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Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,031
Location
Nottingham

I don't mean to say you didn't have the childhood you did, because you know better about that than I do. But this idea that arcades are some holy mecca of games every kid wished to be in and it's the total legit way to play arcade games just isn't true. I have fond memories of generic shoot 'em ups at random take aways we only visited once or playing Willow at an in door market. Arcade machines were more common out in the wild than they were in actual arcades.
Nice dramatization of what I said. How did you get "holy mecca of games every kid wished to be in" or it's "the" way from me saying I have fond memories and that all kinds of people played arcade games? All kinds of people did, contrary to the notion that some people have the only nerds played video games. I did the big arcade thing, which were common in midwest America, and the pizza place thing, mostly the former so that's mainly what I spoke on, but you're focused on the type of building for some reason as if we're not talking about arcade games in general. The vast majority didn't have consoles or gaming computers either, or played video games for that matter. Let's stick to what's relevant to the subject. Maybe in Appalachia they can't afford a quarter to play a game, but that's not the vast majority either.
The perception of arcades is being heavily revised. Most people I knew didn't go to arcades and did own a home console. It's a weirdly American thing to have this nerd/jock divide when I used to kick the ass of the local football team at Mortal Kombat. There's a difference between an arcade machine in a chip shop and chuck-e-cheese which is a very American thing and some how bled into European gaming culture.
No it's not, you're just putting your perception of arcades as the norm, which it isn't.

Here's a UK arcade early 80's, pretty packed out and it was very often...

0ook3X2.jpg


Just because your area wasn't doesn't mean others weren't. You could barely get on machines in places like Skegness and Blackpool during peak seasons. My mates dad ran a roller disco with an arcade section too, and he's always said it was his single most profitable part of the business.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
25,881
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
I was thinking the other day about which PC studios should probably be talked about with the same reverance that console gamers give to say Capcom and Konami. For me, a lot of my favorite experiences were from Interplay and MicroProse - those would be my PC choice for which names should have the same recognition. Nintendo-worship MSM journalists of course don't really have any consciousness of those names, but PC gamers remember them well - for X-COM, System Shock, Theme Park, Syndicate, Deus Ex, Civilization, Command & Conquer, Dark Forces, X-Wing, etc, etc:

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3vYF0wJ.jpg


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Plus a few that are still around in a big way, but fallen from PC grace, either no longer developing games, no longer develop *good* games, barely develop games, were forced to work entirely on COD, were bought out by predatory publishers like EA, or became exclusively publishers:

xhaXHz7.png


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CVXvBKw.png
Dude

id-software.jpg
 

Louis_Cypher

Arcane
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Messages
1,993
I was thinking the other day about which PC studios should probably be talked about with the same reverance that console gamers give to say Capcom and Konami. For me, a lot of my favorite experiences were from Interplay and MicroProse - those would be my PC choice for which names should have the same recognition. Nintendo-worship MSM journalists of course don't really have any consciousness of those names, but PC gamers remember them well - for X-COM, System Shock, Theme Park, Syndicate, Deus Ex, Civilization, Command & Conquer, Dark Forces, X-Wing, etc, etc:
Dude
At one point I had id on there, but they still actually make good games, so I didn't wanna put them in the latter catagory :)

Perhaps the only classic PC dev that still does what it did well, although I really disliked what they tried to do with Rage.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963

I don't mean to say you didn't have the childhood you did, because you know better about that than I do. But this idea that arcades are some holy mecca of games every kid wished to be in and it's the total legit way to play arcade games just isn't true. I have fond memories of generic shoot 'em ups at random take aways we only visited once or playing Willow at an in door market. Arcade machines were more common out in the wild than they were in actual arcades.
Nice dramatization of what I said. How did you get "holy mecca of games every kid wished to be in" or it's "the" way from me saying I have fond memories and that all kinds of people played arcade games? All kinds of people did, contrary to the notion that some people have the only nerds played video games. I did the big arcade thing, which were common in midwest America, and the pizza place thing, mostly the former so that's mainly what I spoke on, but you're focused on the type of building for some reason as if we're not talking about arcade games in general. The vast majority didn't have consoles or gaming computers either, or played video games for that matter. Let's stick to what's relevant to the subject. Maybe in Appalachia they can't afford a quarter to play a game, but that's not the vast majority either.
The perception of arcades is being heavily revised. Most people I knew didn't go to arcades and did own a home console. It's a weirdly American thing to have this nerd/jock divide when I used to kick the ass of the local football team at Mortal Kombat. There's a difference between an arcade machine in a chip shop and chuck-e-cheese which is a very American thing and some how bled into European gaming culture.
No it's not, you're just putting your perception of arcades as the norm, which it isn't.

Here's a UK arcade early 80's, pretty packed out and it was very often...

0ook3X2.jpg


Just because your area wasn't doesn't mean others weren't. You could barely get on machines in places like Skegness and Blackpool during peak seasons. My mates dad ran a roller disco with an arcade section too, and he's always said it was his single most profitable part of the business.
Going on holiday would be an exception yes. But look at your picture you daft twat. About half of those machines are fruit machines. There's very few actual arcade machines pictured. Exactly like I suggested and nothing like the American meme.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,031
Location
Nottingham

I don't mean to say you didn't have the childhood you did, because you know better about that than I do. But this idea that arcades are some holy mecca of games every kid wished to be in and it's the total legit way to play arcade games just isn't true. I have fond memories of generic shoot 'em ups at random take aways we only visited once or playing Willow at an in door market. Arcade machines were more common out in the wild than they were in actual arcades.
Nice dramatization of what I said. How did you get "holy mecca of games every kid wished to be in" or it's "the" way from me saying I have fond memories and that all kinds of people played arcade games? All kinds of people did, contrary to the notion that some people have the only nerds played video games. I did the big arcade thing, which were common in midwest America, and the pizza place thing, mostly the former so that's mainly what I spoke on, but you're focused on the type of building for some reason as if we're not talking about arcade games in general. The vast majority didn't have consoles or gaming computers either, or played video games for that matter. Let's stick to what's relevant to the subject. Maybe in Appalachia they can't afford a quarter to play a game, but that's not the vast majority either.
The perception of arcades is being heavily revised. Most people I knew didn't go to arcades and did own a home console. It's a weirdly American thing to have this nerd/jock divide when I used to kick the ass of the local football team at Mortal Kombat. There's a difference between an arcade machine in a chip shop and chuck-e-cheese which is a very American thing and some how bled into European gaming culture.
No it's not, you're just putting your perception of arcades as the norm, which it isn't.

Here's a UK arcade early 80's, pretty packed out and it was very often...

0ook3X2.jpg


Just because your area wasn't doesn't mean others weren't. You could barely get on machines in places like Skegness and Blackpool during peak seasons. My mates dad ran a roller disco with an arcade section too, and he's always said it was his single most profitable part of the business.
Going on holiday would be an exception yes. But look at your picture you daft twat. About half of those machines are fruit machines. There's very few actual arcade machines pictured. Exactly like I suggested and nothing like the American meme.
They went hand in hand. Most arcades were known as "cashades" because half of the building had slots in. You're talking like that's an exception, not the rule.

Also, it's not just holidays, those places were like that most the year round. A mates uncle owned a B&B in Blackpool and it was booked up most of the year bar the odd week or two. I used to stay there regularly and the arcades were always full.

Honestly, from your statement about arcades containing slots being irregular I'm wondering if you have ever actually been to one.
 

Morpheus Kitami

Liturgist
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,697
I was thinking the other day about which PC studios should probably be talked about with the same reverance that console gamers give to say Capcom and Konami. For me, a lot of my favorite experiences were from Interplay and MicroProse - those would be my PC choice for which names should have the same recognition. Nintendo-worship MSM journalists of course don't really have any consciousness of those names, but PC gamers remember them well - for X-COM, System Shock, Theme Park, Syndicate, Deus Ex, Civilization, Command & Conquer, Dark Forces, X-Wing, etc, etc:
Apogee and Epic deserve some mention in addition to Id, because those three were the company that took the one thing consoles were doing better at the time, side-scrolling platformers, and made something just as good on PC. I would put that at the time when PC domination truly began, and outside of the odd exclusive there wasn't really anything consoles were doing that PC wasn't doing just as well.
Arcades being unique pieces of hardware was interesting and probably the only thing historically important. You can get a damn near perfect home experience by playing arcade games with a fight stick on mame these days. But there's no replacement for playing time crisis or house of the dead. It just doesn't exist in the same way. Maybe VR can offer something similar but it's different.
No you can't. I haven't even been to that many arcades and even I know that. There are hundreds of machines with something or another you can't quite replicate even with thousands of dollars of peripherals, to say nothing of how the controls on one machine might be a lot better or a lot worse than your joystick, fight stick or keyboard.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
Honestly, from your statement about arcades containing slots being irregular I'm wondering if you have ever actually been to one.
I have no idea what you're even trying to say here.
No you can't. I haven't even been to that many arcades and even I know that. There are hundreds of machines with something or another you can't quite replicate even with thousands of dollars of peripherals, to say nothing of how the controls on one machine might be a lot better or a lot worse than your joystick, fight stick or keyboard.
Unique machines can't be replicated but I assure you a lot of arcade machines were in poor quality too. Your home joystick is likely in better condition than 90% of the arcade machines you'd find in the wild.
 

Morpheus Kitami

Liturgist
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,697
I have no idea what you're even trying to say here.
He's saying that because you think slots in an arcade is atypical that you haven't been to an arcade.
Unique machines can't be replicated but I assure you a lot of arcade machines were in poor quality too. Your home joystick is likely in better condition than 90% of the arcade machines you'd find in the wild.
Yeah, that's part of what I said. Your reading comprehension is quite poor. Which, come to think of it, isn't surprising from someone who thinks that learning to read a language isn't important.
 

AndyS

Augur
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
587
Neither classic arcade or PC games give them warm fuzzies. Hard to get fee fees from games that expect you to be competent or get filtered.

I have nothing but fond memories of the arcades, the games were pure stimulation and survival. Competition was fierce, iron sharpened iron, and if you didn't master your craft, your machine got passed by. I think consoles don't get off the ground if they don't offer "the arcade at home," that's how addicting arcade games were. There is a sort of revisionism now that suggests they were too hard or unfair and were thus niche type games destined to die out. Fake news. All kinds of people flocked to arcades. Of course there were levels to it like there is with anything else, let's not pretend punishing shmups were the norm. There were NES games more frustrating than anything in arcades. And there's crap in every field. Good arcade games provide moment-to-moment satisfaction, not being able to get far isn't a "flaw" like it is in padded-out games. I've not yet completed a Metal Slug in 3 credits or less, but still among the most fun I've ever had with games.
I can't speak to what was going on elsewhere, but in the U.S. the arcade was generally considered the core of video gaming through the early 90s or so. The whole point of consoles was to replicate the arcade experience at home. That's why everyone flipped their shit about the Atari 2600 version of Pac-Man: the idiots worked themselves into thinking the rapidly aging 2600 would be able to replicate the arcade and it didn't even come close. The 16-bit consoles got a lot of their hype from being able to come closer to what was in arcades at the time than anything before them. No one was saying "I can't wait to play original games!" They wanted to play a reasonably accurate version of Golden Axe on their couch.

As far as arcade games being quarter munchers, it's true to some extent but anyone who applies themselves will find that you really can get better at well-designed arcade games. I'm not especially good at them, but my high scores consistently rise the more I play BurgerTime or Defender. They just require really good pattern-recognition skills and reflexes that a lot of game journalists/historians don't have at all.
 

AndyS

Augur
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
587
I was thinking the other day about which PC studios should probably be talked about with the same reverance that console gamers give to say Capcom and Konami. For me, a lot of my favorite experiences were from Interplay and MicroProse - those would be my PC choice for which names should have the same recognition. Nintendo-worship MSM journalists of course don't really have any consciousness of those names, but PC gamers remember them well - for X-COM, System Shock, Theme Park, Syndicate, Deus Ex, Civilization, Command & Conquer, Dark Forces, X-Wing, etc, etc:
There were publishers from the 80s that I'm still fond of and find their games quite replayable. Broderbund, Synapse, the Infocom text adventures, Sierra and Dynamix, Epyx, Big Five, Datamost, EA's early pre-console output. A lot of this stuff even GOG won't pick up and sell (and the DOS versions were usually crap anyway).
 

Louis_Cypher

Arcane
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Messages
1,993
Falksi was saying two of the formative genres of gaming, SHMUPs and Beat-em-Ups were completely missing from that IGN list...

aRJhnwX.png


...I think also journo types have forgotton that Space Sims were once a core genre of PC gaming. The same goes for the RTS.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
He's saying that because you think slots in an arcade is atypical that you haven't been to an arcade.
But I said the complete opposite to that. The majority of UK arcades were basically casinos with a handful of computer games. The only places to have what Americans describe as an arcade like in Terminator 2 were tourist traps and traveling fun fairs. It's like saying "It's normal for everyone to have a beach they can walk to". It is for some but that's not the majority experience.


No one was saying "I can't wait to play original games!" They wanted to play a reasonably accurate version of Golden Axe on their couch.
But they did? Sonic wasn't in the arcades (they later added it to the arcades with multi select machines) and it sold consoles like hot cakes. Donkey Kong Country and Mario world were bigger than Killer instinct despite being an arcade port. There was a big market for arcade ports, but as the console generation went on arcade ports took a back seat to console only titles. The Mega Drive's early promotion was all about arcade ports and sports games, but the pack in games were Revenge of Shinobi, Streets of rage and Sonic along side Golden axe. Not denying arcade ports sold consoles, but a lot of people were saying I can't wait to play Sonic 2, Streets of rage 2 or Ecco the dolphin. It's all arcade style games, but they're console originals.
 

Louis_Cypher

Arcane
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Messages
1,993
King Crispy, can we retitle this thread to "Halfling Rodeo's Retarded Attempt to Revise Video Game History?"
weren't you guys on the same side? I stopped reading 10 pages ago, wonder what happened...
I think it's this post that did it for a bunch of people lol:

tFN0Vw5.png


I don't care, everyone is entitled to like what they like. However, I think there is an impression among journalists that maybe old PC is unplayable. It's partly to do with the compatability issues maybe, or the fact that so much PC gaming is abandonware that you have to get running yourself? Maybe people recall old ball-mouse issues, etc.
 

Silverfish

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
3,928
There are hundreds of machines with something or another you can't quite replicate even with thousands of dollars of peripherals

I became violently ill when a friend asked me if I wanted to play an emulated version of Star Wars Trilogy Arcade that, obviously, didn't have the X-Wing cockpit. It was my 9/11.

I have no idea what you're even trying to say here.

Apparently Euros have crippling gambling problems and can't play Q*bert without hitting the slots first. Watching Ocean's Eleven must be like those "porn with the sex cut out" videos for them.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
King Crispy, can we retitle this thread to "Halfling Rodeo's Retarded Attempt to Revise Video Game History?"
weren't you guys on the same side? I stopped reading 10 pages ago, wonder what happened...
I think it's this post that did it for a bunch of people lol:

tFN0Vw5.png


I don't care, everyone is entitled to like what they like. However, I think there is an impression among journalists that maybe old PC is unplayable. It's partly to do with the compatability issues maybe, or the fact that so much PC gaming is abandonware that you have to get running yourself? Maybe people recall old ball-mouse issues, etc.
Would you like me to provide an example of what I mean? Command and conquer was great when it came out. Playing it today can be frustrating because the resolution is so small. You can barely see anything and that's important in an RTS. I can still play Mario world and not feel like the resolution is making the experience less than it could be. I can't play CnC and not feel like it's being hamstrung by it's age/limitations. How many great CRPGs have really awkward inventory management that drag the game down? There's lots of ways games have evolve for the better and going back to older stuff can be less enjoyable when you're wrestling with a shit system rightfully forgotten.
 

Vic

Savant
Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Bethestard
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
5,760
Location
[REDACTED]
I played C&C 1 last year, the resolution (320x200) is slightly larger than SNES games (256x240)

all old games have a low resolution because they were designed for CRT displays which don't use pixels to display the game on screen. If you wanna play old games you have to zoom them in, many prefer to play them on 4k displays with a CRT shader.

The way I played C&C was set my display resolution to twice the size of the game and let it fill in so that I achieved a 2x bilinear fill with black borders. It wasn't too big nor too small. Modern graphic cards support integer scaling too.

For console games I do something similar, but emulators have integer scaling so I play them in 2x scale in windowed mode. Don't like it if they're too blurry when filling the whole screen.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
Apparently Euros have crippling gambling problems and can't play Q*bert without hitting the slots first. Watching Ocean's Eleven must be like those "porn with the sex cut out" videos for them.
You're not wrong. Here's a modern arcade which looks more or less how the old ones looked. There's 2p machines (put money in hoping to push more money out), 1 armed bandits, weird horse racing games and crane machines. This is what even the big arcades I visited in the 90s looked like for the most part. There was 5-10 computer games round the outside but the majority of space was dedicated to gambling games.
I played C&C 1 last year, the resolution (320x200) is slightly larger than SNES games (256x240)

all old games have a low resolution because they were designed for CRT displays which don't use pixels to display the game on screen. If you wanna play old games you have to zoom them in, many prefer to play them on 4k displays with a CRT shader.
How the resolution is used and what has changed is important. CnC's resolution can be difficult to deal with if you're using to 1080p for your RTS games. You can full screen them but you still lack play area compared to a modern RTS and that can taint how much you like a game.
 

Vic

Savant
Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Bethestard
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
5,760
Location
[REDACTED]
if you're using to 1080p for your RTS games.
seeing how the hayday of RTS was before 1080p displays were a thing, it just shows how retarded you are.

in essence what you are saying is that you like console games more than PC games, that's your personal opinion on it, don't generalize.
 

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