Icewind Dale series compared to the Baldur's Gate series

[Murk]

Pretty much what I spent the first 20 minutes of BG 2 doing when playing as a to-mage-dual, forgetting and rememorizing. Thieves guild had those training doors/traps with locks which were nice xp as well.

 

[Stokowski]

NWN was the only real 3e rpg. Yes it sucked for single player and as an rpg, but it implemented the rules well.

I think some rabid TOEE fanboys may disagree with you there...

... it implemented the rules well for a non-grid-based system.

 

[Cynic]

NWN was the only real 3e rpg. Yes it sucked for single player and as an rpg, but it implemented the rules well.

 

[Roguey]

NWN was the only real 3e rpg. Yes it sucked for single player and as an rpg, but it implemented the rules well.

I think some rabid TOEE fanboys may disagree with you there...

ToEE was 3.5 so he's technically right if you don't count Ruins of Myth Drannor.

 

[Karmapowered]

BG2 > BG (tutu) > IWD >> IWD2.

My tolerance towards bad pathfinding and cumbersome interfaces is no longer what it used to be.

 

[Stella Brando]

O.U.S.G.R.P.G.C.S.
(Official United States Government
Role Playing Game Comparison System)....... Baldur's Gate.........Baldur's Gate II.....Icewind Dale

I can walk around wherever I want.................Yes.....................Somewhat.............Nope

Thieves can join thieves guilds,
rangers can live in a forest, etc.......................Nope...................Yep.......................Nope

I can do this quest now, that quest later..........Yep.....................Yep.......................Nope

I can enjoy varied locations, not fucking
dungeons all the time......................................Yep.....................Not Bad................Not good

There's actual characters - not just John
the Thief, Bob the Cleric, etc............................Yep......................Yep......................Nope

I can do something interesting, not
just fucking fight all the time............................Yep......................Yep......................Hahahaha You flyboys crack me up

My ranger could track the macguffin,
while my theif could steal it, etc........................No.......................Don't think so.......No

I played the game twice and it was
totally different................................................No.......................Yes......................Doubt it, not gonna try

The storyline is more involved than
a Xena episode................................................Not too much.......Yes.......................No



Now thats a game world.

 

[Infinitron]

Well, I guess we know now that Stalin Brando isn't "Wyrmlord III".

Or is he?

 

[TheNizzo]

Now thats a game world.

enjoy you're pussy combat encounters worldfag

 

[SwiftCrack]

O.U.S.G.R.P.G.C.S.
(Official United States Government
Role Playing Game Comparison System)....... Baldur's Gate.........Baldur's Gate II.....Icewind Dale

I can walk around wherever I want.................Yes.....................Somewhat.............Nope

Thieves can join thieves guilds,
rangers can live in a forest, etc.......................Nope...................Yep.......................Nope

I can do this quest now, that quest later..........Yep.....................Yep.......................Nope

I can enjoy varied locations, not fucking
dungeons all the time......................................Yep.....................Not Bad................Not good

There's actual characters - not just John
the Thief, Bob the Cleric, etc............................Yep......................Yep......................Nope

I can do something interesting, not
just fucking fight all the time............................Yep......................Yep......................Hahahaha You flyboys crack me up

My ranger could track the macguffin,
while my theif could steal it, etc........................No.......................Don't think so.......No

I played the game twice and it was
totally different................................................No.......................Yes......................Doubt it, not gonna try

The storyline is more involved than
a Xena episode................................................Not too much.......Yes.......................No



Now thats a game world.

This post pretty much sums up my thoughts. The Baldur's Gate series just has that feeling of being made with a soul and attention to extreme detail. Icewind dale as a series is great too, but it's more of a dungeon and loot simulator than a true cRPG.

 

[Minttunator]

This thread and the Project Eternity Kickstarter got me to reinstall IWD. I still had my old savegames from when I last played it in 2002 - turns out I never finished it, for whatever reason. I am having an absolute blast, though! The environments are gorgeous, the atmosphere and soundtrack are great and the combat is much more interesting and tactical than I remember it being. Definitely a great game, if one is not opposed to IE RTwP combat.

 

[Sunsetspawn]

First impression is that IWD1 is better than BG2, I'll follow up as I get through all 4 games.

Spoiler

necrohampster

 

[SwiftCrack]

First impression is that IWD1 is better than BG2, I'll follow up as I get through all 4 games.

Spoiler

necrohampster

 

[bussinrounds]

This thread and the Project Eternity Kickstarter got me to reinstall IWD. I still had my old savegames from when I last played it in 2002 - turns out I never finished it, for whatever reason. I am having an absolute blast, though! The environments are gorgeous, the atmosphere and soundtrack are great and the combat is much more interesting and tactical than I remember it being. Definitely a great game, if one is not opposed to IE RTwP combat.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...l-alive-a-bunch-of-mod-updates-for-iwd.76783/

??

 

[DragoFireheart]

I remember IWD 2 as being a grind feast. Boring a shit.

BG1 has fun decent exploration, though sometimes the wilderness is a bit mindless.
BG2 lacks the level of exploration that BG1 has but the dungeons are much better.
TOB is kinda meh overall but I do like Watchers Keep.

BG series.

 

[adddeed]

IceWindDale is hack and slash, the action version of Baldurs Gate, like Fallout Tactics was the action version of Fallout1/2. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Metatron]

PS:T > BG II > IWD 2 > IWD > BG

The second IWD is the real underrated gem here: 3d edition rules, encounter set-ups that are actually more than a couple of mobs rushing towards you and a refreshing low key story (I think the fact Sawyer and friends were forced to write the main storyline in a day or so was actually a good thing, no unnecessarily complicated fluff). Mid game does include a couple of dull filler moments but don't let that stop you from playing it.
BG1 on the other hand is proto-IE: nice engine, big world and some good ideas that were developed more in later IE games but the pixel hunting on the countryside, the inconsistent all over the place tone of the writing and terrible dungeons make it easily the worst IE game. Tales of the Sword Coast improved things though and thankfully BG2 went mostly that way instead of BG1 vanilla.
BG2 is Bioware blockbuster material but the only one they actually got right. Lot of games (including Bioware ones) were "inspired" by BG2 and turned it into a horrible dating simulator and shit but blaming BG2 for that is like blaming Nirvana for Nickelback.

 

[SwiftCrack]

Has anyone on the 'Dex actually played BG1 before it was packed standardly with TOTSC?

 

[octavius]

Has anyone on the 'Dex actually played BG1 before it was packed standardly with TOTSC?

I did.
A very different experience indeed from playing a fully modded game of BG1 nowadays. It's almost like two different games.

 

[agris]

Has anyone on the 'Dex actually played BG1 before it was packed standardly with TOTSC?

Yep, and TotSC seemed like a natural incremental addition. Durlag's tower was the most noticeable, while the wearwolf island was just more balduran fluff (and gave another balduran item, iirc?). In retrospect, I much prefer this type of expansion pack. A pack that adds to the overall game world and expands its, rather than being a separate game that you launch that's disconnected from the main game (like the DX:HR expansion, pre-DC).

It didn't feel like a different game though, but of course the modded versions eventually did.

Heh, I remember reading the PC Gamer preview articles for BG1 and getting really excited about it. I bought TotSC almost immediately after it was released but it didn't feel like a different game, just a higher level campaign addition.

 

[Sensuki]

Has anyone on the 'Dex actually played BG1 before it was packed standardly with TOTSC?

Yeah. The biggest difference I remember is the rate at which you get ambushed travelling to the Friendly Arm Inn from the first Wilderness Area, I remember early on it was like a really really high chance to get ambushed by a group of bandits, it was pretty funny. Other than that TotSC added some new spells, the Scimitar weapon and the extra areas.

I also prefer TotSC style expansions, too.

 

[Jaesun]

Has anyone on the 'Dex actually played BG1 before it was packed standardly with TOTSC?

I did when BG first came out. Sarevok was SOOOOO easy to kill.

 

[vivec]

Not sure I can meaningfully add a lot to some excellent points already made here. But still I can try.

IWD2 has an inherent advantage over the other IE games; having the 3.x E system. That particular ruleset offers a much broader RP opportunity. That is why the game is even worse in comparison to BG or IWD, as it does not use the mechanics to any appreciable extent. In fact, most of the rulesets is not even implemented and the one that is present is almost pointless.

So the real comparison should be between IWD and BG1/2.

Here, I have a feeling that they serve totally differing purposes. BG was supposed to be recreation of a table-top experience. That is why its characters are more *lively* and detailed. IWD, on the other hand, was a mostly dungeon crawling game. And this shows.

Now, I am hardly an expert here having only finished IWD once, but I did not remember so much real involvement in the story when I played it. I just curb stomped everything to get to the end boss and that was that. I remember the story being slightly idiotic as there is really nothing to stop the bad guys to attack east haven after the initial rock slide in chapter 1. So yeah, BG +1 IWD -1.

On the combat front, IWD did feel more involved but not so much so different from BG. I can't remember single remarkable encounter from IWD. But that might be my memory being rusty. Anyone care to remind me?

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I can't remember single remarkable encounter from IWD. But that might be my memory being rusty. Anyone care to remind me?

Yeah man, getting a response out of people on here is like prodding a sandbag with fossilised turd sometimes. I'll write some crap for you, give you something to type about while you wonder why your bothering to type anything.

!!!Warning!!! Wall of text incoming !!!Warning!!!

The main problem with misconceptions about Icewind Dale is that people approach it in a hack and slash frame of mind. The people who came from Diablo found it too slow and clunky whereas the people who came at it from Balder's Gate found it too quick and slog-festy (BGers rushing the combat to get to the story mentality). Both parties completely miss all of the hundreds of tiny subtleties which amass into something much more fulfilling than a few extra NPC convos.

For those of us who were blessed with not having played either BG or Diablo before playing IWD, we were more likely to play the game as it was meant to be played, an extremely light hearted but also technically challenging Dungeon crawl. In terms of story and general narrative/tropes, it quite literally took the piss, in a good way, but in terms of combat scenarios it forced you to play intelligently and the entire game was structured intelligently.

Let me explain:

Light hearted - In chapter one, you're primary Go Fetch starter quest is getting a retarded old drunk another bottle of wine. When you enter chapter 2 your first quest is to find a cure for an Ogre's headache. If you stand around for too long your player characters will start yawning and berating you for the tediousness of standing around "C'mon C'mon I've places to go to people to see". And this general sense of humour pervades every corner of the game, even the game structure:

It's a hack and slash - then it gives you an entire two dungeons where you can work things out peacefully.
It's a designated loot game - then it gives you occasional random loot.
There is no monster regeneration - then it gives you one dungeon full of regenerating monsters and one solitary group of monsters outside the mouth of one cave who regenerate.
It does not have any trash mobs - then it gives you one screen of trash mobs.
It doesn't have any alignment dialogues - but then it changes one very important in-game event if you lead your party with a Paladin.
It doesn't have any fluff atmosphere NPCs - but then stick a pointless fluff NPC bard in one of the room in one of the dungeons.
There aren't any non-combat related puzzles - then there's this one puzzle to move between dungeons.

I could go on and on about all these little jokes, in-jokes and self-references, but for a lot of people, they just fly right over their head. Missed like hitchhiker next to the fast lane of the autobahn.

But at the same time the game is deadly serious - There were no difficulty sliders, if you didn't know your chestnuts and couldn't work it out, you were dead, repeatedly. All of the primary quest givers talk and act as though the world is actually coming to an end and that some thing must be done... right now... like... urgently. When you do finally get to hear Nym's story, if you've even only been half-reading the narrative, you actually realise just how scummy the guy is, how incredibly seriously this guy had upset the applecart for purely selfish reasons, and it resonates very strongly. And this also pervades the entire game structure:

The only point in the game where you are refused access back to your home/base is during the one dungeon where you can choose to settle the quest peacefully and fight the onl real trash mobs in the game.
You don't ever find OMG amazing loot to fill every inventory slot of your adventurer, in fact, most characters will finish the game with some blank spaces. This also helps limit having too many of one type of character in your party, because there's simply not enough loot to go round. This makes magic items actually feel magic.
The music fits like a glove.
The combat is paced/levelled with almost pristine precision, always keeping you guessing and just one or two missteps from party annihilation.

And again, I could go on and on.


But, yeah, mages are overpowered and the pathfinding is crap... and it's not Diablo or Balder's Gate... so it loses, apparently...


Your Turrrrrrn

 

[MrMarbles]

PS:T > BG II > BG > IWD > Spontaneous ejaculation > IWD 2

Fixed that for you

 

[dukeofwhales]

words

An interesting analysis of a game that I do think is occasionally hard done by (though it doesn't exactly fare badly in "best of" lists). I feel like you seem to attribute coherency issues as a "sense of humour" when in reality I think it was likely different designers working on different sections and a relatively short development cycle.

IWD did a lot of things right though, specifically it nailed the atmosphere - art design, music, intro video, even the interface - all felt perfect. The combat was also more fun than BG1. But for me it just didn't give me the feeling of "something interesting around every corner" that BG1 & 2 do. Partially I think that's because I just don't really like the dungeon crawler story structure that much. But I enjoyed my time with it and I will definitely replay it again some day.

Also Verbeegs are great enemies and I can't help but smile when I see them, so IWD gets points for including them.