Game News How about some more Fallout 3 insanity?

[Hazelnut]

Here's a priceless quote:<blockquote>If you are a fan who is adamantly against some significant changes to the way gameplay occurs in the Fallout series, I’m going to tell you right now and save you the disappointment: I don’t think you’ll like Fallout 3. However, if you’re a fan of the Fallout universe, of the unique look of the world, of the moral ambiguity, of the dark and often violent humor, and the invigorating branching story paths, then everything about what I’ve seen of Fallout 3 should please you.</blockquote>Does. Not. Compute. It's like saying, "if you care about the gameplay and the concept of continuity in a sequel, you're not a Fallout fan - if you are only interested in a handful of stylistic elements and themes that may not even be exclusive to Fallout, then you're a real fan and we've got just the thing for you".

Thanks for ruining my day Role-Player! Still, it's better to know for sure sooner rather than later, and I think these answers coupled with the GI article remove all possible doubt. (and fuck off anyone who wants to give me a hard time saying that we knew a long time ago - we strongly suspected, but there remained a slim chance, million to one, and although most people in RL think of me as a pessimist, here on the Codex apparently I'm an optimist )

I remember expressing concern that the style and theme (not even the canon) were all that Beth 'got', and a large percentage of players of the original as well for that matter. I'm not sure that there's ever been so many people so fucking regretful about being right about something as trivial as a computer game before... oh god damn it Herve you're an absolute motherfucking cunt who deserves eternal damnation for your greed and idiocy. You're truly among the lowest of the low. I can't really blame Beth overmuch, but I wish they'd just gone their own way rather than buy the Fallout IP, allowing the possibilty that a real F3 would have been made someday.

I do hope this game bombs like POS did (I can respect POS slightly more because at least it never tried to pretend it was anything other than a spin off) and Beth takes a huge financial hit. I also wish the very best of luck to the Fallout hardcore in any efforts they make to help this happen. As far as I'm concerned, all the fluffy choices & consequences, multiple endings, no twitch gaming, better NPCs and dialogue stuff in the GI article is Beth trying to keep the fanbase onside and divided as long as possible, maybe even get some to buy the game. It's cynical whether they realise it or not. If they really wanted that kind of thing then the Toddler wouldn't be saying stuff like "wants you to see the game in first person and in third person because he wants the players to feel the world but he doesn't want to reward player with twitch play because stats really matters" (NMA vid cliff notes)

(I'm feeling uncharacteristically uncharitable today, but this is not what should have happened to Cain, Boyarsky and Anderson's Fallout, even if I like FP games as a rule)

 

[Koby]

I do agree with the purchase of the license being pretty stupid. They could have done the "spiritual successor" thing just fine and spent half the license budget on more viral marketing and palm greasing.

What do you mean "spiritual successor"? That shit take creativity to make and creativity is teh hard.

It is not like it would be as easy as like:

Vaults =>
nuclear shelter, 'Shelter' in short (vd = Shelter citizen)
War asylum (vd == from/of the asylum / asylum inhabitant)
...

BoS =>
Knight of Armageddon
Guardian of the ancient
...

Or is it that the guys in Bethesda never heard of thesaurus before?

 

[Ander Vinz]

Or is it that the guys in Bethesda never heard of thesaurus before?

Even Toika guys weren't going to do such stupid thing thought they had all moral rights to use their own design material. There are lots of ways to make good post-apoc setting without it.

edit: I just don't fucking understand why BS needed to snatch Fallout license from Troika's hands to make shit out of it. I don't see any logic. It's more like head-ill people who likes destroying everything good and beautiful.

 

[thesheeep]

Actually, with all the bitching on the codex, from what I've heard and understood about Fallout3, it's gonna be Oblivion with guns (was that ever in doubt), but it's gonna be a hundred times deeper - not that I'm gonna buy, but I will try it out (they still owe me for Oblivion (Asda (UK counterpart of Walmart) wouldn't take it back).

You shouldn't listen to the ranting here too much. It is more or less the same all the time and in most cases only a copy of Vault Dweller's (&co) opinion.

You should try to stay neutral until you get some infos which actually say something (a fuck*ng gameplay-movie.. but since Beth are PR-dictators, you will have to wait...). For example reading the GI article and not only the ranting about it. I'm not saying you didn't do so... But most people didn't.

It explains why there is still so much ranting about VATS for example, while the arguments in those rants are simply false ones.

You probably shouldn't listen to anyone, not even to me

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

edit: I just don't fucking understand why BS needed to snatch Fallout license from Troika's hands to make shit out of it.

That is the one-million-nuka-cola-bottle-cap question, isn't it. As far as I'm concerned, they had absolutely no moral right to; it is a slap in the face to the gaming community. Of course, no one really gives a shit what I'm concerned about, or about "moral rights" when it comes to intellectual property. However, if they were really such "big fans" of the originals as they say they are, they'd offer the license to (some of) the original designers (what's the closest thing nowadays, Obsidian?) -- free of charge. You know, being such huge fans, and all.

 

[sheek]

I think buying the licence was a mistake. Children love to be with the cool kids, and the 0ldsk00l h4rdk0r are trashing it. There's a good chance it will be one of those games where you lose epenis points if you admit to liking it, and the gaming press will disown it 20 minutes after giving it OVER NINE THOUSSSAAAAAAAAANNNNNDDDDD out of 10. Much like DX2.

I hope you're right...

Seeing the video reminded of me of exactly who's in charge of the project. Seeing Todd's stupid face has destroyed any slight expectation I had, that they'd screw up the combat but maybe at least get quests and plot right.

All we have so far are gimmicks. The VATS thing, the chargen, the toilet bowl health potions, the PipBoy with integrated radio... all these things were designed for the media and hype, and we don't have any hard info on anything that matters. Bethesda could make a decent game, they must have some competent people in their 80+ development team, but with Todd in charge it's headed straight for the trash can.

 

[elander_]

Strangely I didn't faint when i read that Fallout 3 dialog will be tree based just like Oblivion and Fallout. Technically Oblivon and Fallout dialog work the same, it's was the content and the structure of quests that were significantly different with Oblivion having one or two word responses and Fallout being much more elaborated on the choices of responses.

The only thing that is clear is that VATS is nothing more than a version of Bullet Time and any hopes to have some sort of TB combat are lost. The only thing we have are promises of choices and consequences for other paths besides combat like diplomat and stealth. This is something that will only be clear when they show us a good quest with plenty of options and the impact these options have in the world and factions. Something the quality of the quest to free Tandi would be acceptable.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

Technically Oblivon and Fallout dialog work the same.

Wait, what?

 

[Koby]

edit: I just don't fucking understand why BS needed to snatch Fallout license from Troika's hands to make shit out of it.

That is the one-million-nuka-cola-bottle-cap question, isn't it. As far as I'm concerned, they had absolutely no moral right to; it is a slap in the face to the gaming community. Of course, no one really gives a shit what I'm concerned about, or about "moral rights" when it comes to intellectual property. However, if they were really such "big fans" of the originals as they say they are, they'd offer the license to (some of) the original designers (what's the closest thing nowadays, Obsidian?) -- free of charge. You know, being such huge fans, and all.

That would be a stretch.

A more realistic expectation would have been: "However, if they were really such 'big fans' of the originals as they say they are", why not consult with the original Fallout developers and designers, or better yet, ask them to come on board and develop Fallout3 with them.

If I was on the Bethesda development team I would be just as exited to work with Tim Cain, Chris Taylor, Boyarsky and a few other and learn from them about game design as I would be exited to work on the Fallout franchise.

God knows, Todd need every bit of help he can get at that department.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

"However, if they were really such 'big fans' of the originals as they say they are", why not consult with the original Fallout developers and designers, or better yet, ask them to come on board and develop Fallout3 with them.

Sure, but it was quite clear from the very beginning that Bethesda was never interested in creating a real sequel to Fallout. Shoving Cain, Taylor, and Boyarsky into the team would be like throwing the proverbial pearls before swine.

 

[elander_]

Technically Oblivon and Fallout dialog work the same.

Wait, what?

I said technically.

 

[fastpunk]

Q: Is this another Oblivion but with a Fallout theme?

<b>conversations with NPCs use a similar style of dialogue tree</b>

Fuckin' hell! What dialog tree? That was a box with some text in it... you can't call that a dialog tree...

<b>In practice, this means players have the option to play the game very much like an RPG, but with a good bit more action than traditional RPGs.</b>

So basically this is like The Matrix: Path of Neo where you could FOCUS to aim better... only here you stop time, there you only slowed it down... sounds very RPG like!

OK, so right now my hopes rest on The Witcher for a good RPG in the next year or two...

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I think buying the licence was a mistake. Children love to be with the cool kids, and the 0ldsk00l h4rdk0r are trashing it. There's a good chance it will be one of those games where you lose epenis points if you admit to liking it, and the gaming press will disown it 20 minutes after giving it OVER NINE THOUSSSAAAAAAAAANNNNNDDDDD out of 10. Much like DX2.

I hope you're right...

Seeing the video reminded of me of exactly who's in charge of the project. Seeing Todd's stupid face has destroyed any slight expectation I had, that they'd screw up the combat but maybe at least get quests and plot right.

All we have so far are gimmicks. The VATS thing, the chargen, the toilet bowl health potions, the PipBoy with integrated radio... all these things were designed for the media and hype, and we don't have any hard info on anything that matters. Bethesda could make a decent game, they must have some competent people in their 80+ development team, but with Todd in charge it's headed straight for the trash can.

O RLY?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Thanks for ruining my day Role-Player!

You're welcome.

Of course, it also ruins mine. I don't think I can stomach all of the waffling about in every piece of info dripping out of the well oiled hype machine, and I'm verging on absolute despise on these sycophantic little yesmen who try to defend Bethesda's every single decision because they arbitrarily decide that X or Y gameplay element is not what makes Fallout so they can parrot some company's business decisions in a juvenile belief that not only the majority is right, but that it will also somehow bolster their e-penis.

The other day I managed to sit down with my girlfriend and introduce her to Fallout. She's the kind of gamer that preferes something like, say, Puzzle Bobble, Zuma or even a God of War on Easy setting than a slow, methodical role-playing game. She once spotted me playing Vampire: Bloodlines and her reaction was basically, in the words of brave Minsc, "less talk, more fight".

The minute she started hearing "Maybe..." in Fallout's intro movie she got interested in it. I walked her through the character development process, and she went for Traits and Skills on her own. After struggling a bit with the interface she was on her way to interacting with the gameworld. She was having a blast with the combat, the tension of having no armor and a crummy pistol with little ammo to spare against a mutated molerat in a poorly lit Vault entrance. She went from Vault 13 to the Hub reading all dialogue she could lay eyes on and doing every quest she could. She only quit playing because she had a long day and needed to rest.

When I told her about VATS and how it worked, she just asked "Why are they doing that? Why are they changing it? This is actually fun." Anecdotal as that may sound, it's all true. And it's depressing when someone who isn't even a fan of the game manages to get a clue and rub more than two brain cells together to understand why the criticism is this intense.

 

[Baphomet]

I wasn't expecting a modern AAA studio to release a game with turn based combat and an isometric view. That's the realm of niche markets and the indie developers who serve them. They say they're going to add multiple solutions to quests, tough decisions, consequences. So I'm interested yet skeptical; I'd like to hear some concrete examples.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

You should try to stay neutral until you get some infos which actually say something (a fuck*ng gameplay-movie

Yes, you should try to wait it out for a movie if you can't understand what you're reading.

 

[elander_]

Those threads asking for true fans to post if they are going to buy Fallout 3 are the top of retarded thinking. I don't see much different between these threads and the opposite where you are asked to post if you are NOT going to buy Fallout 3. It's two sides of the same coin, opposite views both retarded in the same way. It almost sounds like politics in a way with republicans and democrats in the USA and socialists and democrats in the EU.

 

[Mr Happy]

Q: Will Fallout 3 be as open-ended as Oblivion?

A: In many ways, Fallout 3 is being designed to be more open-ended than Oblivion, offering choices to players that alter the course of the game world in dramatic ways. In Oblivion, for instance, you either do the Dark Brotherhood missions or not. But imagine if you had the choice to either become the leader of the Dark Brotherhood, or infiltrate it and bring it down from the inside. Alternately, pretend you had an unstable nuclear bomb, and you put it outside the Dark Brotherhood hideaway and blew it up. That’s the level of open-endedness they’re shooting for with Fallout 3.

Q: How is the story going to work, how many quests are there, how much branching is there, etc?

A: I received a bunch of questions from you all on this point, and it shouldn’t surprise you to learn that I don’t really have the answers. With over a year of development ahead, I’m sure even Bethesda doesn’t know all the details about exactly how many quests will be in the final version. However, you can certainly look at the story elements that were included in the magazine article and draw a few conclusions. In the demo that was narrated throughout the article, the character chose to arm and detonate a nuclear bomb in the town of Megaton. This choice effectively closed off a whole slew of events and quests that could only be found in Megaton. Go back to that town afterwards for the rest of the game and all the people, homes, and shops will be gone, replaced by a big irradiated hole in the ground. However, having blown up Megaton, a previously unfriendly settlement that your employer is affiliated with might open up, and new quests, (probably some pretty evil ones) might become available. Had the character not blown up Megaton, there are all sorts of quests there that would open up in Megaton, but that other town and its quests might never become an option. You might be asking yourself: “Well, wouldn’t that mean I could have a dramatically different playthrough the second time through?” That’s sort of the idea, I think, at least if Bethesda manages to successfully implement this idea.

This sort of stuff is somewhat encouraging, but honestly if with the dialogue/combat systems as they seem now, I doubt they have the ability to get this sort of stuff. Gosh, I have to say, Bethesda is totally inept in the PR area (http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17821) They could have cleared up this dialogue bizarreness one way or the other by now.

Roleplayer: Heh, similar thing happened to me. My a couple of friends (who are definately not rpg/strategy game type people) gave fallout a try a while back, and loved the combat. Of course, it was the death animations and "tactical option" of targeting the groin, but even so, if they could enjoy it, and maybe realize the potential of this type of system...

 

[Section8]

(I'm feeling uncharacteristically uncharitable today, but this is not what should have happened to Cain, Boyarsky and Anderson's Fallout, even if I like FP games as a rule)

So does anyone know a place where you can buy "Sorry we butchered and raped your lovechild before pimping it out to the lowest common denominator" gift cards?

 

[Elhoim]

My a couple of friends (who are definately not rpg/strategy game type people) gave fallout a try a while back, and loved the combat. Of course, it was the death animations and "tactical option" of targeting the groin

And F3 has both... So I guess they love it too.

 

[Mr Happy]

Haha, I though the groin targeted was disputed? whatever

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

So does anyone know a place where you can buy "Sorry we butchered and raped your lovechild before pimping it out to the lowest common denominator" gift cards?

Maybe Bethesda should put one of these into Fallout 3 Collector's Edition box?

 

[Jedi_Learner]

...

 

[Deacdo]

The whole dialog tree thing...doesn't that just mean there *is* a dialog tree? It doesn't mean the "dialog is similar to Oblivion's". NPC dialog and multiple responses. Standard stuff.

 

[stargelman]

"Wow, this really has a unique texture to it"

Yeah. That's what I said when I first played Fallout. Uh-huh. Yupp. Got that right. Sure. Absolutely correct.

This game is so doomed.

Edit: after watching the second vid with a growing sense of nausea, I'm wondering more and more if VATS will be anything more than a combat minigame. It sure dosen't sound like it.