Preview Hype Machine 1, Fallout fans Nil

[DarkSign]

Stereotypical anti-codex drivel

Oh well, VD beat me to it. Scroll back to where I predicted such thoughtless comments. It seems some people think that being anti-anti-crap is the new hip thing to do without putting any thought into it.

 

[mister lamat]

being aloof to what some other folks on another website say about a video game ain't exactly 'the new black', hoss.

 

[Vault Dweller]

...what some other folks on another website say about a video game ...

You mean stuff like previews, reviews, first impressions, etc?

 

[mister lamat]

yea. exactly that. you need to learn the art of spin, pookie.

i think i'll get baked and play some civ4. with beyond the sword coming out soon i wanna sharpen up

 

[Vault Dweller]

i think i'll get baked and play some civ4.

Keep us posted.

 

[Gambler]

Gambler here proves my point.

What point is that?

This one?

You're all rabid.

It's not a point, it's a banal assignment of blame.

You're all convinced the game will suck.

My god, aren't you righteous? Aren't you worthy of admiration for nobly sacrificing yourself to protect Moral Principles from "all" of us, rabid infidels?

 

[aboyd]

I don't think Bethesda will slaughter the series, but I do think it will produce something highly unoriginal and uncreative.

Sounds like they're making good progress, then.

 

[SimpleComplexity]

That teaser trailer trailer teaser teaser was pretty surprisingly better then expected, but i must say i had very low expectations, so it`s understandable.

The only part i am looking forward to, even if it`s an FPS, to wear some of these powerarmors and sound like a breathing Darth Vader. It`s perfect in combination with the father Liam Neeson, steal my ideas, but do a worthy parody.

 

[aboyd]

You're all convinced the game will suck.

My god, aren't you righteous? Aren't you worthy of admiration for nobly sacrificing yourself to protect Moral Principles from "all" of us, rabid infidels?

Whatever he may be, he is also partially right. Some (not all) of the posters here are coming off like whiners. Just pulling back and taking my best shot at an objective view of this topic, some of us sound like utter pussies who need their mommies because the game isn't juuuuuuuussst right.

::pout::

I try to not be crude or blunt with my posts, but the honest truth is that I think some of you need to regrow your balls. This thread is the equivalent of a dozen women up on chairs shrieking, "MOUSE!"

Not all of you, though.

 

[Rat Keeng]

I just think most people would respect Bethesda more, if they were going with their vision of how Fallout should be, without trying to cater to a specific audience, as they've done so many times before. It's this total lack of vision, and their appearant dependency on popular opinion, that has caused them to spiral down into this abyss of bad quality and poor decision making, and there doesn't seem to be a head strong person to pull them all out of it.

Bethesda's vision of a Fallout game, however terrifying it might be, would be better than them just pasting together a bunch of symbolic objects made popular through the original Fallout. To be honest though, I'm not above enjoying a bit of post-apocalyptic cinematry inspired by Fallout, but with what the public currently knows about FO3, how can anyone not see through a stunt like this?

 

[kingcomrade]

Bethesda is reporting for duty!!

 

[Section8]

Section8 : Rabid nitpickers indeed, Gambler here proves my point.

Actually, he's made one of the most intelligent criticisms so far:

Meh. Aren't teasers supposed to interest people somehow?

He's exactly right. Shouldn't the be something to blow our minds and let speculation run rampant across the intarnets? The buzz after the trailer is pretty much exactly what it was before. "ZOMG FPS or TB/ISO?"

Bethesda gave us this when they should have given us this. If they fail at something as simple as a teaser, what does that imply?

Read back through this thread. Now there is a bunch of comments about how they are trying too hard to copy Fallout 1, and this just proves they have no hope. There just isn't any winning scenario for Bethesda here. No matter how that teaser came out, there was a predestined 7 pages of bitching waiting from the Codex.

I'd say you're right, but that's just as much the fault of Bethesda being as predictable as we are. But the "no winning scenario" argument is bullshit. The reaction to most of the image teasers has been pretty positive. Particularly the "Paradise Falls" one, which definitely has a Fallout vibe to it, while not being a by-the-numbers rehash of something that already exists in Fallout.

As for "proves they no hope", I'll agree that's a tad extreme. I'd go with "yet to prove they have any hope."

What the teaser suggests is that there's either a serious shortage of originality and creativity at Bethesda, or they're being over-conscious of not offending Fallout fans (yet). Neither is a positive.

Holkins was talking about perspective in his post, but I'm not even talking about anything that significant here.

No, Holkins is essentially saying that the only important elements of Fallout as far as he is concerned are the setting and the dynamics of the game world. But he also suggests that turn-based combat, on of the core aspects of gameplay, was an "artifact of its time" and could be quite easily done away with.

Is it really that unreasonable for those of us who value both the setting and the gameplay to want both?

People are complaining that the guy in the vid is BOS. Oh no! They've reused one of the previous games factions, the general Codex belief that they have no creativity is confirmed!

No, the concern is the fact that with Fallout 3 set on the east coast, how does a faction confined to the west coast (and midwest if you include Tactics) get to the east?

So in short, people are worried that they're transplanting an iconic group from the original Fallouts because they're more interested in marking off the checklist of "what the fans want" than any coherence of setting or narrative. The Deus Ex Machina is not a positive literary tool.

But I'm willing to bet if they had nothing related to the originals, there would have been bitching about how they are moving away from canon or something.

We've already been through some of that with some the concept art - "Looks very nice, and post-apocalyptic, but where's the Fallout?" So you're almost right, if you discount the fact that in the concept art where cheesy retro-futurism was present -- without being a collage of pre-existing fallout icons -- was well received.

Admit it. You're all rabid. You're all convinced the game will suck. Nothing can really sway you. It doesn't matter what they show, each new smidgeon of news will result in another 8 pages of nitpicking. Even if it does turn out to be turn based and isometric. You'll find a way to complain about some aspect. The turn based will be "done wrong", or whatever.

You're exactly right. I'm convinced the game will suck. If Bethesda manage to convince me otherwise, I'll eat my words, and gladly change my tune. The problem is, nothing they're showing has been positive. It's either been negative, or simply underwhelming.

If they copy the original setting/game you will complain about it. If they introduce new elements, whether setting or gameplay/input, you'll complain about it. You know it's true, I know its true.

Completely wrong. We don't want a direct copy, and we don't want elements that don't fit the setting. There's a middle ground here.

 

[Kotario]

We've already been through some of that with some the concept art - "Looks very nice, and post-apocalyptic, but where's the Fallout?" So you're almost right, if you discount the fact that in the concept art where cheesy retro-futurism was present -- without being a collage of pre-existing fallout icons -- was well received.

At least for the Paradise Falls piece, it was somewhat of a collage of Googie architecture images instead.

 

[MF]

Why are people associating power armor with the Brotherhood? It was issued by the military just before the bombs fell, so there's bound to be some more. The 'troops in canada' wore power armor, too.

I hope this guy's not a Brotherhood of Steel character.

 

[Jora]

Why are people associating power armor with the Brotherhood? It was issued by the military just before the bombs fell, so there's bound to be some more. The 'troops in canada' wore power armor, too.

I hope this guy's not a Brotherhood of Steel character.

If you look closely, you can see that the guy has the BoS logo on his breast plate.

 

[mister lamat]

Keep us posted.

decided to play Fall of Heaven instead of vanilla civ. chose the Bannor, who have the best conquest civic in the game, crusade.

went with a 'huge' gameworld, so as of yesterday i was fighting a three front war against the ashen veil with the gnomes and eloihm as allies. sabthiel has the... axe of much orciness... he is a monster... all the wicked shall fall.

 

[Mr.E]

I just think most people would respect Bethesda more, if they were going with their vision of how Fallout should be, without trying to cater to a specific audience, as they've done so many times before. It's this total lack of vision, and their appearant dependency on popular opinion, that has caused them to spiral down into this abyss of bad quality and poor decision making, and there doesn't seem to be a head strong person to pull them all out of it.

Bethesda's vision of a Fallout game, however terrifying it might be, would be better than them just pasting together a bunch of symbolic objects made popular through the original Fallout. To be honest though, I'm not above enjoying a bit of post-apocalyptic cinematry inspired by Fallout, but with what the public currently knows about FO3, how can anyone not see through a stunt like this?

O RLY? What makes you think they're not respecting their own vision of the game first and foremost? Especially considering this quote and others like it:

We’re fans, we’re passionate about what we do. We go on a crusade to make the best game we can. We make the game we would run to the store and buy, we argue, we debate, we scream, we stay up all night, we clap and cheer the highs and curse the lows.

HOW DARE YOU DOUBT THEM???

 

[One Wolf]

Yeah! When have they ever led us astray???

 

[Naked Ninja]

No, the concern is the fact that with Fallout 3 set on the east coast, how does a faction confined to the west coast (and midwest if you include Tactics) get to the east?

Oh please. In ancient times merchants and suchlike would travel across asia, from europe, in pursuit of trade goods. So guys in a post apocolyptic setting lose the ability to walk/ride? Nevermind they might have vehicles stashed or something. Maybe they found a helicopter. Like the one that was in the FO2 intro video? Nit.Picking.

He's exactly right. Shouldn't the be something to blow our minds and let speculation run rampant across the intarnets? The buzz after the trailer is pretty much exactly what it was before. "ZOMG FPS or TB/ISO?"

Wait wait wait. The general codex reaction to PR/hype is hatred. And now you are saying you are dissapointed by the lack of awesome buzz? No wonder you are so cynical, you lust after exactly what you hate.

What the teaser suggests is that there's either a serious shortage of originality and creativity at Bethesda, or they're being over-conscious of not offending Fallout fans (yet)

This is where the rabid part comes in. You're overanalysing the teaser. Before the teaser, before the website, at E3 bethesda showed a yellow hazard sign thingy with Fallout 3 on it. You could have said the exact same thing, "Oh how unoriginal, a hazard sign!" and it would have been just as silly. All you can draw from that vid is they have a wasted city and power armor, perhaps a recurring faction from one of the previous 2 games. Maybe a schoolbus. The rest is just you projecting your negative preconceptions onto it. Like I said, it didn't matter how it came out, you would have found a negative light to cast it in.

Is it really that unreasonable for those of us who value both the setting and the gameplay to want both?

No. But if Beth release a game that is 1st person and real time, yet maintains all the great role-playing aspects of the FO games, what will your reaction be? Personally, I think you'll spit at them. They ARE going to produce a different game from the original. They are going to rethink some things, or make different design decisions. For some of you (most of you), that will be enough for you to dismiss it completely. If things like them having power armor in the vid is enough for this kind of reaction, any more significant change will send a lot of you into a frothing rabid fit.

My god, aren't you righteous?

You all get your jollies mocking Bethesda. I get my jollies mocking you. Turnaround is fair play mate. Seriously though, how many times has the Codex mocked members of other forums who, for example, enjoyed Oblivion? How many times have they ripped apart or mocked other people for their opinions? Self righteous indeed. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

 

[kingcomrade]

No, the concern is the fact that with Fallout 3 set on the east coast, how does a faction confined to the west coast (and midwest if you include Tactics) get to the east?

Didn't you play Fallout Tactics? They took the dirigible.

edit- I so could've gone with the Cheech and Chong answer on this one, too.

 

[Section8]

Oh please. In ancient times merchants and suchlike would travel across asia, from europe, in pursuit of trade goods. So guys in a post apocolyptic setting lose the ability to walk/ride? Nevermind they might have vehicles stashed or something. Maybe they found a helicopter. Like the one that was in the FO2 intro video? Nit.Picking.

Well, there are trade caravans and such in Fallout, but they don't range very far. Probably has something to do with the terrain being far more hazardous than the ancient world. In any case, what's the motivation? The BOS are already struggling, and that's with a remarkably well appointed facility that suits their needs. An ardous trek across the nation seems like folly to me.

As for vehicles, the oil shortage that more or less sparked the nuclear war that devestated the world renders the vast majority useless. The rest run on batteries, which aren't exactly commonplace themselves.

And the Vertibirds? (Fallout 2's helicopters) There are a lot of things in Fallout 2 that defy explanation and are pretty implausible within the world. Since I'm so rabid, I'd rather see a lot of Fallout 2's silliness retracted.

Now that's nitpickery, and sheer Fallout geekdom. A lot different from saying "BOS presence on the East Coast seems unlikely, and seems to imply that Bethesda are more interested in ticking off a checklist of Fallout icons than the coherence of setting we all love."

Wait wait wait. The general codex reaction to PR/hype is hatred. And now you are saying you are dissapointed by the lack of awesome buzz? No wonder you are so cynical, you lust after exactly what you hate.

No, read what I wrote again, and you'll see no evidence of me wanting hype or being disappointed by the lack of it. I made the observation that Bethesda failed to do any teasing with their teaser. Maybe they just missed the point, but I think it's more likely that this is the spearhead of a cynical PR campaign to "win Fallout fans over by showing them what they want".

Maybe it isn't as cynical as I think, and is done with the best of intentions, but Bethesda's track record suggests otherwise.

This is where the rabid part comes in. You're overanalysing the teaser. Before the teaser, before the website, at E3 bethesda showed a yellow hazard sign thingy with Fallout 3 on it. You could have said the exact same thing, "Oh how unoriginal, a hazard sign!" and it would have been just as silly. All you can draw from that vid is they have a wasted city and power armor, perhaps a recurring faction from one of the previous 2 games. Maybe a schoolbus. The rest is just you projecting your negative preconceptions onto it. Like I said, it didn't matter how it came out, you would have found a negative light to cast it in.

Come off it. The hazard sign may lack a certain spark, but it's not worth mentioning. However, I think you're being naive if you take the teaser exclusively at face value, and parroting Fallout icons at best proves that Bethesda can recreate a few obvious elements of Fallout's visuals.

In other words, it proves very little, and after Oblivion, Bethesda have a lot of work to do if they want to prove themselves worthy in the eyes of the Fallout faithful.

No. But if Beth release a game that is 1st person and real time, yet maintains all the great role-playing aspects of the FO games, what will your reaction be? Personally, I think you'll spit at them.

We'll see. I'd be willing to play that sort of game, given that I'm a huge fan of Bloodlines, and rank System Shock 2 almost on a par with Fallout. But "all the great role-playing aspects" are only part of what I want, so it would be disappointing.

I'm also skeptical of their ability to create compelling FPS gameplay. So to sum up my preferences:

"True" successor to Fallout
Fallout FPS with strong FPS gameplay and strong RP
-----
Fallout FPS with weak FPS gameplay and strong RP
Fallout FPS with strong FPS gameplay and weak RP

I'd willingly buy the first two. I probably wouldn't bother with the second two, but strong RP elements might just be enough to sway me. But as I said earlier, Oblivion has left them with a lot to prove so for now, I expect the worst.

They ARE going to produce a different game from the original. They are going to rethink some things, or make different design decisions. For some of you (most of you), that will be enough for you to dismiss it completely. If things like them having power armor in the vid is enough for this kind of reaction, any more significant change will send a lot of you into a frothing rabid fit.

Actually, have you seen many people make mention of the reworked Power Armour in the clip? If anything, most comments have been positive to the tune of "Looks more at home in a post-apocalyptic world than the original."

Likewise, the most significant comments about the aircraft carrier were to do with the wacky scale of it and the physics involved in keeping it upright. I don't recall anyone saying "That couldn't possibly be in Fallout! It has to go!"

Most of us are resigned to the notion that Fallout 3 is going to be a very different beast to Fallout, and what seems to be a PR push to convince us otherwise makes us wary. As I've already said, if Bethesda prove me wrong, I'll sing their praises. But I really don't expect that to happen.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

Well, there are trade caravans and such in Fallout, but they don't range very far. Probably has something to do with the terrain being far more hazardous than the ancient world. In any case, what's the motivation?

The raison d’être of the BoS is the acquisition and control of technology so it stands to reason they’d go any place it’s to be found. They’re also one of the few Fallout factions that has the technology, muscle and motivation to travel widely. While manner in which the BoS was transplanted in Fallout: Tactics was quite contrived, there’s any number other, more plausible, scenarios for explaining a BoS presence on the East Coast.

 

[Claw]

No. While their declared goal is the preservation of technology, they have never made any great effort in the actual aquisition of new technology.

According to canon, they become increasingly withdrawn and there is no indication of any expeditions. Heck, they didn't even explore the Glow in Fallout, and you expect them to travel all the way to the east coast? Why? For some mysterious EC tech? That doesn't make any sense. If they wanted to aquire technology, they could find it in any number of places on the west coast.

Also, there is no indication that they even possess any advanced vehicles. Do you expect them to simply march to the east coast in their power armors?

 

[mister lamat]

they have humvees and apcs. probably a few of them given all the bunkers they had set up in fot.

continuing with my game synopsis:

after smashing the rest of the continent, which comprised of the clan of embers and the calabim, with the help of the lurpichurp (go go golems) i decided to focus on naval technology for a bit and see about exploring the rest of the world. up until that point, i had been rushing for 'The Order' and whatever the hell gets ya 'fire pillar' for the bishops. seriously, the spell is pure sex.

however, i'm beginning to think that i may have been a bit remiss now. i came across the mercurians first, though they were stagnating on a small island. basium may be one helluva footslogger but his doesn't seem all that interested in taking to the seas. encounter two, hannah the irin... the bad hannah the irin. sometimes she doesn't push for 'message from the deep', other times she does. in this game she had, as well as ramping up her naval tech to a level that honestly made my tiny galleys seem foolish. i really doubt the relationship is going to end well.

the rest of the second continent consisted of ljosalfar, down to three cities in a corner, the balseraphs, sheaim, doviello and infernals. after a bit of sweetening, the elves finally accepted and open border agreement and i was able to land troops. with some stealthy recon it comes to my attention that the elves were the dominant society for a good while, but have now lost seven cities.

since i'm using the 'Crusade' civic i can't say a damn thing to the other civs... no matter though... this game is all about holy retribution, Bannor style. i've pushed back the stacks on the ljosalfar borders hoping they'll retake some of their cities. i don't have the economy or naval tech to mount any sort of invasion yet and i'm pretty damn sure the rest of team ugly is gonna come calling some time soon...

 

[kingcomrade]

Power armor is supposed to be able to run at high speeds for long distances. Heinlein's power armor, anyways...

Fallout 2 is not canon.