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Grand Strategy Imperator: Rome - the new grand strategy from Paradox

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But what difference is it that you're wanting to point out? Or just the similarity of being 'three steps removed'?

If you add Tibet because of India you might as well add Slavs because of Carpathia or whatever, even without a direct contact with Rome since like we said there was no direct contact between Tibet and Rome, not even through trade as far as I know. The same applies to other peripheral areas of the map, most of which I presume to have been added for similar reasons.

Again, not an expert, but the group name is what left me with that interpretation (it's true that at present, however, it only has a baltic subgroup, in the Aesti people).

I see. So a Veneti group consisting of Aesti, Antes and Sclaveni. Makes sense.

The Nilotic one, the Cilician one, the Ionian one, the Thessalian one, the Trojan one, or the one on mainland Greece...? ^^;

And more to the point, tell me why you care!

The Serbian one.

I guess I developed certain sympathy for them for being stuck between Athens and Sparta (and Persia, obviously, not to mention Macedon) and eventually rising to establish their own hegemony with Epaminondas (an officer and a gentleman) and Pelopidas and trying to do things their own way. And history being what it is, they're the ones who in the end felt the full wrath of that Philip's boy whose name eludes me.

Obviously, the right moment to add their mission tree was Magna Graecia but Paradox ignored both them and Corinth and now half of Greece's big four remains a place fordone, forlorn, unnamed, uncharted, where naught molests the sluggish crotali.

Thebes also plays a somewhat prominent role in the Latro series – as does Pindar – and since you speak Greek you should have fun with some of the names Wolfe uses, like Thought, Rope, Hill, Tower Hill, etc.
 

Theodora

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I'm obviously missing something in why we're calling Thebes Serbian, but it's been a long day...

I see. So a Veneti group consisting of Aesti, Antes and Sclaveni. Makes sens

Essentially my idea, yeah; with whatever relevant elements fleshed out to whatever extent is normal by then. I imagine at best though it'd be bundled with some updated based around the Germanics, maaaybe the Scythians.

If you add Tibet because of India you might as well add Slavs because of Carpathia or whatever, even without a direct contact with Rome since like we said there was no direct contact between Tibet and Rome, not even through trade as far as I know. The same applies to other peripheral areas of the map, most of which I presume to have been added for similar reasons.

The thing I meant here was that India has a rich ancient civilisation and literature, and therefore is a valid source to use in and of itself. (Same can be said for materials from the Hellenic world, tbh.) Sorry for the confusion, didn't meant to say that Roman ideas were the only thing worth having, so much as as far as Europe's concerned, the elements of known relevance to Rome are the information that we have.

Obviously, the right moment to add their mission tree was Magna Graecia but Paradox ignored both them and Corinth and now half of Greece's big four remains a place fordone, forlorn, unnamed, uncharted, where naught molests the sluggish crotali.

I mean, Thebes was raised by Alexander, so really it's only Corinth that has that much relevance at all left. I'm not sure what a compelling narrative would be to be honest (not that my presently absent creativity should be their excuse :P); though Syracuse was a more obvious case given its connection to Sparta, its relevance to the previous 'content pack', and also to the Peloponnesian War(s).

Thebes also plays a somewhat prominent role in the Latro series – as does Pindar – and since you speak Greek you should have fun with some of the names Wolfe uses, like Thought, Rope, Hill, Tower Hill, etc.

Neat ^_^ I'll try to remember to get back to you about them when I get around to them. I get a lot of recommendations and life's kinda chaotic though, so be patient with me lol.
 
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Hello and welcome to another Development Diary for Imperator: Rome

Today I am here to talk about Rebellions in the Hellenistic and Republican era, as well as some changes that we are making to the game to accommodate a more historical outcome.

Rebellions in the era of Imperator: Rome

Alexandersempire.png


The aftermath of a great deal of Rebellions?

In many ways the era in which our game is set is as much associated with the crumbling of Empires as it is the rise of Rome. Not long prior the Achaemenid Empire was crushed by Alexander the Great, and only a few decades ago his empire then broke apart into pieces, with small regional rulers carving out their own countries from within the empire.

Likewise Rome itself faced local rebellions in various parts of the Empire, both while it was growing and in regions that had been under Roman rule for some time.

Rebellions are something we consider separate from the grand Civil Wars, where the goal was not to carve out a new realm but for Roman politicians and generals to further their ambitions against the Republic itself. Such wars, in which every citizen was supposed to pick a side, we have the Civil War mechanic in the game.

While there is perhaps room for improvement here it does in our opinion reasonably well portray things like the Civil Wars of Sulla or the Dynastic Wars in the Seleucid Empire.

Rebellions in the game on the other hand we have been less happy with. Up until now the rules for a Rebellion have been that once you have a high enough number of people living in disloyal provinces, all such provinces revolt at the same time, in one huge war.

This does perhaps seem to capture the way Alexander’s empire broke apart all at once after his death, but perhaps not for the right reasons. While monarchies are famously unstable on succession, with many rulers spending the first time in power ensuring the loyalty of the provinces they inherited, it is doubtful that all the unhappy people would revolt in a coordinated way throughout your empire. There are very few such grand revolts to find in this era, or even other historical eras.

The gameplay implications were also odd. It meant that expansion in itself was a good way to lower the risk of revolt, since the more land you owned, the more provinces would need to be disloyal before the rebels would dare try their luck.

Rather than a number of small fires that can grow into big ones unless you put them out across a huge realm rebellions are currently either nonexistent or giant wars of independence for all the oppressed peoples in your entire empire.

Changes Rebellions in the Menander Update

riskofrebellion.png


With the changes coming to how you handle cultures in the Menander update. With each culture in your empire having its own happiness rating within your country, making all of its pops more or less happy with your rule we are now able to offload more of the rebellion mechanic unto pops, but we don't want to do this by having entire cultures revolt together. This simply does not match the historical reality most of the time, and it is also not very enjoyable to play.

Instead we want rebellions to be affected by things like cultural happiness, but ultimately depend on the happiness of your pops, as they exist in your provinces. When the people of a province has had enough they should rebel, with the possibility of said rebellion growing if more nearby provinces join the independence war.

In the Menander Update Rebellions have been reworked to this end. The national rebellion progress bar has been removed completely and instead the loyalty of each province, dependent on the happiness of the pops living there, is what determines when a rebellion breaks out. The rebels will not wait for a better time to strike, once their patience is up they will declare independence and take their chances.

campania.png


(Campania declares independence)

Just as before the main contributing factor for province loyalty is unrest, and unrest still comes from the unhappy pops you have in the territories within each your provinces. Together with the cultural happiness changes described in last week's diary this means that if you treat a culture wrong you may well still see the pops of that culture coming out in Rebellion, but it also means that province that is being particularly harshly taxed will have a much shorter patience, and may well rebel from that alone.

When a province revolts it will form a new country, with the local culture and religion that was dominant in the province as its new state culture and state religion. This new country will immediately be thrown into an independence war, with the goal of securing its future independence. Should more provinces in your empire rebel, they will join the ongoing war if they are of the same culture, or start new individual ones if they are not.

While an independence war as a rule starts as a small revolt it can still grow into a bigger rebellion with more and more provinces throwing off the yoke and joining the ongoing war. This is especially likely if the reasons for the unhappiness that caused the revolt was tied to the low cultural happiness of a culture, rather than something more local.

growingwar.png


(another province joins the independence war)

Lastly the independence war itself has been updated, instead of a supremacy war, where the way to get a ticking war score over time is to defeat as many as possible of the opponents troops, an independence war now uses a new war goal specific to rebellions.

The rebels are still the aggressors, but they war goal of the independence war is now capturing and holding the rebel capital (consequently it is the capital of the original rebel country that must be defended if more countries join a rebellion). Overall what this means is that in order to put down a rebellion the old owner must bring the fight to the rebels, and the rebels themselves will be able to succeed by just defending themselves, rather than by annihilating all forces of their old oppressors.

wargoal.png


(An independence war in action)

What about the problems of monarchs on succession? Since I used it as an example above I will add that in monarchies provinces now take a small one time hit to loyalty whenever succession occurs.

Unrest

Another problem with the old rebellion system is that unrest plays too many roles. Unrest mainly comes from unhappy pops living in a territory, and its main effect is to reduce the loyalty of the province that territory is in. This much is something we like.

But unrest also has a number of other effects such as reducing manpower, taxes, etc, often the very things that the low happiness of your pops have already caused.

In the Menander update we have streamlined unrest a bit. It will now almost only come from one source: Unhappy pops.

Unrest will also no longer have any effect on the economy of a territory in itself at all. When you see unrest in a province what you see is how rebellious it is. Currently it does still have an effect on things like assimilation, migration and conversion however, this is subject to change still.

unrest.png


(unrest as it currently stands in the internal build)

Existing things that affected unrest directly have now all been converted either to something that affects happiness or other things when that makes sense.

What about subject countries?

We will get back to subject countries in a future diary. For now I will say that when a rebellion breaks out a subject country of the right culture can join the independence war just like rebellious provinces can, given the right circumstances. The new independence war goal is also available for all subject countries against their overlord, with its focus on the aggressor surviving by defending themselves, rather than by defeating all armies of their former overlord.

That was it for today!

I hope that you will enjoy these changes, which we are now busy trying out and balancing. As usual any numbers you see in the text or in screenshots are to be considered work in progress.
 
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Late Bronze Age/Bronze Age Collapse Start Date & Dorian Invasion mechanics

I strongly believe that there should be a 1200BCs starting date showing the Sea Peoples invasions and the collapse of the major Empires. Such a start date would require numerous events weakening the major Bronze Age powers. In the case of Greece, the Proto-Aegean tribes should start off as migratory hordes at war with the Aegean states, and be given buffs to basically ensure that they win. Subsequently there should be a fusion of Proto-Aegean & Aegean cultures to create the Hellenes.

Hey Aust. I'm one of the mod devs, specifically the one who works on this side of the Aegean Sea. I read this and your other comment and I get what you're saying. I understand that there is an urge to play Bronze Age Greeks, and that merely playing the cultures that led to the fusion and creation of Hellenic civilization doesn't exactly scratch that itch. I'd rather not say too much at this point, so all I can say is that I share this sentiment and that there is much to look forward to in upcoming releases for the mod. While it's true that cultural evolution isn't built into vanilla I:R, it's perfectly possible to mod it in, and indeed some have already done it with mods that allow cultural fusion for the Diadochi. That said, I would not go with the scenario you suggest because I think you're mixing up time periods. The period with Proto-Achaean migratory tribes was essentially prior to the Mycenaean period (starting around 1600 BCE), so putting together migrations that happened toward the beginning of the Middle Helladic alongside the Dorian invasion which took place at the end of the Bronze Age would not be historical. (Unless I'm misunderstanding your suggestion, in which case I apologize.)

Anyway, thanks for your feedback. I hope that we are able to address your concerns and keep making the mod better.
 

Theodora

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Really nice to see definite historical competency from one of the mod's devs; although I hope if the LBA collapse is something they eventually plan on implemententing that it's more than just superbuffed 'sea peoplez'. Just as they can't tell whether they're reading that question right, I'm not 100% sure what they're trying to say lol; but maybe I'm just tired.

Cassander rebuilt it and invited the exiles.

My bad! I mixed up some dates with Imperator's start.

I scrolled randomly through the last few pages, and spotted that nobles are "producing" "commerce"... God, this is so depressing.

They've said it's temporary.
 
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Theodora, do you use any mods? I vaguely recall using No Stutter and Emendatio Historiae Imperatoris, both of which came out moments after the game's release but aside from The Bronze Age I haven't really been following the modding scene.

Is there anything you'd call essential?
 

Theodora

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Theodora, do you use any mods? I vaguely recall using No Stutter and Emendatio Historiae Imperatoris, both of which came out moments after the game's release but aside from The Bronze Age I haven't really been following the modding scene.

Is there anything you'd call essential?

Tbh fam, not really. Paradox's weird decision (though probably less a decision and just engine changes) to disable all mods with achievements on comibned with the relatively small userbase puts people off.

Other than the fab Bronze Age mod (linked for others' sake), there's not even any other up to date overhauls worth checking out imo. The most popular other mods are Better UI, which you might prefer though personally I don't bother, and Gladio et Sale, which sells itself as 'Veritas et Fortitudo for I:R' (interestingly (and optionally) adds China and Korea, and a bunch of other things.

Feature List:

* Expansion of the map to include China and Korea with unique mechanics for China's 'Hundred Schools of Thought' religion; for the 'Light' version of the mod which does NOT include the map, find it here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1940823033

* Adjusted cohort size and manpower for more realistic army sizes and strategic constraints

* Assimilation and conversion are overhauled; they function based on separate probabilities for differing pop types and culture groups meaning multiple pops can convert at once if appropriate

* Rebalance to pop desire to make more realistic pop distributions

* Added military traditions for Chinese, Illyrian/Dacian, and Iberian

* Added trade goods for copper, lead, silver, opium, wax, porcelain, and jade

* Added Illyrian, Anatolian and Caucasian culture groups; cultures added to each culture group to represent foreigners acclimated to but never completely of your culture (E.G. 'Hellenized'). Moved Thracian culture to the Dacian group; added a Hellenic Thraikes culture and split Thracian pops between Thracian and Thraikes.

* Changes to the game setup with new nations added in Italy, Dacia, and Scythia.

* Added country-specific missions for Epirus, Egypt, Armenia, Pontus, Parthia, Macedon, Thrace, Antigonids, and Seleucids

* Rebalanced diplomacy, specifically subjugation willingness and ability to convert tributary subjects to client states over time

* Added a number of new global and unique blessings to spend omens on

* Ability to upgrade ports for increased bonuses to commerce and shipbuilding

* Added two new unit types (javelins and slingers) for more variety in ranged units

* Added baseline terrain values for combat abilities of various units

* Inventions overhauled to no longer require gold but become available over time.

Features of earlier Gladio Et Sale versions incorporated into the vanilla game:
* Overhaul of game function to remove religious and civic power while limiting military power to traditions and mercenaries making oratory power the single power currency
* Addition of numerous city buildings

The latter isn't updated for 1.4 yet.

I guess I don't use any because I'm content enough with the UI and using the achievements as goal posts atm.

There's a bunch of small, niche mods out there but it would depend on what your particular issue(s) is(/are).
 

Theodora

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I find those kinda UI mods out of place, though admittedly I don't understand the camp of people who take issue with the marble white stuff. (Though I don't mind The Bronze Age's shift on it, even if I'm not sure what the new colours are meant to reference of the top of my head. I think a mod like that really benefits from having a visual shift in its identity.)
 
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I'm surprised he didn't add some other options. I'd consider switching between different colors depending on who I'm playing, like green for Celts and so on.

1a309508fee8e15e55d0381fd1f7600b.jpg


Anyway, here's this guy.

 

fantadomat

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I'm surprised he didn't add some other options. I'd consider switching between different colors depending on who I'm playing, like green for Celts and so on.

1a309508fee8e15e55d0381fd1f7600b.jpg


Anyway, here's this guy.


Buahahahaha that video killed me,buahahahahahah! LoL

"I am here to review the newest patch and first paid DLC of Imperator,but i will focus only on the patch because i haven't bought the DLC and have no intentions of doing it."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 

Theodora

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I watch Darren's stuff, but I always take him with a pinch of salt after his drunken fuckup / getting blacklisting by CA, and his NDA mess with Imperator

His production quality is great, so it's a shame that he pivoted so hard to clickbait titles and the constant outrage crowd. Guy should've stuck with working at CA if he wanted to make a difference to games like this, rather than RQ when they don't take the new guy's advice on how to transform the company.

"I am here to review the newest patch and first paid DLC of Imperator,but i will focus only on the patch because i haven't bought the DLC and have no intentions of doing it."

I thoght you didn't 'buy' any DLC? :P

I'm surprised he didn't add some other options. I'd consider switching between different colors depending on who I'm playing, like green for Celts and so on.

1a309508fee8e15e55d0381fd1f7600b.jpg

I kinda like this idea, althought to be honest I don't think you even need to resort to different colours of marble alone, given the lost polychromy of the ancient world. Oddly Assassin's Creed has managed to make this more evident than any other game I've noticed:

27WR5ZT.png

(Though I admit wanting a somewhat anachronistic porphyry UI... T.T)
 
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Theodora

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It is a citation of the guy doing the review video lol. Also i buy only good shit,rpgs or strategies.

Oh I know, not my comment. :P

I kinda like the mission trees they're peddling, but I do find it a bit cheeky that they're not giving some more away for free to people who bought it earlly. (Is little relief that the generic/''dynamic'' missions in Imperator are better than their equivalent in EU4 and HoI4.)
 
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I don't really follow any gaming channels. Aside from the sports stuff you couldn't care less for, it's mostly just some documentaries and the like. A few history channels like Kings and Generals, History Time, Invicta, maybe BazBattles. Feel free to check them out.

How did you like Odyssey? Were all the thyrsi properly ivied? Was the difference between a Doric chiton and a Ionic chiton made perfectly clear? Was the sea wine-faced rather than wine-dark?

This will be the first and the last time you'll hear this, but to me the only true AC game was the original one. Even the sequel had an aura of milking about it even though it was certainly a better game. Then came Brotherhood and then Revelations with some pro-kebab stuff I couldn't be bothered to pirate.
 

Theodora

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I don't really follow any gaming channels. Aside from the sports stuff you couldn't care less for, it's mostly just some documentaries and the like. A few history channels like Kings and Generals, History Time, Invicta, maybe BazBattles. Feel free to check them out.

I'm waiting for Invicta to continue their speculative history of 'What If Casear Lived?' :P

How did you like Odyssey? Were all the thyrsi properly ivied? Was the difference between a Doric chiton and a Ionic chiton made perfectly clear? Was the sea wine-faced rather than wine-dark?

Lmao, glad you're familiar with the original materials; I've not played the AC games properly, just familiar with some of the cool historical recreations Ubisoft have been responsible for.

This will be the first and the last time you'll hear this, but to me the only true AC game was the original one. Even the sequel had an aura of milking about it even though it was certainly a better game. Then came Brotherhood and then Revelations with some pro-kebab stuff I couldn't be bothered to pirate.

Lmao, pro-kebab ... tbh that's the one I wanna play most (to fuck around in Constantinople mostly), but story-wise I'd need to play its two predecessors, and idk if I have the time.
 
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I haven't played any of them since Brotherhood. They always sound promising once announced but then over time the whole thing turns into a mess and I lose all interest.

The only one I'd consider playing right now is Origins and even that one mainly for the DLC where some Circassian beauty of yore sends you to go beat-up Ninfertiti and Hulkankhamun. They should've made the whole game revolve around Akhenaten and his family, to be honest.
 

AgentFransis

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I don't really follow any gaming channels. Aside from the sports stuff you couldn't care less for, it's mostly just some documentaries and the like. A few history channels like Kings and Generals, History Time, Invicta, maybe BazBattles. Feel free to check them out.
Try Historia Civilis, he's very good. Mainly focused on antiquity.
 

Casual Hero

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Haven't played this one, and I probably won't- seeing as how most people don't like it.
But dang it, it looks so pretty. I love the UI design.
 

Raghar

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I watch Darren's stuff, but I always take him with a pinch of salt after his drunken fuckup / getting blacklisting by CA, and his NDA mess with Imperator
I seen his stream live and he didn't seem to be drunk. It was unprepared stream and he'd do better if he prepared stream properly and shown ALL CA flaws with sarcasm so in case they would black list him, he'd be proud of his correct stream.

But, frankly they promised his something if he will do marketing for half year. He did, they lied.
So he said he wanna quit when they will not move him to that shitty position he wanted to be in with likely the same salary or less. They remembered he become quite useful as PR, and offered him rise. He did correct decision and quit.


His production quality is great, so it's a shame that he pivoted so hard to clickbait titles and the constant outrage crowd. Guy should've stuck with working at CA if he wanted to make a difference to games like this, rather than RQ when they don't take the new guy's advice on how to transform the company.
And when they would ignore his game related advice with words you are that PR guy, even 5 years later? What then? That's 5 years he could so something more constructive. He's average in what he wanted, but SEGA CA is so bad company he might push it up. When they will not act like office ladies and saying yea some PR guy what he can know...

They could force him to correct Attila AI, so it would no longer have a problem when defending units are outside of city instead inside protecting the city. (And that would allow him both prove his skills, and learn stuff he wanted.)

Moral of the story is, don't tread your golden pig as a moron, he can learn something (in real programming environment), and he would stay as golden pig useful for company.
 

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