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HUMANKIND - Amplitude's historical turn-based strategy

Goliath

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
17,830
The result is a complete sense of schizophrenia and alienation. You start as Egypt, then turn into Rome, then become England, Korea, then France. Meanwhile, they're all being led by the same blonde pale dude (your avatar), cosplaying and looking super out-of-place half the time. Your cities are still called Memphis, Thebes, etc. The architecture just bizarrely changes from Egyptian to Roman, then suddenly East Asian, then suddenly European again. There's absolutely no sense of consistency, theme, or ownership. Pretty soon, you're just minmaxing the abstract game mechanics, getting your numbers up, and stomping the other nondescript, schizophrenic cosplayers without any feeling of leading a people through history.
This. The culture flipping completely ruins the game for me. Complete immersion killer. No "feeling of leading a people through history" nails it.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,603
I'm not sure letting reddit live rent-free in your head is healthy. Just laugh it off. Flush the game down the toilet if you can't.

Although I have to agree, while culture flipping wasn't THAT obnoxious to me because I only played 3 eras max, the resulting patchwork is moronic.
The 10% point bonus you get from staying in the same culture is laughable compared to stacked legacy bonuses, wish they upped it somewhat to make it at least semi-viable.

It wouldn't fix the fundamental issue that e.g. you need yo go over a bunch of cultures just to play French, Germans or Russians. Not sure if it'd kill them to do a bit of research and organize cultures
into, dunno, branching trees of somesort? Would make much more sense.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,265
Location
Italy
quick update: it also corrupts saves and the endless turn bug is still in place.
literally a mod.

besides, even at normal the game cheats shamelessly, while my biggest cities struggled to reach 30 pop, single-region neighbour happily pushed past 50. considering all the limits in place to constrain growth, the only way to really win is to conquer.
 
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Fedora Master

STOP POSTING
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Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
31,774
unknown.png


:prosper:
 

Fedora Master

STOP POSTING
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Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
31,774
Literally the first thing I saw when I started up the game and fucked around with the avatar system.

NICE FUCKIN' GAME.
 
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spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,603
Okay, one last AAR from me, as close to a final verdict as I'll ever be. I decided to trudge through one game just to see some endgame tech. Even managed to fight a proper war this time.
It was a bit of a slog, because I pretty much won the game in the medieval era, the rest of the game I spent sprawling over two continents, then switched everything to tech and industrial production in anticipation of unleashing modern firepower
on hapless cunts two tiers beneath me. However, this plan was cut short, because the game ended sorta prematurely, even by going pretty much 100% tech (and researching modern tech every 2-3 turns), I barely completed the Manhattan Project three turns before the game ended.
I wasn't even close to launching mission to mars. I could theoretically push past this limit, bud fuck that. For some reason, the ending date was 1800 AD. Not sure how the fuck it's calculated, but it feels wrong.

I caught the endless turn bug once, thought the game is FUBAR, but it went away after restarting and saves don't seem to be corrupted.

Afterwards, the game gives you some ending slides briefly summarizing what you did, citing a bunch of achievements, like for example my participating in the longest war in the game.
Still, it was a bit funny hearing that I supposedly left the planet relatively unpolluted, when nobody really had any chance to do any because the AIs were sorta sitting there, back in the medieval age
and I was clicking through a whole bunch of events without paying much attention, and didn't bother to build a whole lot of things like merchant districts (and I was still swimming in cash regardless).

I think it is clear that while the later eras are content complete, but the balancing simply isn't there. I think this shows in research speed but also minor things like strategic resources. For example, despite my global hegemony, I was unable to build one type of upgraded artillery, because there simply wasn't enough Saltpeter on the two continents I occupied. Perhaps some AI had access to the third and maybe fourth, but I couldn't be bothered to go through the hassle just to get it.
IMO, no unit or improvement should ever require more than two of a given strategic resource and most should just need one.

AI: I think it's safe to assume the AI is cheating regardless of difficulty. Whenever I inspect what they're up to, I keep seeing shit I could never pull, like building a bazillion districts seemingly without any concern about stability.
When it comes to behavior in combat, the AI does weird shit when traversing the map, but from what I've seen, it performs ok in battles. I guess it was easier to make it work in a constrained theater.
I never saw AI using any sort of ships whatsoever. This is of course a typical weak spot of many 4X, but this was in the course of an entire game and felt especially jarring, there wasn't a single scout vessel or coastal patrols, I don't think it even built any harbors.

Civics: While I like this mechanic in general - letting you manipulate ideologic axes and get some bonuses which can be situationally useful, it became more of a let down the further it went. The most annoying thing is that the game keeps the civics hidden,
and they sorta pop out of nowhere once you meet the requirements. As a result, I never saw almost half of the civics tree and had to look shit up on the wiki to even see what's there.
Also, while the effects can be significant in the early game, a lot of the time a civic does nothing or getting +1 stability on one district type isn't something you'll be losing sleep over.

Tech: like I said earlier, tech progress in the later eras feels weird. My pet peeve is how useless are some of the bonuses you get from research. A 20% discount on building a district is meaningless if it comes at the stage of the game.
Can't believe I'm saying this, because I always considered this feature to be game-breaking in the early Civ games, but tech trading should be a thing in this game. There are some mechanics like "cultural osmosis" which let you "steal" tech from a civ that has cultural influence over you, but it's more of a catch-up mechanic. The game seems to have a bunch of those, so I'm not sure to what degree the devs were aware of the problem of one or two civs just running off with the game early on.

Wonders: It's interesting that you need to first buy the "right" to build it with influence. Kinda solves the frustration when someone beats you to building a wonder by one turn.
For some reason, they all feel so boring. It's mostly some flat bonus to stability and FIMS, so you tend to gravitate to a bunch that actually look like they do something unique,
and there could be more of those. I think I've gotten the most mileage out of the Lighthouse and its +2 ship movement.

Wars: So yeah, I fought some wars, and it was frankly terrible. You need to jump through some hoops to start it all legit, or use the surprise attack option which gives you a Traitor perk. I didn't use this option, might be less of an issue
than it's cut out to be, but I like to keep a good name in my strategy games. You can bypass it of sorts by using the special ability of Expansionist civs, this also lets you initiate skirmishes, which should be enough to escalate to an actual war.
The war itself was a bit of a slog cause the AI kept sending waves after waves of riders at me. Cities also automatically generate a bunch of defenders, so it was quite a bit of meat to grind through. the end result is that sieges behave a bit like
in Total War, you can even spend extra turns building siege engines, but I think the system is missing some mechanic to starve the defenders out (or is it a thing I missed in the meanders of the interface? I can never tell).

The worst part, however was being rudely interrupted as I was just about to take their capital. The game decided we need to discuss terms now, and fuck me, it doesn't take no for an answer.
Most infuriating thing was, I didn't have enough "war points" to even keep the two cities I took. I was short a few points, so I would gladly whoop their ass for one turn more.

There doesn't seem to be an option to raze cities, which is a bummer. Also, the way the AI seems to run things, the city is one big blob of walled districts, making it difficult to raid and pillage any improvements,
unless the intention was to go all out pillaging once you won the siege, which felt a bit counter intuitive at some point. The game could use some lootable farms and cottages at the very least.

I was also rather let down by veterancy. Turns out you get through all the bother keeping units alive and earning expt, but the result is a measly +1 strength increase per star. Like many things in this game,
it can make a difference early on, but is meaningless once the numbers are in the 50-60 range.

A verdict, of sorts: I don't dislike the game, it does a surprising number of things right, even manages to fix some stuff from Civ. For example, battlefields look like an interesting answer to the 1UPT problem
and I think I like how it ended up, as a sort of hybrid system with armies comprising of 4-8 units. It's not perfect, but I think it can work with some tweaking.
There are more than a few decent ideas, for example, later in the game you can build settlers which immediately found the city and let you install a whole bunch of improvements.
I genuinely enjoyed the exploration aspects, the expansion as well as the early game. Unfortunately, it's rather clear the game falls apart in its later stages.
The culture patchwork ended up being a disaster. Mechanically speaking, I think it could be salvageable. Pick your culture at the very beginning to set your unique units (give everyone unique shit for each era if you must),
then choose a specialization and legacy bonus at the start of each era without fucking with the appearance. It doesn't make a shred of sense that I can't play militaristic this time, because the relevant picks were already taken for this era.

So, what am I looking towards? The game doesn't seem to be lacking features, if anything, Amplitude should take a long hard look at what worked and what not. Not sure if its realistic to expect
a big patch or DLC to unfuck it, and I'd hate to be the "mods'll fix this" guy, especially if we don't know what's going to be actually moddable. At least 50% of the game is in need a major overhaul as far as I'm concerned.
The game does a rather poor job at explaining its own mechanics. One feature that I especially miss is some kind of a preview, or an estimation what will I gain from building an improvement. It's sometimes hard to gauge if it's worth it and it would be nice to have the number spelt out. As said earlier, the interface is really bad, so I'm not 100% positive. Pehaps there's some convoluted way of seeing this.
From what I've seen absolutely nothing justifies the asking price, I'm not giving them any money and neither should you, but it's worth demoing to make up your own mind.
 
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Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,265
Location
Italy
i said it's a mod, didn't i? i got two randomly named outposts, "capella" and "alpha centauri".

There doesn't seem to be an option to raze cities, which is a bummer.
use a unit to ransack it. that's how you actually wage war: siege, conquer, raze, build outpost in its place. you get the region and everything build in (except some obvious buildings), potential wonders included, and don't give a fuck about war score or newly conquered cities loyalty.
 
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Joggerino

Arcane
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
4,588
It really sounds like a trash game tbh, even not considering the switching cultures nonsense.
 

Fedora Master

STOP POSTING
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
31,774
The community around this is already insufferable and filled ith sycophants. So if you expect the community to improve the game... Don't. It didn't work for Endless Space either.

E: The game does its absolute best to try and prevent civs from being genocided, which is a hilariously stupid take on HUMAN HISTORY
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
19,230
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
The community around this is already insufferable and filled ith sycophants. So if you expect the community to improve the game... Don't. It didn't work for Endless Space either.

E: The game does its absolute best to try and prevent civs from being genocided, which is a hilariously stupid take on HUMAN HISTORY

That is history now. Genocides never happened. Except the ones committed by wypipo of course.

That cheating AI sounds right out of Endless Legend. Or Endless Space even, where they could have a hundred star systems with no instability (and don't have the happiness techs) but you as the player have full blown civil wars if you go above a small number of systems.
 

Fedora Master

STOP POSTING
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The deeper I look the dumber it gets. "Teutons" and "Austro-Hungarians" not even fucking cultures. Nor are "the Soviets" holy shit these people don't understand what words mean I guess
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,603
Yeah, this whole cultures thing is a mess and isn't getting enough ridicule. Not sure why people can be praising them for it with a straight face.

I think it's fairly obvious they struggled to fill in all the slots for each gameplay focus and at the same time maintian diversity. Donk Ovenload will be pleased that Australians made it as a culture (and they are considered the builder civ, of all things).
This just might prove what I said about their systems falling apart the further you get into the game. Later eras are so obviously half-baked, it looks like they ran out of steam and just decided to sod it and run with the first thing that came to their mind.
Doesn't help that there are only 10 slots per era and 7 different gameplay foci.

Just looking at some of the special units makes me scratch my head. E.g. German special is a Uboat (okay I guess), which is... an upgraded torpedo boat? That's completely different type of tech. Only thing they have in common is they use torpedoes.
Turks get a fucking Stealth Missile? Pajeets get UN troops? Barbican is now a unique building, and it's given to Poles (guess they weren't told the significance of John Paul II monuments). Some guys got fucking Gatling Elephants. I'm sure that's not all.

If you value your sanity, don't look too long at the civ mottos. You get the entire body of fucking literary classics and you get shit like: "When surrounded by wolves, swords must be drawn."
Not to mention the teenage-cringe Romans got: "Throw me to the wolves and I'll come leading the pack".

Not sure why people aren't prodding them more why fucking ancient cultures like India and China only appear in the contemporary period.

Speaking of Romans, I wonder, how did this image get through all the diversity officers.
I mean, isn't it the the kind of imagery nazis wank themselves to sleep with?
360

EDIT: Doesn't load, huh? It's on the wiki, the image Romans get in-game.
https://humankind.fandom.com/wiki/Romans

And don't get me started on them getting Praetorians to replace swordsmen as their special unit.
 
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Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,265
Location
Italy
there's a bug which freezes the grievances tab, it makes it empty and unresponsive. coincidentally, it's the same tab used when a war must end. if you attack or are attacked by an enemy suffering from this bug, the game is doomed.

also: all the units speak american english, even prehistoric, and as far as i noticed the unremarkable, very deja-vu-inducing ost doesn't change with eras.
back in my day in the videogame world you could be obsolete in 6 months. 20 years later we're going backward.
 
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spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,603
This game's war system is officially the most cretinous thing I've ever seen.
So, I'm fighting the war with Mauryans, they have an isolated city on my cosy island, not sure how they got there, might have assimilated an NPC tribe for it.
Anyways, I do a sneak attack because obviously they shat out all kinds of district and the whole area is walled up and I can't skirmish them for a casus belli. I wipe them out rather quickly, sow salt on everything in preparation for proper settlers to come,
a quick look to the diplomacy screen to see if I can milk them for anything else but all the options are greyed out.
So I forget about the whole ordeal, but after a few turns I get a popup. Apparently my people gave up the fight and were forced to surrender and the other guys get 2k gold in gibs.
I say, what in the name of the flying fuck...
 
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flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
3,198
This game's war system is officially the most cretinous thing I've ever seen.
So, I'm fighting the war with Mauryans, they have an isolated city on my cosy island, not sure how they got there, might have assimilated an NPC tribe for it.
Anyways, I do a sneak attack because obviously they shat out all kinds of district and the whole area is walled up. I wipe them out rather quickly, sow salt on everything in preparation for proper settlers to come,
a quick look to the diplomacy screen to see if I can milk them for anything else but all the options are greyed out.
So I forget about the whole ordeal, but after a few turns I get a popup. Apparently my people gave up the fight and were forced to surrender and the other guys get 2k gold in gibs.
I say, what in the name of the flying fuck...
It is trying to fix the "make a big blob and conquer the world" that most 4x games have.Except it is even more retarded.
Should have went with you choosing a plan that dictates what your goals are and making said goals tied to war score. Failing dictates logistics/morale in terms of damage/healing.It is that fucking simple.
Wanna pick a forward settle,pick that shit and have 5-10 turns to do it.
Wanna go Genghis,pick hat option and have a 100 turns to destroy your enemies while having to deal with juggling score since your goals are grand.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
19,467
Looked forward to this game. Such a shame that it turned out as it did. Worst 4X letdown for me since Beyond Earth.
 

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