Turn-Based Tactics Into the Breach: Advanced Edition - mech tactics game from FTL devs with Chris Avellone writing

[ValeVelKal]

Free today at Epic.

Unironically bad, because the devs are in the minority of those who deserve money.

Don't they get paid by Epic?

They get paid by copy sold for free at a pre-agreed price. Dev are WAY better off that way.

 

[Nutria]

Procedural generated content is still fresh hot wet shit.

ok zoomer

 

[thesheeep]

Procedural generated content is still fresh hot wet shit.

Basically you are still forced to do the same content over and over and over again but with slightly different setups.

As minimalistic as maps and encounters are in this game, there's basically no difference between procedural content and hand-made content.
Or do you really think you'd enjoy this game more if the three buildings on a map were on different spots and the enemies spawned 1-4 fields further north?

 

[HoboForEternity]

Procedural generated content is still fresh hot wet shit.

Basically you are still forced to do the same content over and over and over again but with slightly different setups.

As minimalistic as maps and encounters are in this game, there's basically no difference between procedural content and hand-made content.
Or do you really think you'd enjoy this game more if the three buildings on a map were on different spots and the enemies spawned 1-4 fields further north?

the minimalistic map is the result of the randomly generated content too. everything about this game is wrong decision and pretty much mobile game wannabe

 

[thesheeep]

Procedural generated content is still fresh hot wet shit.

Basically you are still forced to do the same content over and over and over again but with slightly different setups.

As minimalistic as maps and encounters are in this game, there's basically no difference between procedural content and hand-made content.
Or do you really think you'd enjoy this game more if the three buildings on a map were on different spots and the enemies spawned 1-4 fields further north?

the minimalistic map is the result of the randomly generated content too. everything about this game is wrong decision and pretty much mobile game wannabe

Hey, I don't like the game, either.
I don't like the minimalistic battles, I don't like the determinism, I don't like the way the AI works... it all just turns the game into a puzzle game, not a combat game.

But putting the blame on procedural generation makes no sense.
Procedural generation, if at all, actually allows you to do bigger maps than manual generation. It works the way it does for any size, really. Or we'd only see procedural generation used for tiny maps.

The small maps are a design decision independent of procedural generation.
The goal of which I can only assume is to keep the time spent on single encounters very low.

 

[Nutria]

The goal of which I can only assume is to keep the time spent on single encounters very low.

It's so that you can actually plan out your moves in your head. The game would totally fail if the grid was bigger by one more tile because you wouldn't be able to outthink the AI unless you were a turboautist.

 

[Arnust]

Guys

The maps are hand made, every single one of them. You can go into the game's files and see 'em all, for real.

The only things that are procedural in the game are Vek spawns (it is heavily modified by difficulty and amount of vek on the board, and which kinds specifically will appear is stated on the island selection UI), island and mission arrangements, shop and 4-island reward inventories (they exclude anything you already have or have been offered) and drops (airdrops are VERY heavily modified by difficulty, you get one every two missions In Hard/3-4 Islands). Also is the grid defense roll

If you feel like reeing at it at least think of something that's at least *arguably* true

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[ValeVelKal]

Almost every single decision in this game is the correct one, and the game would collapse without it. The exceptions are rare and few between.

That’s also why the game is so innovative.

But the game is an endless puzzle-generator, not a strategic or tactical game. It is sitting next to Baba is You, not with Faster Than Light.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Almost every single decision in this game is the correct one, and the game would collapse without it. The exceptions are rare and few between.

That’s also why the game is so innovative.

But the game is an endless puzzle-simulator, not a strategic or tactic game. It is sitting next to Baba is You, not with Faster Than Light.

i mean it's fun the first run around, but you cannot expect people to hold this game for over more than 5-8 hours doing basically the same thing over and over again with slightly different setup. basically "you see trough all the island once you seen it all".

baba is you have completely different non repeatable levels. even those extra levels that use the same layout have some stuff tweaked so they re-think the level. don't put this on the same level as baba.

 

[ValeVelKal]

i mean it's fun the first run around, but you cannot expect people to hold this game for over more than 5-8 hours doing basically the same thing over and over again with slightly different setup. basically "you see trough all the island once you seen it all".

baba is you have completely different non repeatable levels. even those extra levels that use the same layout have some stuff tweaked so they re-think the level. don't put this on the same level as baba.

And yet I had more fun and for longer with ITB thanwith Baba is You. I played 7 hours of Baba is You but at some point the game just stopped being fun. I respect the design immensely (except the arcane rules on whether you can push words in stuff or not) but as neat as it is I did not have that much fun.

For ITB, I played maybe 20 hours (no time stamp on Gog.com) because after 2 or 3 hours you have new mechs and thus new way to solve the puzzles, so the game is quite refreshing. It became to me a great game to launch once or twice a month.

 

[HoboForEternity]

i mean it's fun the first run around, but you cannot expect people to hold this game for over more than 5-8 hours doing basically the same thing over and over again with slightly different setup. basically "you see trough all the island once you seen it all".

baba is you have completely different non repeatable levels. even those extra levels that use the same layout have some stuff tweaked so they re-think the level. don't put this on the same level as baba.

And yet I had more fun and for longer with ITB rather than with Baba is You. I played 7 phours of Baba is You but at some point the game just stopped being fun. I respect the design immensely (except the arcane rule on whether you can push words in stuff or not) but as neat as it is I did not have that much fun.

For ITB, I played maybe 20 hours (no time stamp on Gog.com) because after 2 or 3!hours you have new mechs and thus new way to solve the puzzle, so the game is quite refreshing. After that, it become a great game to launch once or twice a month.

Yeah. I am totally different. I already put 30 hours into baba is you and i still got 3 more worlds and some secret stuff.

 

[Nutria]

you cannot expect people to hold this game for over more than 5-8 hours

I've got about 30 hours into it and I've only really mastered half of the squads in it. Even after that it's a game I'm going come back to in years to come. But hey, what would I know? You're the expert here. You dabbled in it and then ran off like a pink-haired 15-year old girl and screamed that it's not punk rock anymore because it's too popular.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

This gaem looked boring af from the start, I don't even know what you guys are arguing about.

 

[HoboForEternity]

This gaem looked boring af from the start, I don't even know what you guys are arguing about.

i bought into the marketing bullshit

 

[ValeVelKal]

This gaem looked boring af from the start, I don't even know what you guys are arguing about.

Did you play it or did you stop as "looked boring af" ?

 

[Galdred]

This gaem looked boring af from the start, I don't even know what you guys are arguing about.

It is one of the best puzzler Tactics. Whether the genre is of any interest to someone or not is an entirely different question.

 

[Black]

The game is too high IQ for ZBUJ.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Did you play it or did you stop as "looked boring af" ?

Man, I'm pushing 40, 2 kids and literally have hundreds of games in my steam/gog backlog, not to mention that I'm still playing classics more often than not. What I'm saying is that I don't really have time or will to play a game that seems boring af on the off chance I'm wrong. That said, I did check out its development and watched gameplay vids, since I liked FTL a lot, so it's not like my opinion is uneducated.

It is one of the best puzzler Tactics. Whether the genre is of any interest to someone or not is an entirely different question.

To be honest, I don't know what "puzzler tactics" means exactly and what are the defining titles in this "genre" so it's a bit hard to relate. I remember people saying that Incubation is a lot like puzzle game due to some missions requiring figuring out specific solutions to succeed and Incubation was really awesome, but this doesn't look anything like it. To me this looks like very repetitive, very limited in scope chess-lite, which is, yeah, boring. And the cutesy, modern pixel "art" graphics don't help, either. This art style for games should die in a fire already. Also, games like these start to kinda trigger old man yelling at a cloud in me, as between something like this and nuXCOM as the image of a tactical game in the eyes of your average modern gaymer it sure as feck ain't looking like proper tactical games are ever coming back.

 

[Galdred]

To be honest, I don't know what "puzzler tactics" means exactly and what are the defining titles in this "genre" so it's a bit hard to relate. I remember people saying that Incubation is a lot like puzzle game due to some missions requiring figuring out specific solutions to succeed and Incubation was really awesome, but this doesn't look anything like it. To me this looks like very repetitive, very limited in scope chess-lite, which is, yeah, boring. And the cutesy, modern pixel "art" graphics don't help, either. This art style for games should die in a fire already. Also, games like these start to kinda trigger old man yelling at a cloud in me, as between something like this and nuXCOM as the image of a tactical game in the eyes of your average modern gaymer it sure as feck ain't looking like proper tactical games are ever coming back.

Indeed, these are both what I would call tactical Puzzlers, and Incubation has a much more interesting gameplay for me too, but ITB is better suited to short sessions, also, its UI is really good, while Incubation UI was already borderline atrocious when it came out.

 

[Nutria]

Man, I'm pushing 40, 2 kids and literally have hundreds of games in my steam/gog backlog

Hoarding is a classic symptom of OCD so I think you'll like this game. Also 40 is a little too old to be acting like you're too cool for indie games that are actually popular because they turned out to be good.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Indeed, these are both what I would call tactical Puzzlers, and Incubation has a much more interesting gameplay for me too, but ITB is better suited to short sessions, also, its UI is really good, while Incubation UI was already borderline atrocious when it came out.

Going offtopic, but what's so bad about Incubation's UI? Commanding your squad was rather smooth and things like managing inventory were really streamlined.

Hoarding is a classic symptom of OCD so I think you'll like this game.

It's a symptom of having expendable income and "I'll totally play this crap one day" delusions, but sales going to shit seems to have cured me quite successfully, so everything's cool.

Also 40 is a little too old to be acting like you're too cool for indie games that are actually popular because they turned out to be good.

Er, what? Also, I don't have anything against indies per se and ITB isn't really that popular or, in fact, popular at all. Probably cause it looks boring af, which made us go full circle.

 

[Galdred]

Indeed, these are both what I would call tactical Puzzlers, and Incubation has a much more interesting gameplay for me too, but ITB is better suited to short sessions, also, its UI is really good, while Incubation UI was already borderline atrocious when it came out.

Going offtopic, but what's so bad about Incubation's UI? Commanding your squad was rather smooth and things like managing inventory were really streamlined.

The camera was really limited, and the viewport was way too small, so I found it very hard to get a good picture of the battlefield.
Giving order and equiping squad was indeed effortless.
That said, ITB maps are so small that it is relatively much easier to make a good UI for it :D

Btw, have you tried Deathwatch 40K? It has a lot of flaws(the worst offenders are: collectible random cards that can give you better weapons, better troopers, or random crap that show how bad the UI for selling stuff is, and slow animation speed because Spees Mehreens), but the maps are realy well crafted, and it definitely had an Incubation vibe. That said, there are some game crashing bugs left on some configs, so you'd rather be sure to test it in the first 14 days if you do.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I’m pretty sure ITB was popular enough to make Subset a tidy profit; not FTL levels of profit, but that game was lightning in a bottle for indie game sales.
For what it’s worth I loved ITB, but I can also totally understand why someone would be underwhelmed or uninterested in it. It reeeeaaaally straddles that line of puzzler vs tactics.