Development Info InXile consults academics to create Wasteland authenticity

[Vault Dweller]

So, "doesn't fit the setting" is bad but "fit the setting" is irrelevant/unnecessary? I guess I can't suspend my disbelief enough to see the logic behind that.

This is a sequel to Wasteland, so the setting is already established. Fargo got 3 mil for one simple reason - 60k people liked Wasteland enough to pay generously for another Wasteland game. So, all Brian needs to do now is make a faithful sequel.

 

[Oesophagus]

I can see why people are butthurt over this. I mean it's not like he made W1 and F1/2 without constantly interacting with the fanbase over every detail

Wasn't Fargo responsible for the tone of Fallout? The exact issue discussed in this thread?

 

[DwarvenFood]

So, "doesn't fit the setting" is bad but "fit the setting" is irrelevant/unnecessary? I guess I can't suspend my disbelief enough to see the logic behind that.

This is a sequel to Wasteland, so the setting is already established. Fargo got 3 mil for one simple reason - 60k people liked Wasteland enough to pay generously for another Wasteland game. So, all Brian needs to do now is make a faithful sequel.

A lot of those people did not play Wasteland 1, we don't know the exact numbers but I'd say at least 25%.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It was Boyarsky.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Jesus fucking Christ, Infinitron. There is no interaction. Sure, he reads the forums and comments every now and then, but this is not real interaction and I'm sure you're aware in which context the word is being used.

Sure, the context of having exciting forum discussions with inXile staff and having new info about development revealed regularly. The former, again, I'm not sure if that's a realistic expectation.

I don't care about the former. When I say interaction, I don't mean chatting with the developers. I'm talking about developers presenting their design ideas, gathering feedback, and discussing key points when necessary.

The latter - like I said, we'll see what happens when they start production proper.

What's wrong with discussing ideas openly while they are being discussed and finalized internally, again?

 

[Infinitron]

I don't care about the former. When I say interaction, I don't mean chatting with the developers. I'm talking about developers presenting their design ideas, gathering feedback, and discussing key points when necessary.

Hmm, that sounds like both the "former" and "latter" to me.

What's wrong with discussing ideas openly while they are being discussed and finalized internally, again?

Nothing's wrong with it, I would have liked to see more information by now too. But it seems they just don't roll like that. Perhaps we should make an attempt to discover why?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't care about the former. When I say interaction, I don't mean chatting with the developers. I'm talking about developers presenting their design ideas, gathering feedback, and discussing key points when necessary.

Hmm, that sounds like both the "former" and "latter" to me.

It's not. It's more like the reaction to the mock up screen:

- developer posts design ideas or show some visual stuff
- feedback
- developer posts a reaction (make adjustments, explains better, defends his vision, etc)

What's wrong with discussing ideas openly while they are being discussed and finalized internally, again?

Nothing's wrong with it, I would have liked to see more information by now too. But it seems they just don't roll like that. Perhaps we should make an attempt to discover why?

Let's get some ninja suits and sneak inside their offices after dark?

 

[Infinitron]

Let's get some ninja suits and sneak inside their offices after dark?

I was thinking more of pestering MCA about it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't think he would comment on how another developers runs his business.

 

[Kosmonaut]

Fanbois gonna fanboi.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't think he would comment on how another developers runs his business.

"Another developer"? He's working for them.

 

[Vault Dweller]

He is also Obsidian's Creative Director. I don't think he considers himself an inXile's employee.

 

[Infinitron]

He is also Obsidian's Creative Director. I don't think he considers himself an inXile's employee.

The point is, he has inside information. What's with the defeatist attitude? If we really want more information about this game it's time to start bugging people. We raised 10k for this, didn't we?

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's not defeatism, it's being realistic. Avellone is a chief officer of another company. He will not comment on what a chief officer of another company is doing. If you want to ask someone, ask Fargo directly, although in this case, the explanation is less important than the fact itself.

What's important is that he isn't doing it, not why he isn't doing it. Maybe that's what he's used to. Maybe he thinks it's better this way. Maybe he doesn't see the need to share.

 

[Alex]

Well, on that subject, Fargo commented a bit how the normal publisher method slows down development and costs resources with the need to show the publishers what they are doing. So maybe he thinks that taking a more open development approach would be a waste of money. I mean, trying to explain what you are doing to a wide audience would consume even more time than making a small presentation to a publisher, I guess.

 

[toro]

Well, on that subject, Fargo commented a bit how the normal publisher method slows down development and costs resources with the need to show the publishers what they are doing. So maybe he thinks that taking a more open development approach would be a waste of money. I mean, trying to explain what you are doing to a wide audience would consume even more time than making a small presentation to a publisher, I guess.

Maybe he just wants to show something outstanding and he is taking his time. Cause the comments for the last "screenshot" were not so good...

 

[Alex]

Maybe he just wants to show something outstanding and he is taking his time. Cause the comments for the last "screenshot" were not so good...

Maybe. I don't mean to say he is not showing enough, just trying to present a possible reason as for why he wouldn't adopt a more open development model, like the one Vault Dweller suggests.

 

[hiver]

Also, I believe that in order to communicate good science, you don’t need to bother a player with details. Our consultants are expected to be able to communicate their theses to an eight-year-old within five minutes — should an eight-year-old be interested.

http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/26/thwacke-wasteland-2-interview/​

 

[St. Toxic]

People were willing to trust the guy with 3 mil when there was nothing to show and that's a big vote of confidence in his abilities. If Fargo needed babysitting, it'd be part of the contract before anyone pitched in. The forum discussions over there cover essentially every aspect of every game, and there's definitely some genuine feedback involved with design specifics openly being discussed. Nobody interested in the game would argue against, say, weekly disclosures, progress reports, screen of the day etc, but stuff like that has a time and a place i.e when you're well into development and no longer threatened by deadlines. Besides, it doesn't actually add anything new other than a concrete foundation for discussions that are already taking place but with rough estimates, and perhaps a feeling of personal involvement in the project on the fan-side. Either way, fan feedback isn't something you take in as much as wade through. Fans in general are brainless and add nothing of value, and the clever ones mainly just poke holes in things for the hell of it.

Also, I approve of the SCIENCE! Maybe it's over-thinking it, but good sci-fi authors either know, or consult someone who does, to get their shit straight and this is no different.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, on that subject, Fargo commented a bit how the normal publisher method slows down development and costs resources with the need to show the publishers what they are doing. So maybe he thinks that taking a more open development approach would be a waste of money. I mean, trying to explain what you are doing to a wide audience would consume even more time than making a small presentation to a publisher, I guess.

Maybe he just wants to show something outstanding and he is taking his time. Cause the comments for the last "screenshot" were not so good...

Cause the last "screenshot" wasn't so good.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Also, I believe that in order to communicate good science, you don’t need to bother a player with details. Our consultants are expected to be able to communicate their theses to an eight-year-old within five minutes — should an eight-year-old be interested.

http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/26/thwacke-wasteland-2-interview/​

Also from that interview:

Alvarado: Deus Ex [Human Revolution] and Mass Effect did their homework. BioShock also gets points for crafting an interesting balance between stem cells and molecular biology.

Bioshock wut? Sea slug juice lets you shoot bugs from your arms? Thank god they crafted a balance between stem cells and molecular biology, otherwise that would have been retarded.

Upon further reflection, I doubt thwacke will impede the games ridiculousness quotient one bit.

 

[Infinitron]

I think maybe John Alvarado is just giving a relative a leg up in the industry with this.

 

[Burning Bridges]

This can be good. For example Shogun Total War (the original) had Stephen Turnbull involved, and I think that was the reason it was so great.

 

[Excidium]

This can be good. For example Shogun Total War (the original) had Stephen Turnbull involved, and I think that was the reason it was so great.

It's totally the same thing.

 

[Monocause]

This can be good. For example Shogun Total War (the original) had Stephen Turnbull involved, and I think that was the reason it was so great.

I'd consider having history buffs or historians on the team while creating an historical wargame a barebones necessity, not a bonus. It's a pretty specific genre. Otherwise you end up with shit like burning pig regiments or these Roman Ninja guys - Arcani, I believe - that just piss people off. History of warfare is rich in interesting detail on its own and introducing your own magical shit is just a sign of incompetence.

TBH we can't know what the Thwacke guys are going to do and how it's going to work for the game, so I don't know if it's worth discussing. ATM Fargo's just posting stuff from time to time to let people know that the team's at work, to create an impression that there's progress. If he doesn't post meaningful stuff it means that he isn't ready to post meaningful stuff yet, which isn't a huge surprise, at least for me. I always thought that Q4 2013 is a weirdly optimistic target considering that the game needs to be written basically from scratch as there's not much resources the devs can reuse from the original. Sure, there's some basic design directions, a basic art direction, lore, perhaps musical score - but I seriously doubt that all this will help them to finish developing in a single year.

If there is science at all I prefer it to be either decent science or SCIENCE!. The worst thing happens when a game tries to present something in a scientific manner and fails horribly at that. I recently played UFO:Aftermath and mutant design and autopsy results were plain stupid, exactly because it seemed that the devs tried to make it plausible but failed horribly.

I think having a consultant handy can only be of help if he's just that - a consultant and not an actual designer.