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Grand Strategy Imperator: Rome - the new grand strategy from Paradox

fantadomat

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included a bunch of little notes, including changes to population growth and upcoming map changes.
Who the fuck needs that many provinces?! It just lags the game and ends up being a chore for the gameplay. Nobody cares if a five hovels village is represented on the map.
 

Fedora Master

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included a bunch of little notes, including changes to population growth and upcoming map changes.
Who the fuck needs that many provinces?! It just lags the game and ends up being a chore for the gameplay. Nobody cares if a five hovels village is represented on the map.

Your countrymen and other assorted Balkanoids on the PDX forum would violently disagree. Don't you know that <random irrelevant shithole> was the cradle of civilization?!

E: Don't be butthurt about facts.
 

fantadomat

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included a bunch of little notes, including changes to population growth and upcoming map changes.
Who the fuck needs that many provinces?! It just lags the game and ends up being a chore for the gameplay. Nobody cares if a five hovels village is represented on the map.

Your countrymen and other assorted Balkanoids on the PDX forum would violently disagree. Don't you know that <random irrelevant shithole> was the cradle of civilization?!
There is a difference between wanting for bulgaria to have more than two provinces in eu4 and being made by 200 provinces lol. Why are you so butthurt my inbreed friend? I have been to viena and know that most blakan capitals are more interesting cities than it lol. I take it that it is some inferiority complex. Also golden praha is a lot better than viena too. Tho you do have some good museums,pretty nice shit in them.
 

thesecret1

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The sheer, mad amount of provinces appeals to me, but it is the other systems that make or break the game. Did Imperator get any more depth after the initial release? Are the techs fixed to not be just +5% increases of shit? Is there proper flavour? Do different nations play differently – is proper assymetry present? Are there still jews everywhere? Is the game fun?

Also, since I assume the last question to be answered by a 'No', is there some good, big mod that fixes the game?
 
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Mortmal

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The number of provinces indeed show a massive revamp. Will get the dlc to support it. Hope they add many achievements to hunt.
 

Theodora

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The sheer, mad amount of provinces appeals to me, but it is the other systems that make or break the game. Did Imperator get any more depth after the initial release? Are the techs fixed to not be just +5% increases of shit? Is there proper flavour? Do different nations play differently – is proper assymetry present? Are there still jews everywhere? Is the game fun?

Best thing with 2.0 imo is the military revamps. Very much a positive in terms of gameplay and historical accuracy; no more Rome starting with a standing army.

Dope new loading screen depicting the Battle of Ipsus (301 BCE).


New Atlas mapmode.


AI now focuses on conquering rich high-civilisation value nations (instead of barbarian/tribal lands), and has much more dynamic internal politics (middle of a Roman civil war, pictured).


UI rework is looking fantastic.

 
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thesecret1

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Johan is possessed by the idea of abstraction over simulation, which is where most of the core issues of modern paradox games stem from
 

Anthedon

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Marius/2.0 and Heirs of Alexander DLC out on the 16th February.

Last week's DD included a bunch of little notes, including changes to population growth and upcoming map changes.

anatolia.jpg


Genuinely can't wait.

Holy province autism Batman. Looks like something from MEIOU and Taxes. The rest of the things I'm reading sound decent too. I might actually give Imperator a shot with the 2.0 update.
 

AgentFransis

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What the hell is the point of this province spam? This isn't HOI where they had to have a million provinces to approximate a hex map.
 

Theodora

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Holy province autism Batman. Looks like something from MEIOU and Taxes. The rest of the things I'm reading sound decent too. I might actually give Imperator a shot with the 2.0 update.

Don't get why people would see this as a negative. Esp. given, as someone else, it's the era of city states. Greater granularity can only be a positive.
 
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Have they fixed the min 1% WS per province preventing you from conquering reasonable amounts of land in a war?
 

fantadomat

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Johan is possessed by the idea of abstraction over simulation, which is where most of the core issues of modern paradox games stem from
Ahh not really,the problem is that he has one idea of abstraction and that it is. There is nothing wrong with having a few abstract mechanics here and there. But he is just making the same game over and over again,it is boring.
 

thesecret1

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Johan is possessed by the idea of abstraction over simulation, which is where most of the core issues of modern paradox games stem from
Ahh not really,the problem is that he has one idea of abstraction and that it is. There is nothing wrong with having a few abstract mechanics here and there. But he is just making the same game over and over again,it is boring.
Abstraction makes sense in some regards – for example, abstracting that a province makes a certain amount of money based on its population and general development, rather than simulating each and every business in the province. But Johan is trying to abstract everything to the point of making the game itself be trivial – he is literally dumbing it down through excess abstraction utilizing mana. Now, obviously, he is possessed by this idea because it is very easy to balance and make work something that is abstracted, yet it is immeasurably more difficult to simulate something and actually have it work, especially when you have a wide array of potential inputs to the simulation – if your model neglects something important, it is likely that your resulting simulation will either break down and stop working under certain circumstances, or that it will start performing too well and provide an exploit.

The thing is, however, simulation is fun. It is why Victoria 2 is so well-liked, because it actually simulates the economy rather than abstracting it, and it's fun to develop your factory, try cornering the market or secure resources for it through conquest, enact laws and get techs to get your commoners to become workers, all that shit. Of couse you have shit like liquor factory spam, which is the exploit thing I mentioned above, but it is all still fun nevertheless. Now, an abstract approach to economy would be something like "we take province population, we take the literacy amount of your population and laws and local infrastructure, create an equation, and show you the final number of money you get from this province." This is obviously much easier to design and make, but it is so damn dull, there is no fun in it.

Abstraction should be used when there is something that is largely irrelevant to the aim of the game or wouldn't be fun for the player to play with. Johan's problem is that he's striving to abstract everything and simulate nothing, so long as he can avoid it.
 

fantadomat

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Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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Johan is possessed by the idea of abstraction over simulation, which is where most of the core issues of modern paradox games stem from
Ahh not really,the problem is that he has one idea of abstraction and that it is. There is nothing wrong with having a few abstract mechanics here and there. But he is just making the same game over and over again,it is boring.
Abstraction makes sense in some regards – for example, abstracting that a province makes a certain amount of money based on its population and general development, rather than simulating each and every business in the province. But Johan is trying to abstract everything to the point of making the game itself be trivial – he is literally dumbing it down through excess abstraction utilizing mana. Now, obviously, he is possessed by this idea because it is very easy to balance and make work something that is abstracted, yet it is immeasurably more difficult to simulate something and actually have it work, especially when you have a wide array of potential inputs to the simulation – if your model neglects something important, it is likely that your resulting simulation will either break down and stop working under certain circumstances, or that it will start performing too well and provide an exploit.

The thing is, however, simulation is fun. It is why Victoria 2 is so well-liked, because it actually simulates the economy rather than abstracting it, and it's fun to develop your factory, try cornering the market or secure resources for it through conquest, enact laws and get techs to get your commoners to become workers, all that shit. Of couse you have shit like liquor factory spam, which is the exploit thing I mentioned above, but it is all still fun nevertheless. Now, an abstract approach to economy would be something like "we take province population, we take the literacy amount of your population and laws and local infrastructure, create an equation, and show you the final number of money you get from this province." This is obviously much easier to design and make, but it is so damn dull, there is no fun in it.

Abstraction should be used when there is something that is largely irrelevant to the aim of the game or wouldn't be fun for the player to play with. Johan's problem is that he's striving to abstract everything and simulate nothing, so long as he can avoid it.
Ahh that is pretty much me point. The best option is to have both things in the game. I would like a streamlined UI but more added complexity of the system. I dislike authistic retardation like HoI3's division placing and shit,now if it was something that you could just do with a few buttons and by changing some numbers,sure. But manually changing every single division's HQ and command structure....well that is retarded and unrealistic. Same with Vici and its army,factory and pop mechanics. The idea is pretty cool,but execution is pretty dated. I don't need to know about every single villager lol,it would be a lot better if it was represented in graphs that shows you what percentage if the population is what sex,profession,religion,ethnicity etc etc. Also Vici had the worst combat system of any paradox game lol. CK2 have the best one,would want to see it in more games,tho it doesn't mesh well in a modern setting. But that 3k per unit was painful. But yeah,even as dated as it is vici2 is one of the best games paradox had made for sure.
 
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I got the mail from GOG and for a single second I was tempted to buy the game for 8 bucks. But knowing Paradox and their dubious business practices I guess they sell me another half-baked, stripped-down base game and demand shitloads of money for overpriced DLCs if I want the full experience.
Did they at least manage to get Rome's political system right in this game? A game that wants to be realistic should try to take into account that - for example - there were two Consuls in Republican Rome (and two Kings in Sparta).
 

Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
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I got the mail from GOG and for a single second I was tempted to buy the game for 8 bucks. But knowing Paradox and their dubious business practices I guess they sell me another half-baked, stripped-down base game and demand shitloads of money for overpriced DLCs if I want the full experience.
Did they at least manage to get Rome's political system right in this game? A game that wants to be realistic should try to take into account that - for example - there were two Consuls in Republican Rome (and two Kings in Sparta).

If "they should have two consuls" level of baseline accuracy is what's in question, yes, they do that well enough for Rome. Not very well for others. Like EU:Rome it is a game where you can have fun larping Rome for a while but definitely still suffers from being a EU reskin in too many ways.
 

Theodora

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So what's the current state of the game, Theodora? Worth trying it out or should I wait for some more feature reworks and what not?

These (esp. the first) explained a ton of what's changed. Anyone that doesn't just larp classical knowledge for the sake of banal political agendas should know why this is hugely positive.




Iow, I told you fucks arheo was based.
 

Fedora Master

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No way in hell will the AI be able to handle combat width.

e: Also it's like that thing I said would happen. They're reworking core mechanics willy-nilly now.
 

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