I don't like Planescape: Torment that much.

[Surf Solar]

I enjoyed Torments fighting much more than IWD (good game though) and BGI/II (don't like 'em).

May I ask you why? Almost every encounter in Torment was against 2~10 mobs of the same type. I don't even remember fighting a group with mages and archers on the backline.

It's a good question, I don't even really know why. For one, the pacing in Torment was much faster, fights didn't last that long. I didn't have to use that much "buffing" before each battle, didn't have to rest so often. The animations were faster, the tohit chance was higher (I think?) the feedback was better. Yes, there was a lack of different encounters, but just from the "feel" PST felt much better and responsive. BG I/II felt always forced and I had to "suffer infinite torment" through the endless combat encounters there which just became boring, especially if you already loathe tiresome RtwP combat. Thousands of low level trashmobs just placed to annoy you while you are on quests with no real difference how you solve them. Sorry no, this is just not my game. :/ Torment had very little combat, but I somehow always enjoyed it. The only rageworthy fight was when TNO came back from the underground Prison and could fight this daemon creature at the west of ruined Curst. I sat hours upon hours to defeat the beast.

 

[Excidium]

I enjoyed Torments fighting much more than IWD (good game though) and BGI/II (don't like 'em).

May I ask you why? Almost every encounter in Torment was against 2~10 mobs of the same type. I don't even remember fighting a group with mages and archers on the backline.

It's a good question, I don't even really know why. For one, the pacing in Torment was much faster, fights didn't last that long. I didn't have to use that much "buffing" before each battle, didn't have to rest so often. The animations were faster, the tohit chance was higher (I think?) the feedback was better. Yes, there was a lack of different encounters, but just from the "feel" PST felt much better and responsive. BG I/II felt always forced and I had to "suffer infinite torment" through the endless combat encounters there which just became boring, especially if you already loathe tiresome RtwP combat. Thousands of low level trashmobs just placed to annoy you while you are on quests with no real difference how you solve them. Sorry no, this is just not my game. :/ Torment had very little combat, but I somehow always enjoyed it. The only rageworthy fight was when TNO came back from the underground Prison and could fight this daemon creature at the west of ruined Curst. I sat hours upon hours to defeat the beast.

I see. And I have to agree that PST combat is better than BG1/2 because there's less combat.

But I liked the IWD combat. Not enough to finish it, though.

 

[piydek]

Don't undersell the ToEE story - there are many things related to the recruitable characters that while not classically considered narrative are.

ToEE was unplayable for me because of completely retarded dialogues and absolutely no story. I know those aren't supposed to be its strong points, but i need at least something in that department to want to play the damn game.

 

[Imbecile]

I found arcanums combat to be bloody awful. In fairness this is compensated in other ways, but if good combat is a focus, I'd avoid it.

 

[Phage]

I personally thought the dialogues/concepts in the final area of the game were part of what made it to incredibly memorable.

Of course, the build up is what made it work so well.

 

[kingcomrade]

Combat in PS:T is terrible and I used cheats. Infinity Engine combat was always really boring and clunky, just ignore it.

ToEE was unplayable for me because of completely retarded dialogues and absolutely no story.

Every time I think about playing ToEE again I go "oh wait hommlet"

 

[Serious_Business]

Bad combat? More like bad game. This arbitrary distinction between combat and "the rest of the gameplay" that is supposed to save certain games needs to stop. It's good combat or it's shit, because rpgs are wargames. Conclusion : rpgs are shitty games. Wake up codex edit : /mondblut convert

 

[J1M]

Is it a good cRPG? Yes, amazing in fact and I absolutely love the dialog and writing. Do I like it? No, I don't. I guess I'm just not a story fag and I'm more of a dungeon crawler/fighting fag. I enjoyed Fallout 1/ Fallout 2 significantly more than PS:T. I need good combat along with my relatively enjoyable combat system. Perhaps I'm judging PS:T too soon since I haven't met Ravel in person yet, but I think it's shitty combat design has been sorta of a downer for me. The classes are too basic and most of the encounters are too simple.

With this in mind, I need some suggestions on which route to go once I finally finish PS:T. Here are some games I am considering.

-Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.

-Temple of Elemental Evil (I've heard that with the proper patches from the Circle of something website the game runs well and has an excellent combat system).

-Icewind Dale 1.

Keep in mind that I still want good story/dialog along with enjoyable combat.

I would suggest you merely patch ToEE and play through it without the mod that changes the things you won't notice have been changed because you have no frame of reference.

 

[J1M]

Don't undersell the ToEE story - there are many things related to the recruitable characters that while not classically considered narrative are.

ToEE was unplayable for me because of completely retarded dialogues and absolutely no story. I know those aren't supposed to be its strong points, but i need at least something in that department to want to play the damn game.

Sure, whatever, but for those people who wanted a 3rd edition D&D game that wasn't real-time bullshit there isn't really another option. And ToEE did that very well.

Any game that lets me build a spiked chain fighter for tripping and light spider webs on fire to damage enemies gets a free pass in a few other areas. I will also note that unlike most games, I actually used its crafting system because it wasn't homo gay.

 

[SCO]

Don't undersell the ToEE story - there are many things related to the recruitable characters that while not classically considered narrative are.

ToEE was unplayable for me because of completely retarded dialogues and absolutely no story. I know those aren't supposed to be its strong points, but i need at least something in that department to want to play the damn game.

Right and there was nothing worthwhile with the deposed priest of the air temple you find lost in one of the nodes, who you can help in his vengeance, or infiltrating the temple for one or the other or both factions, ambushing them both, or making them fight themselves eachother, or that lolth priest dude betraying you or if you didn't went for his shit, getting two greater spiders when you exited (just when you thought you were safe) or if you were even more unlucky, getting the evil monk and barbarian to ambush you with 10 other dudes if you mentioned the moathouse to them but didn't take them on (after all the fights mind you), or nothing worthwhile in getting a ogre companion or nothing worthwhile in condemning a annoying noble to become a vampire, or bypassing the whole temple (almost) by secret passages going directly to the skull and the last level etc etc etc.

Go eat a bag of dicks, and i say this as one of the biggest torment fanboys around (played it seven times no joke).
ToEE is >>> IWD2

 

[kingcomrade]

Bad combat? More like bad game.

More like bad combat.

This arbitrary distinction between combat and "the rest of the gameplay" that is supposed to save certain games needs to stop.

Why? It makes sense in a lot of cases.

It's good combat or it's shit, because rpgs are wargames

Who is being arbitrary now? Is this something you just decided?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I thought PST was overrated too. Some of the quests are quite good, and there's a lot of good dialogue, but the combat is atrocious and I'm sorry but the way the main story line develops is really bad. The last few areas are just BG-style maps full of mobs you have to kill (I'm thinking of Curst and the outer planes). I can't believe some people think this is the best RPG ever.

It doesn't have anything on Fallout or Fallout 2.

 

[MicoSelva]

The strongest point of PST is its creativity overload. There are so many cool ideas everywhere that You never really know what You will find around the corner. When I played it for the first time, I felt excited every time I was about to talk to someone new - and it rarely ended up in a disappointment.

Also the way all these ideas interconnect with each other is amazing. It's easy to make a "creative dump" and leave it like that, but here it's all made into a coherent whole that is hard to grasp all at once. Many layers can only be noticed on a second playthrough, when You aready have the big picture in mind.

Not everybody will be equally amazed by this, I guess, and for people who are not, the game might seem rather dull most of the time. To be honest, I actually liked the gameplay a lot too (mostly because of that "what will I encounter this time?" feel) and combat did not bother me. It did feel a bit clunky, even compared to Baldur's Gate, but I still was able to make my characters do what I wanted from them. Most of the time.

Anyway, if You don't enjoy the gameplay, You might still want to force Yourself to finish the game just to know what all the fuss is about. Or watch an LP. I'd say the story alone is enough of a reason to play on.

 

[Bitcher]

lol fagcomrade got trolled hard

 

[Azarkon]

I thought PST was overrated too. Some of the quests are quite good, and there's a lot of good dialogue, but the combat is atrocious and I'm sorry but the way the main story line develops is really bad. The last few areas are just BG-style maps full of mobs you have to kill (I'm thinking of Curst and the outer planes). I can't believe some people think this is the best RPG ever.

It doesn't have anything on Fallout or Fallout 2.

Curst had a satisfying conclusion. Not sure about the outer planes since I don't even remember them. My memory of PST is like Lower Wards -> Upper Wards -> Ravel -> Curst -> Trias -> Fortress of Regrets.

PST is a game of memorable moments. The rest are forgettable hack-n-slash garbage. The most poignant moment for me was TNO's talk with his other incarnations in the Fortress, with the clincher being his realization of who he was (an extremely well-done moment, having just the right balance to leave an emotional impact without straying into melodrama).

After that the game could really do no wrong, but it did manage a great finale, too, though the climax of the game, at least for me, was in the conversation with the other incarnations.

Knowing how stats affect the game, I think PST is a game meant to be experienced several times, with the player discovering something new each time. If you go through it the first time, as many people recommend, with a mage maxing out on INT and WIS you get a "complete" experience but without the sense of the game's intricacies. Some degree of accomplishment is lost in being spoiled in that manner.

PST really is a game that should have set the standard for RPG aesthetics. Instead it was the first and last game of its kind, at least up to this point.

 

[el Supremo]

Confusing... the recent trend is...

 

[Lee_Stavros]

Is it a good cRPG? Yes, amazing in fact and I absolutely love the dialog and writing. Do I like it? No, I don't. I guess I'm just not a story fag and I'm more of a dungeon crawler/fighting fag. I enjoyed Fallout 1/ Fallout 2 significantly more than PS:T. I need good combat along with my relatively enjoyable combat system. Perhaps I'm judging PS:T too soon since I haven't met Ravel in person yet, but I think it's shitty combat design has been sorta of a downer for me. The classes are too basic and most of the encounters are too simple.

When PS:T was released it was quite unique in terms of RPGs. It is like you said heavily focused on dialogue and questing. Although i didn't find the combat too horrible.
A long time ago, this was one of the best RPGs of all time, but like most of the older classics, it has not aged well. Playing a game simply for the pleasure of nostalgia isn't the same thing as playing a game because you want to be entertained. And needless to say, the writing isn't deep nor intellectual in any way.

With this in mind, I need some suggestions on which route to go once I finally finish PS:T. Here are some games I am considering.

-Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.

I myself would call this a very mediocre game, it had enormous potential but failed to deliver.

-Temple of Elemental Evil (I've heard that with the proper patches from the Circle of something website the game runs well and has an excellent combat system).

-Icewind Dale 1.

Keep in mind that I still want good story/dialog along with enjoyable combat.

I would recommend TOEE instead of IWD.
They are both dungeon crawlers, but while the latter used the tedious pause mechanism that is IE,
TOEE is actually one of the best T-B tactics game ever released.

 

[oneself]

Couldn't finish PST. Nice story, dull gameplay.

 

[1eyedking]

Co8 mod has cloud's sword in it, avoid like the plague.


Not to mention ToEE is shit overall, avoid like the plague, unless you enjoy whacking bugbears for hundreds of hours.

Arcanum is also p. terribad. Have fun with your broken character system and horrendous combat. If you want 'good combat', Arcanum is something you should avoid at all cost.


IWD, however, is p cool M:

What this man said.

I think I will replay it soon, it's been long since I played a game with both good art direction and gameplay.

I can also understand why some people dislike PS:T and The Witcher. There's not much gaming in either, but they're solid entertainment for their other assets.

 

[sirfink]

First Arcanum and now this?! Next week's thread: "I dunno dudes, Fallout kinda sucked."

 

[Clockwork Knight]

First Arcanum and now this?! Next week's thread: "I dunno dudes, Fallout kinda sucked."

Yeah, I shudder to think about someone not sharing the hivemind's opinion.

But enough of that. Let's go to Gamefaqs and mock some people for not accepting the fact that someone doesn't share the hivemind's opinion.

 

[Wyrmlord]

With this in mind, I need some suggestions on which route to go once I finally finish PS:T. Here are some games I am considering.

-Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.

-Temple of Elemental Evil (I've heard that with the proper patches from the Circle of something website the game runs well and has an excellent combat system).

-Icewind Dale 1.

Keep in mind that I still want good story/dialog along with enjoyable combat.

Stop asking our opinions on what games to play and search something yourself.

Anyway, why the story slash dialogue in your post? You feel the two are one and the same? Many RPGs advance the story not through dialogue but object/clue finding.

Examples include finding a chess piece hidden in somebody's backyard, finding a door underneath a waterfall, finding a chessboard near that door, using the chesspiece on that chessboard, unlocking a whole subterranean fortress, finding a letter where a man admits to having the hots for his sister.

I won't reveal which game it was (do some game hunting yourself!), but each step of the above is much harder than just perusing a set of dialogue lines to find the right branching path. Had this been the model for RPGs rather than dialogue trees, we would have seen a much different and a much more superior genre.

By the way, you know which was the last RPG which often used object/clue finding as much as or moreso than dialogue to advance the plot? Torment.

 

[SCO]

It's BaK. Duh.

 

[Ninja Cartographer]

that lolth priest dude ... if you didn't went for his shit, getting two greater spiders when you exited (just when you thought you were safe) or if you were even more unlucky, getting the evil monk and barbarian to ambush you with 10 other dudes if you mentioned the moathouse to them but didn't take them on (after all the fights mind you),

These two are Co8 (the latter hinted in the p&p module)
Lareth actually has another scenario in the mod, really blew my mind when I first discovered it.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Stop asking our opinions on what games to play and search something yourself.

-Why should I not ask the opinions of others? Just because someone gives me their opinion doesn't mean I'm going to follow it.

Anyway, why the story slash dialogue in your post? You feel the two are one and the same? Many RPGs advance the story not through dialogue but object/clue finding.

-Can a good story have bad dialog? If it can, then aren't we in a sense implying that dialog is not an aspect of the story?

Examples include finding a chess piece hidden in somebody's backyard, finding a door underneath a waterfall, finding a chessboard near that door, using the chesspiece on that chessboard, unlocking a whole subterranean fortress, finding a letter where a man admits to having the hots for his sister.

-Sounds like Myst.

I won't reveal which game it was (do some game hunting yourself!), but each step of the above is much harder than just perusing a set of dialogue lines to find the right branching path. Had this been the model for RPGs rather than dialogue trees, we would have seen a much different and a much more superior genre.

-I agree with that point

By the way, you know which was the last RPG which often used object/clue finding as much as or moreso than dialogue to advance the plot? Torment.

-Which is something I do enjoy about the game.