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Is InXile a Ponzi scheme?

CRD

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Dec 23, 2014
Messages
297
Divinity: Original Sin 2
I don't get why he's still using crowdfunding when the dude lives in a 5$m+ mansion.

Because he want to continue living there. If he had risked his money to make W2/Torment and then tried to sell people the final releases and not the concepts, right now he would be under a bridge. So, we can concede that to him, he knows how to do business without risking his money.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Messages
1
Nobody should willfully give InXile their actual money.

Wasteland 2 was a fucking tragedy. Unity engine is already bad enough, but incompetent programming coupled with that shitty engine equated to a frustrating mess of crashes, freeze-ups and to this day, I still can't play that fucking game without some sort of crash.
 

Luckmann

Arcane
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Scandinavia
I don't get why he's still using crowdfunding when the dude lives in a 5$m+ mansion.

Because he want to continue living there. If he had risked his money to make W2/Torment and then tried to sell people the final releases and not the concepts, right now he would be under a bridge. So, we can concede that to him, he knows how to do business without risking his money.
Well he does come from a Jewish line of bankers, so this behaviour shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
 

Chris Avelltwo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
678
Since 2012, inxile has done 4 kickstarters and released 1 game, their upcoming game (Torment) has suffered major content cuts to make it to release, including a surprise console launch and involvement with outside money in the form of a publisher.

2 games now, and the other 2 kickstarters weren't that long ago to be concerned about them not being out yet. Also both these games have been well received by both critics and customers. Cut content sucks, but sometimes its necessary for various reasons. It happens all the time in this business, in fact probably most games have cut content to some degree because its far easier to think of an idea than it is to actually make it happen. The console launch wasn't a surprise because that was announced months ago, and that was also done with Wasteland 2 as well. Keeping the game PC exclusive wouldn't make as much money as going multi-platform. It was a logical move and a smart business decision.

So no, there's no wrongdoing here and it isn't a Ponzi scheme. Its just business. I think your problem isn't really with Brian Fargo; it is with capitalism in general. Without Brian Fargo a lot of great franchises like Wasteland would never exist to begin with, let alone be brought back today. The man is a legend and deserves far better than this shit. Why don't you hurl your slings and arrows at someone more deserving - like, say, Todd Howard?
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,464
Because he want to continue living there. If he had risked his money to make W2/Torment and then tried to sell people the final releases and not the concepts, right now he would be under a bridge. So, we can concede that to him, he knows how to do business without risking his money.

There was a discussion a while ago about how he was getting cucked left right and center by women, including a link to a gossip peddling site (this is one of them I think, just look at the thread title) about his wife. Infinitron can pitch in with the details, psure it was him who dug it up.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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Messages
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http://steamcommunity.com/id/oldtimer/recommended/272270/

sea said:
Torment had a budget that exceeded the initial Kickstarter goal significantly. We used not just crowdfunding, but multiple millions from our own back catalog sales, to develop Torment over the last 4 years.

Crowdfunded total, minus Kickstarter fees plus the additional money they raised on their own: around $4.6 million

Additional millions would make that 6.6 million at the very least.

Backers: 74,405
Current owners: 79,925

:hero:

Can the ponzi scheme last long enough to see Fargo though retirement age? :shredder:
 

Kem0sabe

Arcane
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Messages
13,136
Location
Azores Islands
2 games now, and the other 2 kickstarters weren't that long ago to be concerned about them not being out yet. Also both these games have been well received by both critics and customers. Cut content sucks, but sometimes its necessary for various reasons. It happens all the time in this business, in fact probably most games have cut content to some degree because its far easier to think of an idea than it is to actually make it happen. The console launch wasn't a surprise because that was announced months ago, and that was also done with Wasteland 2 as well. Keeping the game PC exclusive wouldn't make as much money as going multi-platform. It was a logical move and a smart business decision.

So no, there's no wrongdoing here and it isn't a Ponzi scheme. Its just business. I think your problem isn't really with Brian Fargo; it is with capitalism in general. Without Brian Fargo a lot of great franchises like Wasteland would never exist to begin with, let alone be brought back today. The man is a legend and deserves far better than this shit. Why don't you hurl your slings and arrows at someone more deserving - like, say, Todd Howard?
Sounds eerily like something dildolos would say.
 

cruelio

Augur
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
370
http://steamcommunity.com/id/oldtimer/recommended/272270/

sea said:
Torment had a budget that exceeded the initial Kickstarter goal significantly. We used not just crowdfunding, but multiple millions from our own back catalog sales, to develop Torment over the last 4 years.

Crowdfunded total, minus Kickstarter fees plus the additional money they raised on their own: around $4.6 million

Additional millions would make that 6.6 million at the very least.

Backers: 74,405
Current owners: 79,925

:hero:

Can the ponzi scheme last long enough to see Fargo though retirement age? :shredder:

I'm struggling to figure out how they spent even the kickstarter amount on that game. Didn't make their own engine, graphics fine for a crpg but nowhere near AAA level, almost no cinematics, not a lot of voice acting, medium length. Does it cost millions of dollars to rip off Planescape's main plot and add bits of pieces from a different tabletop setting to it??? PS4 porting must be expensive.
 

cruelio

Augur
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
370
Since 2012, inxile has done 4 kickstarters and released 1 game, their upcoming game (Torment) has suffered major content cuts to make it to release, including a surprise console launch and involvement with outside money in the form of a publisher.

2 games now, and the other 2 kickstarters weren't that long ago to be concerned about them not being out yet. Also both these games have been well received by both critics and customers. Cut content sucks, but sometimes its necessary for various reasons. It happens all the time in this business, in fact probably most games have cut content to some degree because its far easier to think of an idea than it is to actually make it happen. The console launch wasn't a surprise because that was announced months ago, and that was also done with Wasteland 2 as well. Keeping the game PC exclusive wouldn't make as much money as going multi-platform. It was a logical move and a smart business decision.

So no, there's no wrongdoing here and it isn't a Ponzi scheme. Its just business. I think your problem isn't really with Brian Fargo; it is with capitalism in general. Without Brian Fargo a lot of great franchises like Wasteland would never exist to begin with, let alone be brought back today. The man is a legend and deserves far better than this shit. Why don't you hurl your slings and arrows at someone more deserving - like, say, Todd Howard?

Without Brian Fargo those franchises and CRPGs in general wouldn't have disappeared from existence for over a decade because he drove his company into the ground making awful decision after awful decision including going all in on cinematic gaming and now only exists to rip off kickstarter retards by playing off their nostalgia and ignorance of his many many failures.
 

Chris Avelltwo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
678
Without Brian Fargo those franchises and CRPGs in general wouldn't have disappeared from existence for over a decade

You're right. They wouldn't have disappeared, because they never would have existed in the first place.

because he drove his company into the ground making awful decision after awful decision including going all in on cinematic gaming

Mistakes were made, sure. He might have drove his company into the ground but he made it what it was to begin with. Cinematic gaming seemed like the future at the time, much like VR is today. It didn't work out, but hindsight is 20/20.

now only exists to rip off kickstarter retards by playing off their nostalgia and ignorance of his many many failures.

Those "kickstarter retards" are free to never back inXile's games ever again if they feel ripped off. How many people who backed Wasteland 2 or Torment felt ripped off? Maybe they fell short of the expectations some people had, but that's a far cry from being "ripped off". Those games aren't vaporware; they are real products that have been released, and they're not shit. The fact there are so many backers of Wasteland 3 proves those people were satisfied with Wasteland 2 and want to see more.

If this is a Ponzi scheme then Wasteland 3 will be vaporware. We'll just see about that in a few years. You speak of ignorance of his "many many failures", but what about ignoring his many many successes?
 

Bocha

Novice
Joined
Apr 14, 2016
Messages
35
At the moment we have a small handful of developers doing crpg, instead of encouraging them to keep trying and giving constructive criticism, we treat them as scammers, useless crap etc ..., I predict a future with many great rpg (twitcher 8, mass effect 165, bethesda truck simulator)
 

Chris Avelltwo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
678
At the moment we have a small handful of developers doing crpg, instead of encouraging them to keep trying and giving constructive criticism, we treat them as scammers, useless crap etc ..., I predict a future with many great rpg (twitcher 8, mass effect 165, bethesda truck simulator)

Hear, hear!
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
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Messages
36,055
, instead of encouraging them to keep trying and giving constructive criticism, we treat them as scammers, useless crap etc

We did give inXile constructive criticism, their response was to blacklist the site. Hence scammers, useless crap.
 

bataille

Arcane
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
1,073
At the moment we have a small handful of developers doing crpg, instead of encouraging them to keep trying and giving constructive criticism, we treat them as scammers, useless crap etc ..., I predict a future with many great rpg (twitcher 8, mass effect 165, bethesda truck simulator)

Why would you encourage them? If they can't make the games without constant validation from the side, maybe they shouldn't have started in the first place.
For example, look at the developers of No Truce With The Furies. They are cool, smart and confident dudes (from their forum interaction and their poster work) that you just can't help but treat as emotional grownups, as equals. They are confident enough for your word not to destroy their motivation to create.
And then you have all these crybabies that are constantly on the verge of deleting their twitter accounts and abandoning their game for all the eternity that 3 days is.
To be honest, I'd rather see the future where smaller teams come to Codex for advice, criticism and general feedback than a bunch of corporate egomaniacs begging to give them five million dollars and telling you to fuck off until they make what they make (and don't you dare be dissatisfied).
'Encouraging them to keep trying' my ass. I say let these idiots get out and give some breathing room to stygs and begues, not divert people's attention to the special needs of the fragile triers.
 
Self-Ejected

IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
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Messages
7,407
$5,000,000.

Five million dollars.

Given to you before you even start.

Who gives a crap if it sells. You've got the 'profits' already, just make the freakin game, job done. It could have zero sales, you've still made 5... million... dollars. You've still earned a very substantial living for 4 years. Even if T:ToN took up the last penny on the last day and sold zero copies, you yourself have not lost money, just gained. It would be nice if we could see the actual balance sheet for where all the money went, exactly and in full detail. Just saying "blah blah blah graphics" doesn't really cut it IMO, it's still nothing more than the cost of employing some geek to sit in front of a computer for 8-12 hours a day, 5-7 days a week. Even if you paid 10 graphics experts $75,000 per year that's still only $3,000,000 of your budget, and I seriously doubt T:ToN had 10 graphics experts working full time on it. If it did, what were they doing all day every day?

Can someone who actually knows how balance sheets work provide a 'realistic' summary of how a short, relatively inane combat-wise, story-wise, game like T:ToN ends up costing $5,000,000. I'm genuinely curious how this stuff happens.
 

Kem0sabe

Arcane
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
13,136
Location
Azores Islands
$5,000,000.

Five million dollars.

Given to you before you even start.

Who gives a crap if it sells. You've got the 'profits' already, just make the freakin game, job done. It could have zero sales, you've still made 5... million... dollars. You've still earned a very substantial living for 4 years. Even if T:ToN took up the last penny on the last day and sold zero copies, you yourself have not lost money, just gained. It would be nice if we could see the actual balance sheet for where all the money went, exactly and in full detail. Just saying "blah blah blah graphics" doesn't really cut it IMO, it's still nothing more than the cost of employing some geek to sit in front of a computer for 8-12 hours a day, 5-7 days a week. Even if you paid 10 graphics experts $75,000 per year that's still only $3,000,000 of your budget, and I seriously doubt T:ToN had 10 graphics experts working full time on it. If it did, what were they doing all day every day?

Can someone who actually knows how balance sheets work provide a 'realistic' summary of how a short, relatively inane combat-wise, story-wise, game like T:ToN ends up costing $5,000,000. I'm genuinely curious how this stuff happens.
It cost more apparently, they funneled even more money from wasteland 2 sales into it.

Not sure how that will work for bards tale and wasteland 3, if torment tanks sales wise.

Maybe another couple of kickstarters before either is released.
 

Jarpie

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
6,615
Codex 2012 MCA
$5,000,000.

Five million dollars.

Given to you before you even start.

Who gives a crap if it sells. You've got the 'profits' already, just make the freakin game, job done. It could have zero sales, you've still made 5... million... dollars. You've still earned a very substantial living for 4 years. Even if T:ToN took up the last penny on the last day and sold zero copies, you yourself have not lost money, just gained. It would be nice if we could see the actual balance sheet for where all the money went, exactly and in full detail. Just saying "blah blah blah graphics" doesn't really cut it IMO, it's still nothing more than the cost of employing some geek to sit in front of a computer for 8-12 hours a day, 5-7 days a week. Even if you paid 10 graphics experts $75,000 per year that's still only $3,000,000 of your budget, and I seriously doubt T:ToN had 10 graphics experts working full time on it. If it did, what were they doing all day every day?

Can someone who actually knows how balance sheets work provide a 'realistic' summary of how a short, relatively inane combat-wise, story-wise, game like T:ToN ends up costing $5,000,000. I'm genuinely curious how this stuff happens.
It cost more apparently, they funneled even more money from wasteland 2 sales into it.

Not sure how that will work for bards tale and wasteland 3, if torment tanks sales wise.

Maybe another couple of kickstarters before either is released.

Like I wrote in the another topic, they might've scrapped a lot if not most of what they've done and relatively quickly stitched the game together. Would love to read what went on during the development as it doesn't feel like a game which has been in the development since 2013-2014.
 

Chris Avelltwo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
678
T:ToN had a very large team of professional writers working on it. I heard it may have even broke a world record for the most words of dialogue in a video game. So that alone is where a lot of the money went - all those professional writers had to be paid. The work of the writing team was finished months ago and they are now at work on Wasteland 3.

Just look at the game's credits at all the people involved in making it. That will give you a good idea where the money went, because all those people had to be paid for their time and labor. I'm not surprised the cost is what it is because look at how much it cost Obsidian to make POE, and then consider the added expenses of supporting consoles and self-publishing and marketing the game. Obsidian had help from Paradox to take care of that, but inXile did it themselves.

So called "AAA" titles like Skyrim or FO4 cost an order of magnitude higher than this. This may not be an "AAA" game, but its not like this was slapped together in RPGmaker. There are expenses involved in making games like this that I don't think most people realize.
 
Weasel
Joined
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Messages
1,865,661
I'm not surprised the cost is what it is because look at how much it cost Obsidian to make POE, and then consider the added expenses of supporting consoles and self-publishing and marketing the game. Obsidian had help from Paradox to take care of that, but inXile did it themselves.

Techland?
 
Self-Ejected

IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
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Messages
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T:ToN had a very large team of professional writers working on it. I heard it may have even broke a world record for the most words of dialogue in a video game. So that alone is where a lot of the money went - all those professional writers had to be paid. The work of the writing team was finished months ago and they are now at work on Wasteland 3.

Just look at the game's credits at all the people involved in making it. That will give you a good idea where the money went, because all those people had to be paid for their time and labor. I'm not surprised the cost is what it is because look at how much it cost Obsidian to make POE, and then consider the added expenses of supporting consoles and self-publishing and marketing the game. Obsidian had help from Paradox to take care of that, but inXile did it themselves.

So called "AAA" titles like Skyrim or FO4 cost an order of magnitude higher than this. This may not be an "AAA" game, but its not like this was slapped together in RPGmaker. There are expenses involved in making games like this that I don't think most people realize.

Dude, writers get paid a few grand to write entire novels. There's more penniless writers in this world than beggars. Unless they're hiring Steven King and George R R Martin I seriously doubt a writer or two is going to cost more than some valuation in the thousands.

As for credits screens, they tell you nothing about what each individual did, it could have 60 part-timers all doing a day every other week or it could be 5 dedicated full-timers.

The rest of the post is just hyperbole which ignored all the points in my initial question.
 

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