Is dodge rolling a decline mechanic?

[Lyric Suite]

Dodge rolling sucks and it's gay. It looks goofy as fuck. And it's doubly retarded if it comes with "i-frames".

Parrying though, parrying is a god-tier mechanic that actually rewards skillful timing instead of just "press button to become invincible and roll out of harm's way".

I like this because i'm pretty sure FromSoft probably heard this kind of criticism which is why it considered making dodge rolling based on timing just like parrying, but that apparently just made people screech more.

"Hahaha dodge rolling is so stupid all you gotta do is press button to avoid damage real chads use parry with precise timing!"

FromSoft makes rolling time sensitive like parry.

"Noooo not like that, why can't it be simple like old Souls?"

Not saying you have to like the direction FromSoft has decided to take the combat or that there aren't valid criticims to make, but what i'm seeing here is people who your mind to hating a mechanic because it's now fashionable to hate it.

Here, let me ask something. WHY is dodge rolling bad? WHY are i-frames bad? Also, why weren't they bad before when Souls was this niche thing everybody loved? Is a mechanic bad if it becomes mainstream (i mean, assuming that's the case. I still have to play a game with dodge rolls and stamina mechanic that isn't a Souls-like).

 

[Gerrard]

I-frames are a crutch for devs who don't want to bother with putting attention into enemy design, player has i-frames = can make enemy attacks that are unavoidable by any other means.
As a player, having i-frames means you don't have to think about positioning or the direction in which you dodge nearly as much.
They're really only excusable in online environments due to impact of latency.

 

[Svejk]

Just play Dragon's Dogma (1 or 2). You can go full-on offensive, look cool, and no pussy lock-on.

 

[Ezekiel]

Just play Dragon's Dogma (1 or 2). You can go full-on offensive, look cool, and no pussy lock-on.

Devil May Cry 3 has a better fighting system, thanks to lock-on/Z-targeting, although the enemies in that whole series are too passive to represent the best that action games have to offer.

 

[JarlFrank]

I-frames are a crutch for devs who don't want to bother with putting attention into enemy design, player has i-frames = can make enemy attacks that are unavoidable by any other means.
As a player, having i-frames means you don't have to think about positioning or the direction in which you dodge nearly as much.
They're really only excusable in online environments due to impact of latency.

Bleak Faith: Forsaken had no i-frames when it launched, the dodge roll existed to quickly roll out of the way to reposition yourself.
They added i-frames to the dodge roll when the negative reviews came flooding in

Still a great game and you can win against most enemies without dodge rolling, just positioning, since enemy behavior wasn't changed. Sad that they had to implement this to keep their review score up, though.

 

[Zombra]

Controllers and couch gaming is for the poors. I will never use a controller.

Insisting on playing any game using subpar controls is stupid. If you really want to walk the walk, stop playing all games primarily designed for controllers.

 

[Nutmeg]

Streets of Rage and many other old games didn't need it. You find your spacing

The usual story goes that spacing based action doesn't work well in 3D due to depth ambiguity, hence you *need* iframe dodge buttons in 3D third person action games.

This story isn't really true though as SpikeOut demonstrates, so it's really a matter of fads and developer laziness.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Dodge-rolling is the new popamole mechanics.

 

[illuknisaa]

Rolling is an evasion mechanic. Pretty much every action game has evasion mechanics one way or the other. They can be as simple has right clicking your character to move a different spot or more complex like you seen in elden ring.

Rolling is just an animation. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I think it clearly communicates that the pc is making an evasive move and how long it lasts. In witcher 3 ciri uses teleportation as the dodge but it is no different from geralts roll.

 

[abija]

You can put it however you want, the fact remains. This (M&K being vastly inferior to controller) is basically true for most other games as well, except FPS or tactical/isometric games where mouse control is important.

If you play with your feet...

 

[JarlFrank]

Controllers and couch gaming is for the poors. I will never use a controller.

Insisting on playing any game using subpar controls is stupid. If you really want to walk the walk, stop playing all games primarily designed for controllers.

Mouse and keyboard isn't "subpar" for soulslikes by any means.

 

[Lyric Suite]

As a player, having i-frames means you don't have to think about positioning or the direction in which you dodge nearly as much.

I can see why people are struggling so much with ER if they actually believe that's the case.

Most of the so called "undodgable" combos in that game require positioning and direction.

I also wonder how many people claiming i-frames are just a result of laziness even know how often they are used. You guys know that DMC has i-frames, right?

To me, all this obsession with what's going on under the hood in a combat system feels like autism without a cause. If the end result is fun and engaging, who gives a shit what kind of coding trickery the devs used to get us there?

 

[Fedora Master]

Devs seem to like to add dodge rolling even when the game and its mechanics don't gel with it, or as a crutch to excuse shit balance.

 

[Gerrard]

I-frames are a crutch for devs who don't want to bother with putting attention into enemy design, player has i-frames = can make enemy attacks that are unavoidable by any other means.
As a player, having i-frames means you don't have to think about positioning or the direction in which you dodge nearly as much.
They're really only excusable in online environments due to impact of latency.

Bleak Faith: Forsaken had no i-frames when it launched, the dodge roll existed to quickly roll out of the way to reposition yourself.
They added i-frames to the dodge roll when the negative reviews came flooding in

Still a great game and you can win against most enemies without dodge rolling, just positioning, since enemy behavior wasn't changed. Sad that they had to implement this to keep their review score up, though.

Witcher 3 never had i-frames.