Preview Hype Machine 1, Fallout fans Nil

[Naked Ninja]

See, this is the point. The people who are rabid have closed their minds to any kind of imaginative possibility. Anyone who is creative can come up with a decent number of reasons. Ancient humans, with nothing more than the wind, horses and their own bodies traveled the breadth of the planet. Yeah, its a post apocolyptic setting, and shit has been lost. But that doesn't mean there aren't ways and means. But you are actively looking for ways to shoot down the videos, so all you do is create reasons why they can't. Closed minded. Maybe they made or found a train? Did you all see the train on the intro screen to Van Buren? oh no, NOT CANON!

They didn't explore the glow? You mean the vast radioactive waste that kills people? Wow, awesome proof of your theories, so they, sensibly, won't risk death from massive amounts of radiation, that must mean they are apathetic to finding new tech/travelling!

 

[Section8]

See, this is the point. The people who are rabid have closed their minds to any kind of imaginative possibility.

Okay, that's a fair point, although it's not so much a closed mind as a predisposition toward "why?" as opposed to "why not?"

So anyway, here's an interesting bit of history I've learned today that is somewhat relevant.

Anyone who is creative can come up with a decent number of reasons.

That in itself is reason enough for concern.

They didn't explore the glow? You mean the vast radioactive waste that kills people? Wow, awesome proof of your theories, so they, sensibly, won't risk death from massive amounts of radiation, that must mean they are apathetic to finding new tech/travelling!

Well, they did try to explore the glow. A case in point that perhaps the Brotherhood Elders are pretty conservative even in their pursuit of technology, given that The Glow is the technological mecca of the known world, and also that perhaps the combat effectiveness of Brotherhood Paladins isn't quite to the superhuman standard the player is able to attain.

So I'm happy to concede that I'm probably being overly negative in trying to "disprove" theories and also that the Brotherhood could probably overcome the terrain to make an arduous crossing of the continent, but there are still several unlikelihoods.

The most significant one is the question of motivation, and aside from that there is a question of how effectively they could defend themselves from both hostiles and radiation while they made the trek.

In short, I think a BOS continental crossing would be such a stupendous achievement, and a great source of tension and conflict both internal and external. In fact, any plausible account of such a feat sounds more interesting by orders of magnitude than "you and your dad in DC".

So as such, I'm more than willing to discuss the idea and see what comes from it.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

See, this is the point. The people who are rabid have closed their minds to any kind of imaginative possibility.

Okay, that's a fair point, although it's not so much a closed mind as a predisposition toward "why?" as opposed to "why not?"

So anyway, here's an interesting bit of history I've learned today that is somewhat relevant.

Anyone who is creative can come up with a decent number of reasons.

That in itself is reason enough for concern.

They didn't explore the glow? You mean the vast radioactive waste that kills people? Wow, awesome proof of your theories, so they, sensibly, won't risk death from massive amounts of radiation, that must mean they are apathetic to finding new tech/travelling!

Well, they did try to explore the glow. A case in point that perhaps the Brotherhood Elders are pretty conservative even in their pursuit of technology, given that The Glow is the technological mecca of the known world, and also that perhaps the combat effectiveness of Brotherhood Paladins isn't quite to the superhuman standard the player is able to attain.

So I'm happy to concede that I'm probably being overly negative in trying to "disprove" theories and also that the Brotherhood could probably overcome the terrain to make an arduous crossing of the continent, but there are still several unlikelihoods.

The most significant one is the question of motivation, and aside from that there is a question of how effectively they could defend themselves from both hostiles and radiation while they made the trek.

In short, I think a BOS continental crossing would be such a stupendous achievement, and a great source of tension and conflict both internal and external. In fact, any plausible account of such a feat sounds more interesting by orders of magnitude than "you and your dad in DC".

So as such, I'm more than willing to discuss the idea and see what comes from it.

Actually, that last part would make a more interesting game than what bethesda has planned. You're a low level initiate within the brotherhoood, doing this and that, slowly (very slowly) rising through the ranks, either training to become a paladin, researching to become a scribe, or learning engineering to become a knight (or whatever that is) to rebuild the old world technology. All the while, turmoil is running throughout the upper eschelons of the Brotherhood. A small, but vocal minority of elders and high ranking paladins are becoming somewhat aggressive and expansionist, going against the very foundings of the brotherhood itself. Slowly, as the game progresses, the tension begins to spill into the lower ranks, and eventually, the brotherhood is drawn to the brink of what could be the most destructive conflict since the apocalypse. You are in a position to do something, or simply let events take their natural course. You can encourage the militaristic, fascist, or expansionist aggressive elders to take actions against the more conservative elders and paladins, etc. etc. etc. Now that might prove to be an interesting title. A community on the brink of war, where one man can make a difference and keep the populace together, possibly from turning brother against brother and killing one another. Imagine the fucking possibilities.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The most significant one is the question of motivation, and aside from that there is a question of how effectively they could defend themselves from both hostiles and radiation while they made the trek.

There's also the question of how they could develop large amounts of Power Armor for their squads, but you're addressing someone who is likely to champion artistic license as a defense of incoherent or farcical design, even against the unlikelihoods or impracticalities of using that kind of transportation. I'm not sure at what point zeppelins leave the farcical side of things and becomes a "decent reason", but hey, I'm sure someone could imagine fluffy bunnies suddenly dropped from the sky and instamagically offered the Brotherhood the means to do it - we just have to stop limiting our imaginations!


If we want to look at reasons for them leaving, there could be at least two found within the main games. At one point in Fallout, the Vault Dweller is talking to a Brotherhood of Steel member (John Maxson? not sure) about the ways of the Elders and Maxson (once again, not sure it's him) doesn't approve of them. The Elders want to avoid contact with the outside while Maxson feels there should be something done against the Mutant threat. Even when the Vault Dweller returns with information from the Glow and accepted into the BoS, some of its members didn't agree with him joining the ranks. There was a lot of tension between the Elders and Maxson (and I assume with those more loyal to Maxson than the Elders), so this schism could have quite likely resulted in a splinter cell being formed and moving away. The exact reason, however, seems to be unknown.

In Fallout 2, at the small BoS outpost located in San Fran (? again, not sure - been a while since I played both games) the BoS member there claims the Brotherhood is a shadow of its former self. Part of this could have been caused by the Enclave's sudden appearance and power, something which the Brotherhood could not possibly stand against. Those bunkers and outposts across the wasteland were likely created to gain more information (the San Fran outpost sent the Chosen One to get Vertibird plans, quite likely so they could develop some means to stand shoulder to shoulder, technology wise, with the Enclave) about this new menace but eventually may have just contributed to a dillution in their ranks.

I guess it could be reasoned that at some point, the appearance of the Enclave may have led to the falling out inside the BoS, with one faction either leaving to search for more or more advanced technology to bolster their abilities, or in disgust with the attitudes of the Elders who couldn't abandon their ways and adopt a more active stance against the Enclave's machinations.


This still doesn't make the trek across the wasteland any easier or entirely plausible, specially since technology in FOT wasn't radically different from that present in the first games.

 

[mister lamat]

you ladies are aware of things called 'boats', yea? you cut down a tree, dig out a hollow with a tool as simple as a sharpened rock, after which you can float on water like jesus.

there are literally millions of tributaries that feed the great lakes. wonder which way the water flows down the st. lawrence? probably towards the ocean, i'd wager.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

A land train or airship that could transport thousands of BoS members across the wastes, supplying food, water filtration systems, etc, and protection from the elements, would have to be friggin huge. A land train like that would probably have to be 30 or 40 feet in height, and easily two thousand feet in length, and 60 feet in width (if it's as many as 1000 BoS members). An airship or zepplin (unreliable form of transportation) would have to be friggin enormous. The amount of helium to be produced and pumped into the balloon alone would be more than the brotherhood could possibly stand. Hell, it might break their backs in terms of labor. Also, the consistent need for fuel, foods, water, etc, would be way too much to deal with. Both are rather implausable methods, especially considering the fact that the center US may just be one big radioactive dustbowl, with, as one of the NPC's in FO2 said, twisters miles wide at the base.

Edit: Boats? For christsakes, they know nothing about sea travel, and have from my knowledge, virtually nothing in terms of some sort of vessel that could possibly sustain that amount of men and women and children. Nor do they have the means to build such a vessel.

 

[mister lamat]

sea travel? there's a sea in the middle of the continental u.s.?

Hudson Bay Company. a multi-billion dollar empire built on the back of homemade, wood canoes.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

you ladies are aware of things called 'boats', yea? you cut down a tree, dig out a hollow with a tool as simple as a sharpened rock, after which you can float on water like jesus.

there are literally millions of tributaries that feed the great lakes. wonder which way the water flows down the st. lawrence? probably towards the ocean, i'd wager.

 

[mister lamat]

and of course, once one heads down a river you're completely unable to stop, ever... nay, once those rather gentle currents catch ya, you're utterly, utterly fucked.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Ok, fine, you misspoke, but can't realize you did so. That's fine. You lose, I win. You know why? Because I rape.

 

[mister lamat]

naw, it was just a really simple idea which required a gradeschool level of geographic awareness.

 

[Fez]

It's because he rapes, you see.

 

[mister lamat]

meh.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I have the popes blessing. It is obvious, I win. Do not bother to speak again on this subject.

 

[mister lamat]

i asked my daughter where the river by auntie caroline's house (which is infact the st. lawrence seaway) goes. she replied "to the 'lintic' ocean... jeez daddy!"

you just got owned by a four year-old. i doubt you could rape a bagel.

 

[Fez]

I bet he raped one and gave it to your four year old daughter as a tasty cream filled bagel. That's an average day for a Blackhartian. Don't underestimate him. As soon as you do you'll feel that rag close around your mouth and the whiff of chloroform will be the last thing you'll remember, if you are lucky.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna-Nna- I can't hear you. Only the president.

PS- It's not wise to bring daughters into the mix. But if you wanna go there, that's fine. We can talk daughters. I don't have any, but now I know you do. Blaaaaaa!

 

[mister lamat]

yep, i do

very proud pa. she's starting preschool this fall. crazy how fast they grow up.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

To quote Jack Nicholson: has she started her period.

 

[mister lamat]

no, probably not for another decade, give or take a year.

she has done quite well with learning punctuation though. the 'squiggly line n' dot make it a keschun'.

 

[Top Hat]

Imagine the fucking possibilities.

Isn't this going to be how Bethesda's going to do the game anyway?

 

[Naked Ninja]

@ Section 8 : Thank you Sorry I ripped you off a bit, I understand everyone is concerned about Fallout, and in all likelihood Beth WILL mess it up.
But sometimes it gets taken a bit too far.

Once you start to open your mind to it, creative people can come up with interesting possibilities. Perhaps the dude in power armor isn't actually legitimate BoS? Perhaps it is a splinter cell that wanted to more aggressively persue their goals as said above, or perhaps the armor was stolen by a traitor within the BoS who fled across country, or perhaps the BoS successfully acquired/recreated one of the heli-thingies and now their burgeoning power and mobility is a growing threat to everyone else or... etc etc.

 

[kingcomrade]

Something about Bethesda makes me think that such subtlety wouldn't occur to them.

 

[Excrément]

Maybe it will be Real-Time and Turn-Based. Like an opption you choose at the beginning.
It worked quite well for M.A.X 2. Even if I think that could be quite hard to implement in a RPG.

And maybe the day Fallout 3 is released, tiny little monkeys will start flying out of our asses, causing all kinds of shenanigans.

in order to brag a little, it seems I was not that wrong according to what the neogaf guy said (even if it's not very clear so far)

 

[Vault Dweller]

Real time with pause passes for turn-based these days?