do things. If so, and everything else being equal, that would be the better alternative. Btw, I'm probably being more literal minded than what you meant, but the idea of someone looking for THE best one thing in any genre, of any medium...well I wish them good luck with that.

As far as demos, I bought more games between the time of PS1 demo discs and whenever PC game demos stopped being common than I ever had or have since. I was regularly on Fileplanet trying games out. The current alternatives aren't as good imo. Not having a healthy demo scene is a net negative.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
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Messages
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I've heard that Mankind Divided is stronger in the immersive-sim department than HR, in having more choices or ways to do things. If so, and everything else being equal, that would be the better alternative.
I thought HR was better but MD has such a huge problem with it's core concept it broke immersion for me right out the gates. The game expects you to feel sorry for the Augs after they all went postal and tried to kill everyone else. There is zero logic in not keeping all Augs separate from non-Augs once it was proven they had a murder switch in them. So you have this extremely liberal story about Augs being oppressed and they dindu nuffin after attempting mass genocide. And Jenson barely faces any real push back for being an Aug so it's not even that bad for them. It ultimately breaks any immersion I had in the game because it's so illogical for the original story to continue the way it did. It's obvious Augs are a stand in for ethnic groups in America but it's so poorly written it mirrors reality to the point of it being almost a parody.

File planet was awesome. Are the planet sites still up? I used to read Half-life one religiously and Diablo quite often too.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
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Oct 21, 2019
Messages
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I'm more butthurt that 95% of 'dexers doesn't give Prelude to Darkness, second best RPG ever released after Arcanum, a try because "it looks old and janky and nobody else plays it so who cares xd let's play starfield!"
It just doesn't work though. Well, yeah, wasn't trying my best, rather spent like 5 minutes or so but still it looked hopeless.
 

Konjad

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I'm more butthurt that 95% of 'dexers doesn't give Prelude to Darkness, second best RPG ever released after Arcanum, a try because "it looks old and janky and nobody else plays it so who cares xd let's play starfield!"
It just doesn't work though. Well, yeah, wasn't trying my best, rather spent like 5 minutes or so but still it looked hopeless.
New 2022/2023 versions?
 

Louis_Cypher

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Jan 1, 2016
Messages
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Just wanted to mention a phenomena, that whenever I see people with big games collection rooms on YouTube, it's almost always very very console oriented. I don't know if this guy has any PC games in his world record one, because they don't seem to show any, but again the person is wearing a console shirt and in other videos people have lots of consoles under a TV:

 

Falksi

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Just wanted to mention a phenomena, that whenever I see people with big games collection rooms on YouTube, it's almost always very very console oriented. I don't know if this guy has any PC games in his world record one, because they don't seem to show any, but again the person is wearing a console shirt and in other videos people have lots of consoles under a TV:


His completed collections are pretty much all the mainstream consoles too...

  • Complete North American NES Collection
  • Complete North American SNES Collection
  • Complete Nintendo 64DD Collection
  • Complete North American Gamecube Collection
  • Complete North American Wii Collection
  • Complete North American Wii U Collection
  • Complete North American Gameboy Collection
  • Complete North American Gameboy Color Collection
  • Complete North American Gameboy Advance Collection
  • Complete Virtual Boy Collection
  • Complete North American Game Gear Collection
  • Complete North American Sega Genesis Collection
  • Complete North American Sega CD Collection
  • Complete North American Sega 32X Collection
  • Complete North American Sega Saturn Collection
  • Complete North American Dreamcast Collection
  • Complete North American Sega Pico Collection
  • Complete North American Neo Geo Pocket Collection
  • Complete North American Atari Jaguar Collection
  • Complete North American Playstation 2 Collection
  • Complete North American Playstation 3 Collection
  • Complete North American Playstation Portable Collection
  • Complete North American Original Xbox Collection
  • Complete North American Xbox 360 Collection

https://game-collecting.fandom.com/wiki/Antonio_Romero_Monteiro

....apart from the Jaguar that reads like a very normie list of consoles. No Master System, Amiga, C64 etc. suggests he's someone who's not gonna buy much PC stuff to me.
 

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