Hitman (2016) is dumbed down shit.

[anvi]

I think cuz gaming has become a wasteland of crap, low tier stuff gets promoted.

 

[blrrmmmff]

The original hitman gameplay were already mediocre, but we put up with it because gaming was in its infancy. And they were first of its kind. The first Hitman game was clunky as hell. You could look through walls already by looking at the map, which is lame and takes away suspense. AI was retarded.

But being mad about that is like being mad that Citizen Kane was not in color.

And we liked those games because they actually had good story telling, especially the first game. And they were very atmospheric. They had great soundtracks. It really felt like you were in Rotterdam or Eastern Europe. The NPC's actually spoke local languages.

The modern Hitman games have not improved on the gameplay and the dumb AI. They have not introduced any new interesting stealth mechanics. And are not atmospheric at all. Everyone speaks English with an American accent despite being in Italy or Japan or whatever and the story line is completely retarded to the point that you want to skip any cut scenes because it actively ruins suspense. And a significant portion of the larger maps are just empty filler.

But people put up with it because it wasn't as terrible as Hitman Absolution.

 

[Zlaja]

The interface of these new Hitman games pisses me off. When you start the game you're met with a confusing interface that looks like some MMO/Live service crap. Just give me a classic vertical list of options like "New Game/Load Game/Levels/Options", instead.

 

[luj1]

Hitman peaked at 2

Idk

Instead of killing enemies you can "knock out" them which is casual as fuck

The "suspicious" meter is also dumb as fuck

 

[mck]

all of the hitman games are good except absolution which is great

 

[maydaymemer]

I think cuz gaming has become a wasteland of crap, low tier stuff gets promoted.

I think if that were true, Hitman would be more popular than it is. People say it's popular but it's still a niche within a niche. For comparison, Hitman 3's only competitor in its genre that year was Deathloop, and despite dumbed down player choice and more technical bugs compared to Hitman and Dishonored its predecessor Deathloop still sold more, got better critic reviews and won a ton of awards purely because black people were in it

The original hitman gameplay were already mediocre, but we put up with it because gaming was in its infancy. And they were first of its kind. The first Hitman game was clunky as hell. You could look through walls already by looking at the map, which is lame and takes away suspense. AI was retarded.

But being mad about that is like being mad that Citizen Kane was not in color.

And we liked those games because they actually had good story telling, especially the first game. And they were very atmospheric. They had great soundtracks. It really felt like you were in Rotterdam or Eastern Europe. The NPC's actually spoke local languages.

The modern Hitman games have not improved on the gameplay and the dumb AI. They have not introduced any new interesting stealth mechanics. And are not atmospheric at all. Everyone speaks English with an American accent despite being in Italy or Japan or whatever and the story line is completely retarded to the point that you want to skip any cut scenes because it actively ruins suspense. And a significant portion of the larger maps are just empty filler.

But people put up with it because it wasn't as terrible as Hitman Absolution.

They put in accented voice acting in 2&3, plus the old games it only felt authentic because you didn't understand what they were saying. A lot of accents and foreign languages in many old games, including Hitman, were grammatically broken when translated by someone who spoke the language

I dont know where this idea that they didnt improve the gameplay comes from, the larger maps are meant to create a sense of place and are well researched based on the actual locations in addition to having multiple options to get thru them. They actually went to Mumbai in order to research how to provide contrast between rich and poor which is well realized in the level. The AI is now broken into multiple different subgroups from target to VIP to civillian to guard to bodyguard with nuances in the AI depending on who they are. AI react to different items depending on what kind of AI they are and what kind of item it is, you can combine items to create different kills. There is now foliage and crowds to blend in with as well as updates to the systems compared to the older games to accommodate more playstyles than before, in addition to being able to make your own levels. I don't know what could be added to the game systemically which could make you happy

Hitman's AI is bad in the same sense all stealth game AI is bad. Every stealth game involves walking past people who walk up and down the same routine and can be easily dealt with by making a noise and knocking them out and then repeating that forever. MGS5 has that problem. Splinter Cell has that problem. Dishonored has that problem. Thief and Deus Ex arguably dont have that problem but both have AI which can be exploited in other ways, for example bunnyhoping thru levels

The interface of these new Hitman games pisses me off. When you start the game you're met with a confusing interface that looks like some MMO/Live service crap. Just give me a classic vertical list of options like "New Game/Load Game/Levels/Options", instead.

Completely agreed. The old games had better UI, every game was just a cool like screensaver with white text showing the levels. It works with keeping a consistent unintrusive style while also making picking a level quicker

all of the hitman games are good except absolution which is great

Absolution unironically is a good game. If you want a more hardcore Hitman experience it's got the more realistic AI that reacts to fucking everything, but my issue with it is not enough sandbox levels. The sandbox levels they have are actually pretty decent, not a patch on Blood Money or the new games, but theres not enough of them

Hitman peaked at 2

Idk

Instead of killing enemies you can "knock out" them which is casual as fuck

The "suspicious" meter is also dumb as fuck

Thief let you blackjack enemies

 

[blrrmmmff]

They put in accented voice acting in 2&3, plus the old games it only felt authentic because you didn't understand what they were saying. A lot of accents and foreign languages in many old games, including Hitman, were grammatically broken when translated by someone who spoke the language

I dont know where this idea that they didnt improve the gameplay comes from, the larger maps are meant to create a sense of place and are well researched based on the actual locations in addition to having multiple options to get thru them. They actually went to Mumbai in order to research how to provide contrast between rich and poor which is well realized in the level. The AI is now broken into multiple different subgroups from target to VIP to civillian to guard to bodyguard with nuances in the AI depending on who they are. AI react to different items depending on what kind of AI they are and what kind of item it is, you can combine items to create different kills. There is now foliage and crowds to blend in with as well as updates to the systems compared to the older games to accommodate more playstyles than before, in addition to being able to make your own levels. I don't know what could be added to the game systemically which could make you happy

Hitman's AI is bad in the same sense all stealth game AI is bad. Every stealth game involves walking past people who walk up and down the same routine and can be easily dealt with by making a noise and knocking them out and then repeating that forever. MGS5 has that problem. Splinter Cell has that problem. Dishonored has that problem. Thief and Deus Ex arguably dont have that problem but both have AI which can be exploited in other ways, for example bunnyhoping thru levels

It is still a downgrade. And as someone who spoke one of those foreign languages, it was actually pretty decent and immersive.

Yeah they did make some small AI improvements, but it still is largely the same. Guards are still really dumb. NPCs can't seem to look ahead more than 10 meters. You put on the right uniform and you get past them even when you behave weird. A social engineering game like Hitman could be massively improved by a more intelligent AI. And it could add a lot of interesting dimensions to gameplay. It would also allow for far fewer guards. And make outsmarting guards far more satisfying. I don't understand why advances in AI are not used in videogames yet.

The problem is then, you play 2-3 stealth games, and without significantly improved AI they are all just reskinned versions with prettier graphics. I much rather play a higher resolution version of Hitman Contracts or Bloodmoney with a completely overhauled AI, and get rid of that stupid radar map.

And the problem with large maps is that they still feel lifeless. NPCs walk around aimlessly most of the time. Or just stare into the distance. People don't respond much to your behavior.

Looking through walls is one of the worst offences though. It ruins any stealth game for me. It feels like playing with a cheat code and kills all suspense. And then if you turn it off, you realize the game is not designed around that.

Chaos Theory and Thief 2 had the right foundation to build and improve on, but for some reason nobody in the gaming industry could understand that. In 18 years since Chaos theory, very little improvements have been made to AI behavior and gameplay loop. And only downgrades like looking through walls. While writing quality of story and dialogue has fallen off a cliff.

 

[Utgard-Loki]

Hitman peaked at 2. I don't get the popularity with this series.

I don't get it either; original Hitman games were niche, don't know how 2016 reboot become popular.

dumb shit like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6do1-cmcQHE

 

[HereticGuy]

Hitman peaked at 2. I don't get the popularity with this series.

I don't get it either; original Hitman games were niche, don't know how 2016 reboot become popular.

dumb shit like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6do1-cmcQHE

Ahahaha, what the fuck? Didn't know Agent 47 has a homing briefcase as an assassination tool

 

[maydaymemer]

It is still a downgrade. And as someone who spoke one of those foreign languages, it was actually pretty decent and immersive.

Well like I said now they have accented english and dont go to non-english countries as much

Yeah they did make some small AI improvements, but it still is largely the same. Guards are still really dumb. NPCs can't seem to look ahead more than 10 meters. You put on the right uniform and you get past them even when you behave weird. A social engineering game like Hitman could be massively improved by a more intelligent AI. And it could add a lot of interesting dimensions to gameplay. It would also allow for far fewer guards. And make outsmarting guards far more satisfying. I don't understand why advances in AI are not used in videogames yet.

it's one of those thing where I dont think either of us can convince the other, I can keep bringing up improvements guard AI has like how they will send other guards to dispose of weapons so they dont leave the target's side, them looking for bodies after a target goes missing, them disarming bombs, but your general conclusion that it's not smart enough for you is not wrong because I don't think this kind of game is for you. The AI is designed to be very readable and exploitable, and I feel like I and most fans wouldnt enjoy it as much if it was a more hardcore experience while you would. The least popular Hitmans are the most punishing (H2SA, Absolution) while the most popular are the easiest (Blood Money, Contracts). Another example is the distance NPCs can see is a lot longer than for example Dishonored, in Hitman everyone has a ton of vertical vision, but the more vision you give them the more frustrated fans get. The Haven Island level made view cones larger and everyone complains about them. Though it's less of a view cone issue and more what they're designed around. If they made a new Hitman and people saw really far they'd probably just make levels bigger and your gripes with view cones and large levels wouldnt be resolved

The problem is then, you play 2-3 stealth games, and without significantly improved AI they are all just reskinned versions with prettier graphics. I much rather play a higher resolution version of Hitman Contracts or Bloodmoney with a completely overhauled AI, and get rid of that stupid radar map.

And the problem with large maps is that they still feel lifeless. NPCs walk around aimlessly most of the time. Or just stare into the distance. People don't respond much to your behavior.

Like I said I dont think we'll ever agree on this. In my opinion I find the NPCs are always given a purpose to be there. People in Italy are either there to shop, in their houses or are working. They have set schedules ala Majora's Mask but not nearly complex enough since they're all meant to be unimportant enough that you can bump any off at any point. I enjoy the details in scripting, like in the India level when if you let a meeting the guards are holding in a residential area take place they will then leave and the people who live there will pour back in. But I don't think that will be enough for you personally because since it's a sandbox stealth game and not an RG the kind of game Hitman is doesn't account for incredibly deep persistent worlds. They're meant to be facsimiles of events or areas a person will want to experience

Looking through walls is one of the worst offences though. It ruins any stealth game for me. It feels like playing with a cheat code and kills all suspense. And then if you turn it off, you realize the game is not designed around that.

Chaos Theory and Thief 2 had the right foundation to build and improve on, but for some reason nobody in the gaming industry could understand that. In 18 years since Chaos theory, very little improvements have been made to AI behavior and gameplay loop. And only downgrades like looking through walls. While writing quality of story and dialogue has fallen off a cliff.

If its any consolation I played all of 2016 with the instinct and map turned off and did just fine. Since every level follows a set schedule you can get thru it via memorization more than any other stealth, tho every stealth game is made easier via trial and error as a genre staple

Hitman peaked at 2. I don't get the popularity with this series.

I don't get it either; original Hitman games were niche, don't know how 2016 reboot become popular.

dumb shit like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6do1-cmcQHE

Ahahaha, what the fuck? Didn't know Agent 47 has a homing briefcase as an assassination tool

yea its something they added with the second game, which leaned into wacky gadgets. you can unlock the goldeneye pen too

 

[Wunderbar]

I don't know what retrogrades here are smoking - each new Hitman game is better than the previous one (except for Absolution).

Codename 47 is basically a proof of concept demo with lots of rough edges, Silent Assassin improves on the social steath ideas but has a lot of bad design decisions that make the game overly hard. Contracts is basically the first Hitman game with fully realized social stealth/sandbox gameplay where you can either find your own approach or pick one of multiple pre-designed ways to kill the target (it is my favorite game in the series, has really great edgelord mission settings and best Kyd's soundtrack).

Pretty much every game after Contracts was using Contracts' template and adding more stuff to it - bigger maps, more tools to play around with, more ways to kill the target, more refined gameplay mechanics, etc.

I didn't play the last two games from Assassination Trilogy, but i played Hitman 2016 and it was basically Blood Money, but with bigger maps and more focus on replayability. From what i've seen HITMAN 2 and 3 are the same, just more refined.

 

[maydaymemer]

I don't know what retrogrades here are smoking - each new Hitman game is better than the previous one (except for Absolution).

Codename 47 is basically a proof of concept demo with lots of rough edges, Silent Assassin improves on the social steath ideas but has a lot of bad design decisions that make the game overly hard. Contracts is basically the first Hitman game with fully realized social stealth/sandbox gameplay where you can either find your own approach or pick one of multiple pre-designed ways to kill the target (it is my favorite game in the series, has really great edgelord mission settings and best Kyd's soundtrack).

Pretty much every game after Contracts was using Contracts' template and adding more stuff to it - bigger maps, more tools to play around with, more ways to kill the target, more refined gameplay mechanics, etc.

I didn't play the last two games from Assassination Trilogy, but i played Hitman 2016 and it was basically Blood Money, but with bigger maps and more focus on replayability. From what i've seen HITMAN 2 and 3 are the same, just more refined.

i was just playing contracts recently and i was amazed how it was a full on proper sandbox. I always thought of it as Silent Assassin but more, with Blood Money as the first sandbox, but Contracts isnt a rigid puzzle game like Hitman 2SA is. the meat king's party is a great mission because you have three different ways to approach such a static target which was unprecedented. There's balconies, a window on the roof and the chicken route everyone uses

 

[agentorange]

I played through Agent 47 over the last week and finished it yesterday, and can say with authority that gameplay wise it is not very good, vastly inferior to Hitman Silent Assassin, Contracts, and the recent nu-Trilogy. Gameplay mostly consists of running around insta-throat slitting people with the knife, and when you get into a firefight you can simply change a disguise, even into the same disguise you were wearing, and people will forget who you are even if you run right up to their face. When you have a disguise on you are never under threat of being discovered until you inevitably go through a checkpoint accidentally and everyone immediately opens fire on you.

Visual, audio-design wise the game is good, though the atmosphere in the missions is inconsistent and some are quite dull especially compared to their remade versions in Contracts. All the little animations they have for Agent 47 are better than what you see in modern games. I loved the cinematic camera angle that can be toggled on and wish they had kept it in the subsequent games. The gunplay feels very satisfying and it was funny emptying an entire Desert Eagle magazine in half a second into some goons face.

The Chinatown missions are generally solid and I can see why they opted not to change much about them for their remade versions in Contracts. The Contracts versions of the levels add a few more complexities, options, and a cooler atmosphere.

The jungle missions are irredeemable garbage with nothing good to say about them, made perfect sense why they were excised from Contracts. Visually ugly, thematically stupid (yeah I really want to deal with a bunch of tribals and run around looking for a sacred idol in a Hitman game). Capped off with a tedious boss fight against Scarface where you are interrupted with a cutscene after every time you shoot him (the boss is not even challenging but is made infuriatingly tedious to retry because of these cutscenes when you inevitable die elsewhere in the mission).

Budapest Hotel mission is a highlight of the game and is very similar to the version in Contracts. Contracts version is superior, though, because the hotel is more meaningfully larger (I say this because the version in Agent 47 might be larger in sheer scale but it has mostly empty, undetailed areas) and adds an additional target, and has a far more moody ambiance which is some of the best in any game.

The two Rotterdam missions have some good parts to them, but the second one is an exercise in tedium with having to nonsensically follow slow moving npcs through huge, empty areas in order to get through checkpoints (making this another level that is infuriating to replay). Combining the two Rotterdam missions into one single mission in Contracts, and adding an additional new Rotterdam mission, was a vast improvement. Atmosphere and visual direction in the Agent 47 version of Rotterdam missions was the best in the game, though, and seems to have informed the direction of Contracts.

The final mission in the asylum was unique and it was nice to finally get some context for the opening mission of Contracts, although the final boss fight against the Agent 48s was quite silly.

 

[Maggot]

SA's disguise system is pretty reasonable to deal with once you realize correct weapons give a bonus to your disguise ability and that you should never stay too close to other guards for long. Contracts did make things like sneaking up to enemies smoother but you still get a variety of options in 2, it just doesn't have a large amount of accident kills and assassinations are generally something a Hitman would actually do like shooting or strangulation.

As much as I like the new games, I wish we could get another smaller, more focused Hitman game with objectives like the Chinatown missions in Contracts, or the Malaysia missions in 2 where you have 3 small missions tied together as you progress through a skyscraper. I personally loved the final mission of the nuHitman trilogy because they tried something different rather than have yet another massive playground as some of the nuHitman 2 missions were a bit too big for my liking and felt like 3 smaller levels stapled together. A reasonable compromise would be to do what they did with Sapienza and have multiple missions take place on the same map focused on certain parts of the level, but that takes more work than low effort DLC like the Seven Deadly Sins.