Fallout Is Fallout: New Vegas a worthy Fallout game?

[GrafvonMoltke]

"newfags"

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

With a combat mod that lowers everyone's hitpoints (yours and NPCs), absolutely! Without the mod, the combat is just too much of a drag (Bethesda school of bloated hitpoint combat).

The setting, the exploration, the dialogue, the factions, those are all well done, so with the combat inclined by a mod, FNV is a definite member of Fallout lineage.

 

[Lemming42]

Hmm, I've used mods like that because I can't stand bullet sponges, but the problem is that it renders combat even more of a glaring issue.

Bethesda obviously introduced the problem with Fallout 3 - you can't really have character starts determine combat effectiveness in the way that they did in Fo1/Fo2, because the series has been inexplicably made into an FPS, so every character build is proficient at combat regardless of skill point allocation. The only difference, as far as I know, is that you arbirtrarily do more damage at higher skill levels and your VATS aim improves.

Reducing the hitpoints makes the combat a lot more fun (or perhaps just more tolerable by making it end quicker), but also exacerbates that problem and makes it so that you might as well just pump all your skillpoints into non-combat skills since the only motivation to invest in weapon skills has been essentially removed. Double edged sword.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah, but realistically, with those Bethesda engines, this is your choice:

1. Absolute shit RPG combat
2. Fun FPS combat.

The choice is pretty obvious, imho.

 

[laclongquan]

Let me put one point up here:

For a realistic FPS combat system with stat, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas developers simply doesnt explore that far on that aspect. For very understandable reasons.

Why? Stat versus derivative stat. If they develop to the point that worthy to consider, it would be a very hard game that send FPS players as well as RP gamers run away screaming.

Example: stat/skill in shooting. They simply doesnt make stats and gun skills affect shooting a guns to the fullest. Say, if you cant satisfy a minimal req for stat and skill (which is set low enough as it is) the swaying and recoiling just not very noticeable, thus they become not as important as it should be.

Take Obscurum Pandemic for example. It's a total conversion game in the framework of Embryo engine, aka absolutely different background lore, characters, guns and armors etc...
It set requirement to use some guns in both stat and skill very high. And if you cant satisfy that req, the guns will sway like a motherfucker. LIKE, M.O.T.H.E.R.F.U.C.K.E.R. A skilled shooter and a newbie has very different FEEL in shooting a gun. To the point that we would rather shoot a lowly pistol rather than change into a modern assault rifle. At least, not until we level waaaaaaay up our gun skill.

Thus, if FNV devs set it to worthy level of a shooter game affected by stat, it would be a very hard game and send both FPS shooter player as well as RP gamers run away screaming for very good reason.

 

[Jermu]

https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/p/fallout-new-vegas--ultimate-edition

free in china store

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Fuck that I'm giving my jew coin to the fatman

 

[Laz Sundays]

I gambled on the Strip until they kicked me out then bought plasma weapons and gunned down everyone within earshot of the Hoover Dam before beating Lanius with a speech check. New Vegas is incredible

The RPG equivalent of "I love this driving game, the physics are so bad, look how I can crash cars and they go flying unrealistically, it's so funny, great game"

YES.

 

[Laz Sundays]

..you can't really have character starts determine combat effectiveness in the way that they did in Fo1/Fo2, because the series has been inexplicably made into an FPS, so every character build is proficient at combat regardless of skill point allocation.

This is one of the FO3's main problems, often overlooked. The model just isn't fit for skills and they should've seen it right away. FO4 went full FPS and removed skills completely, and it was the smartest thing they did in a loooong time.

Still, shitty Fallouts regardless. But I'm glad they occasionally learn something.

 

[laclongquan]

..you can't really have character starts determine combat effectiveness in the way that they did in Fo1/Fo2, because the series has been inexplicably made into an FPS, so every character build is proficient at combat regardless of skill point allocation.

This is one of the FO3's main problems, often overlooked. The model just isn't fit for skills and they should've seen it right away. FO4 went full FPS and removed skills completely, and it was the smartest thing they did in a loooong time.

Still, shitty Fallouts regardless. But I'm glad they occasionally learn something.

"smart"? It seem you and I have very different understanding of this word.

 

[Camel]

^ Yeah, as long as I'm ragging on the game (which I still think is one of the best games of all time overall), the Courier is boring as shit and never gets a chance to express him/herself through dialogue. Only very rarely do you get the chance to assert an opinion on anything or inject some personality into your speech; mostly you just ask people bland questions and make emotionless comments.

Which is weird when a big part of all the previous Fallout games is getting to act like a complete lunatic at any given opportunity. You'd be hard-pressed to find too many notable conversations in Fo1, Fo2 or Fo3 where you don't have the ability to say something surprising or funny or pointlessly cruel at some point (often with consequences such as turning NPCs hostile or barring the player from quests), but in New Vegas you're just sort of passive even when dealing with the most memorable characters. The Outer Worlds had the same thing going on, your character is just totally dull no matter how you try to play them, maybe it's an Obsidian thing.

I blame Sawyer for boring Courier, boring NPC party members and Mojave even has the most boring radio DJ ever. Three Dog was funny and it was hilarious listening to him berating you for evil deeds for all Capital Wasteland to hear. Compare with how the MC can interact with Enclave at Gecko.

 

[Laz Sundays]

..you can't really have character starts determine combat effectiveness in the way that they did in Fo1/Fo2, because the series has been inexplicably made into an FPS, so every character build is proficient at combat regardless of skill point allocation.

This is one of the FO3's main problems, often overlooked. The model just isn't fit for skills and they should've seen it right away. FO4 went full FPS and removed skills completely, and it was the smartest thing they did in a loooong time.

Still, shitty Fallouts regardless. But I'm glad they occasionally learn something.

"smart"? It seem you and I have very different understanding of this word.

FO3, a FPS Fallout, has a skill mechanic from old turn based isometric Fallouts dictate/override player's ability to hit something by cursor aim. Going full FPS in FO4 was a smart move. Natural move, "why did we even try to have skills in 3" move.

We have the same understanding of the word btw, I think you wanted to say different application of it? Which is fine, you don't think what they did was smart whereas I do. So come on then, why do you think it wasn't smart? I want to see an example of why people feel like isometric TB skills are somehow good for FPS

 

[laclongquan]

Point number 1: Fallout 3 is not a FPS Fallout game. Case in point: I almost never use FPS and totally just use VATS in combat without any problem. And outside of combat, I NEVER use FPS view and just purely over-the-shoulder camera. More like, 10 feet behind 101's back.

I know you FPS gamers were desperately trying to find the new brand for FPS genre, and Beth marketing boys manipulated you like a chuckie~ Still and all, F3 is not FPS Fallout.

Point number 2: The F4's jumping headfirst into FPS crowds to please them with lots of FPS mechanism, super dumb down story elements to satisfy their sloped brow brains, absolutely abandon retrofuturism art direction to choose COD/PUBG art style... , THAT I would never call it smart. It's a breaking with the old values and joining with the samey crowds. Fallout 4 just lose all the uniqueness of a Fallout game. I am quite interested in the next train wreck that is Fallout 5 . What will they break, now that they had broken all the worthwhile china in the house~

Dont worry, you mothers will pat on your back and tell your sloped brow boys you are being smart. Oh yes, who is the smartest chuckie in the house now~

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Never thought I'd see the day when people defend Fallout 3, but here we are

 

[laclongquan]

From an old Fallout gamer's POV, Fallout 3 is obviously better than Fallout 4 with all its doodaads. At the very least, F3 look like a proper post apocalyptic RPG.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Wasn't a put down, I just genuinely despair at the state of the franchise

 

[laclongquan]

Yeah~ Fallout 4 is, probabbly, a good game with plenty of mods.

It's just not a good Fallout game~ Never have any urge to try it, despite many great mods~

 

[Stavrophore]

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

And?

 

[Sykar]

From an old Fallout gamer's POV, Fallout 3 is obviously better than Fallout 4 with all its doodaads. At the very least, F3 look like a proper post apocalyptic RPG.

Failderp 3 is irredeemable garbage.

 

[Hirato]

I did play some heavily modded Fallout 4 this year (yay for modlists).
I can certainly agree that compared to Fallout 3, Fallout 4 is a far better game, but also a much worse Fallout.
Which is saying something, because Fallout 3 was previously the worst fallout to date.

Unfortunately Fallout 4 is not a very good modding sandbox either.
A biggest reason being a rather serious bug (with no community fix) wherein assets on occasion are only loaded partially.
Most of the time it's fairly harmless and manifests as characters missing their bodies, or having faces with screwed up normals (aka the Rusty Face bug).
But sometimes it tries to run physics on these meshes, and then promptly crashes. This is particularly bad around Good Neighbour in a heavily modded game, especially if you don't completely strip the bodies as you go on.
The 2nd reason is the UI - It's the worst UI I've ever seen in a AAA game; they somehow made it far worse than vanilla Skyrim's.
And there's also no equivalent to SkyUI to replace it either; there are a few that work in tandem to improve parts (e.g. XDI), or completely sidestep others (e.g. Quick Change Armor).
But there's nothing that really fixes it, especially that godawful pipboy... which they somehow made even worse than fallout 3's!

 

[laclongquan]

From an old Fallout gamer's POV, Fallout 3 is obviously better than Fallout 4 with all its doodaads. At the very least, F3 look like a proper post apocalyptic RPG.

Failderp 3 is irredeemable garbage.

Even so, it's Fallout garbage.

Fallout 4 does not even look Fallout to begin with~

 

[laclongquan]

I did play some heavily modded Fallout 4 this year (yay for modlists).
I can certainly agree that compared to Fallout 3, Fallout 4 is a far better game, but also a much worse Fallout.
Which is saying something, because Fallout 3 was previously the worst fallout to date.

If you ever install and play Tale of Two Wasteland, after sometime you would feel the urge to try Fallout 3 in its full washed-out urban-ruined glory. Damn thing look ugly, butyou will definitely feel that urge. Despite all that weakness, Fallout3 does have genuine charms of its own.

No matter how good F4 look, I never get that urge. It just doesnt look fallout-y at all~ If I ever plan to play it, it will be for other reasons, not because it's a fallout game. Because it's not.

 

[ind33d]

I did play some heavily modded Fallout 4 this year (yay for modlists).
I can certainly agree that compared to Fallout 3, Fallout 4 is a far better game, but also a much worse Fallout.
Which is saying something, because Fallout 3 was previously the worst fallout to date.

Unfortunately Fallout 4 is not a very good modding sandbox either.
A biggest reason being a rather serious bug (with no community fix) wherein assets on occasion are only loaded partially.
Most of the time it's fairly harmless and manifests as characters missing their bodies, or having faces with screwed up normals (aka the Rusty Face bug).
But sometimes it tries to run physics on these meshes, and then promptly crashes. This is particularly bad around Good Neighbour in a heavily modded game, especially if you don't completely strip the bodies as you go on.
The 2nd reason is the UI - It's the worst UI I've ever seen in a AAA game; they somehow made it far worse than vanilla Skyrim's.
And there's also no equivalent to SkyUI to replace it either; there are a few that work in tandem to improve parts (e.g. XDI), or completely sidestep others (e.g. Quick Change Armor).
But there's nothing that really fixes it, especially that godawful pipboy... which they somehow made even worse than fallout 3's!

Honestly if you want to play modded Fallout 4, just play 76

 

[Jermu]