It's time to replay Torment, what do I need?

[Melcar]

In any case, attempting to justify piracy because the user does not or cannot directly do business with the people who created the original content just removes the profitability from the distributor, who in turn becomes more selective regarding where they will put their money in the future.

Yes, but PS:T is not distributed anymore, it's simply out of print. The only way to buy it is to get it second-hand, and then really nobody profits but the douchebag you're buying it from, and Ebay. It doesn't even register on the radar of publishers, distributors or developers.

Torrent it until it becomes available, or when this sick system changes (yeah like that's going to happen)...

Btw I really don't get it; the only thing whoever is holding the license has to do, is to put a version of PS:T on an online distribution service for $5. Easy income guaranteed.

I agree. If you sell your copy of PS:T you're a douchebag and a child molester. You just don't do it.

 

[Cogar]

In any case, attempting to justify piracy because the user does not or cannot directly do business with the people who created the original content just removes the profitability from the distributor, who in turn becomes more selective regarding where they will put their money in the future.

Yes, but PS:T is not distributed anymore, it's simply out of print. The only way to buy it is to get it second-hand, and then really nobody profits but the douchebag you're buying it from, and Ebay. It doesn't even register on the radar of publishers, distributors or developers.

Torrent it until it becomes available, or when this sick system changes (yeah like that's going to happen)...

Btw I really don't get it; the only thing whoever is holding the license has to do, is to put a version of PS:T on an online distribution service for $5. Easy income guaranteed.

I believe the game is available on GameTap, so it really is still available via an online distribution service.

However, let’s consider what would happen if some game is really no longer available for sale via a licensed source. In such a situation, I think the book analogy (another copyrighted medium) is appropriate. Even if a book is out of print, the law will not allow you to reproduce it (in the USA anyway). You have to find an original copy somewhere.

There is one additional point to consider. What if the demand stays high and someone decides to produce PS:T again? This actually happened to a classic film (to some of us anyway) "Pumping Iron." It was out of production for years and the original videotapes and DVDs sold for a lot of money via private sellers at Amazon and on Ebay. Then, 25 years after it was first released, they re-released it. It gave the public a chance to see it for a reasonable price and the company that re-released it made some money too. If the demand had gone away due to piracy, it might not have been re-released.

 

[Zhuangzi]

Okay, so it is basically unavailable. Gametap doesn't count because I object to it for a number of reasons and I don't think it's available outside the US anyway.

If it becomes available on GOG or Gamersgate or somewhere I will pay for it, but until then....

 

[janjetina]

It is available on eBay. That's how I got my 4 CD boxed copy.

 

[racofer]

Buying used copies of games is also considered a crime by the gaming industry.

 

[Zhuangzi]

It is available on eBay. That's how I got my 4 CD boxed copy.

That's not what I want - I want to download a copy and I'd prefer to pay for it. But if it's not available online, I'm not ferreting around on Ebay for a copy. :wink:

 

[Melcar]

Just take it like a man and live the rest of your wretched life with the torment of not being able to play PS:T.

 

[Cogar]

Buying used copies of games is also considered a crime by the gaming industry.

They discussed this at some length over at the Quarter-to-Three forums (and they are the types that would be interested in this topic). I recall the general consensus was that reselling and renting was OK but duplication (via disk copies or torrents) was not. Incidentally, the assumption was that the resold game needed to be removed from the original owner's computer and the rented version was not duplicated.

 

[racofer]

Buying used copies of games is also considered a crime by the gaming industry.

They discussed this at some length over at the Quarter-to-Three forums (and they are the types that would be interested in this topic). I recall the general consensus was that reselling and renting was OK but duplication (via disk copies or torrents) was not. Incidentally, the assumption was that the resold game needed to be removed from the original owner's computer and the rented version was not duplicated.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/11/epic-ceo-ponder.html

The secondary market is a huge issue in the United States. Our primary retailer makes the majority of its money off of secondary sales, and so you’re starting to see games taking proactive steps toward that by ... if you buy the retail version you get the unlock code," Capps told GamesIndustry.biz.

"I’ve talked to some developers who are saying ‘If you want to fight the final boss you go online and pay $20, but if you bought the retail version you got it for free’. We don’t make any money when someone rents it, and we don’t make any money when someone buys it used - way more than twice as many people played Gears than bought it,"

 

[Cogar]

I agree that not everyone in the industry has the same viewpoint. For the record, here is one of several threads over at Quarter to Three that discusses this issue--this time with respect to the somewhat abusive DRM implementation in Mass Effect. It later branches into renting and reselling. It is a very lengthy thread, but a good read on the topic. After 31 pages you can get a good feel for how representatives of the industry feel on the topic.

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk ... hp?t=44278

 

[Lesifoere]

Just take it like a man and live the rest of your wretched life with the torment of not being able to play PS:T.

That qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment. Don't do it.

 

[Zhuangzi]

Just take it like a man and live the rest of your wretched life with the torment of not being able to play PS:T.

That qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment. Don't do it.

Well, I hadn't heard of PS:T until around 3 months ago. That one seems to have passed me by completely. Living out here in rural Western Australia, digital distributors such as Gamersgate are a godsend. I got King's Bounty: The Legend on the day it was released. I'd still be waiting for the mythic DVD release if not for Gamersgate, and I'd have a 100 km drive to the nearest EB or Game anyway. So if I can't get something from Gamersgate or GOG, then I can't get it.

Curiously, I did manage to get a copy of HOMM V Tribes of the East from the local computer 'shop' here though.

 

[janjetina]

Buying used copies of games is also considered a crime by the gaming industry.

What has two thumbs and doesn't give a crap?

 

[Volourn]

"Buying used copies of games is also considered a crime by the gaming industry."

Only the law can determine what is a crime. At this time (for now), buying is used games is NOT illegal no matter how much game companies want it to be.

To me, an 80 year old sleeping with a 25 year old is a crime... but, is isn't.

 

[racofer]

Doesn't matter. The industry says so, everyone abides by their rules.

 

[oldmanpaco]

To me, an 80 year old sleeping with a 25 year old is a crime... but, is isn't.

When I'm 80 I'm pretty sure I would risk the jail time associated with that particular offense. It would probably just be a fine anyway.

 

[asper]

In any case, attempting to justify piracy because the user does not or cannot directly do business with the people who created the original content just removes the profitability from the distributor, who in turn becomes more selective regarding where they will put their money in the future.

Yes, but PS:T is not distributed anymore, it's simply out of print. The only way to buy it is to get it second-hand, and then really nobody profits but the douchebag you're buying it from, and Ebay. It doesn't even register on the radar of publishers, distributors or developers.

Torrent it until it becomes available, or when this sick system changes (yeah like that's going to happen)...

Btw I really don't get it; the only thing whoever is holding the license has to do, is to put a version of PS:T on an online distribution service for $5. Easy income guaranteed.

I believe the game is available on GameTap, so it really is still available via an online distribution service.

However, let’s consider what would happen if some game is really no longer available for sale via a licensed source. In such a situation, I think the book analogy (another copyrighted medium) is appropriate. Even if a book is out of print, the law will not allow you to reproduce it (in the USA anyway). You have to find an original copy somewhere.

Sure, it's illegal. But we're not talking here about what is legal or not, but about what is right and wrong. I don't consider it to be wrong to pirate a game, when you simply are not able to support the developers or distributors because the game is not in print.

There is one additional point to consider. What if the demand stays high and someone decides to produce PS:T again? This actually happened to a classic film (to some of us anyway) "Pumping Iron." It was out of production for years and the original videotapes and DVDs sold for a lot of money via private sellers at Amazon and on Ebay. Then, 25 years after it was first released, they re-released it. It gave the public a chance to see it for a reasonable price and the company that re-released it made some money too. If the demand had gone away due to piracy, it might not have been re-released.

How will piracy diminish the demand for a game, and buying it second hand will not? I think rather buying second hand will take the demand away, at least more so than piracy. Once they have a boxed copy from ebay, not many people will buy another copy from the developer. However, a larger amount of people will buy the boxed copy when it becomes available, after having torrented the game.

In your example the movie wasn't available, and people used whatever means to get it (second hand). And then it was re-released and they all bought it. I don't see why they wouldn't have bought it had they pirated the movie instead of buying it second hand.

I don't think piracy diminishes the demand for a new distribution of the game. It may even enlarge it; more people become acquainted with the game after torrenting, and may become fans, a small percentage of whom will buy a legal version, may it become available once again.

 

[Volourn]

"The industry says so, everyone abides by their rules."

O RLY? Must explain why I can buy used games at EB. I seriously doubt EB would sell used games if it was illegal. R00fles!

 

[racofer]

Because you are a filthy criminal.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

To me, an 80 year old sleeping with a 25 year old is a crime... but, is isn't.

When I'm 80 I'm pretty sure I would risk the jail time associated with that particular offense. It would probably just be a fine anyway.

His point is it's not a crime. Good luck getting a 25 year old to sleep w/ you

 

[DefJam101]

Why not just buy a 25 year old?

By the time you are 80 that kind of stuff will be legal, anyways.

 

[Cogar]

Sure, it's illegal. But we're not talking here about what is legal or not, but about what is right and wrong.

I take it that you didn’t pick up your medication this week.

I don't consider it to be wrong to pirate a game, when you simply are not able to support the developers or distributors because the game is not in print.

There is one additional point to consider. What if the demand stays high and someone decides to produce PS:T again? This actually happened to a classic film (to some of us anyway) "Pumping Iron." It was out of production for years and the original videotapes and DVDs sold for a lot of money via private sellers at Amazon and on Ebay. Then, 25 years after it was first released, they re-released it. It gave the public a chance to see it for a reasonable price and the company that re-released it made some money too. If the demand had gone away due to piracy, it might not have been re-released.

How will piracy diminish the demand for a game, and buying it second hand will not?

Easy--when the prices of "collectibles" games go up, people don't buy them but they still want them. Although marketing is more of an art than a science, companies looking around for revenue will judge what might sell (perhaps via astronomical prices in the reseller market) and then decide to try a re-release.

I think rather buying second hand will take the demand away, at least more so than piracy. Once they have a boxed copy from ebay, not many people will buy another copy from the developer. However, a larger amount of people will buy the boxed copy when it becomes available, after having torrented the game.

I agree that the few people that pay the high price of a "collectible" will not purchase another copy. The people who will spend $50-$100 for an out of print video are a small group. I beg to differ with regard to those who have a torrent copy. I suspect a high percentage of those will not purchase anything--and I believe you will find it very difficult to prove otherwise.

In your example the movie wasn't available, and people used whatever means to get it (second hand). And then it was re-released and they all bought it.

That's quite an assumption. Now, pay attention. The people who had it already did not buy it again. The people who wanted it but did not already have a copy bought it.

I don't see why they wouldn't have bought it had they pirated the movie instead of buying it second hand.

Why buy it again if you already have it? I bet if they are going to buy something, it will be something they don't have.

I don't think piracy diminishes the demand for a new distribution of the game. It may even enlarge it; more people become acquainted with the game after torrenting, and may become fans, a small percentage of whom will buy a legal version, may it become available once again.

A small percentage.

 

[oldmanpaco]

To me, an 80 year old sleeping with a 25 year old is a crime... but, is isn't.

When I'm 80 I'm pretty sure I would risk the jail time associated with that particular offense. It would probably just be a fine anyway.

His point is it's not a crime. Good luck getting a 25 year old to sleep w/ you

I know what his point was. My point remains valid.

 

[asper]

Uh, "not taken medication"? I feel fine, thanks.

So your point is that we should either buy superexpensive second hand copies, and make some douchebag richer, or not buy it at all and wait until somebody releases the work of art again? The chances of that happening are so slim that it seems masochism to not pirate it. Just wait for years and don't play PST, just so that the second-hand circuit can maybe be the motivation of some distributor to perhaps release it again...

I don't think this reasoning is very eccentric; I guess a lot of people pirate because they don't want to spend money which doesn't support the product in any direct way (buying second hand). Any distributor willing to rerelease it should acknowledge this.

I don't see why they wouldn't have bought it had they pirated the movie instead of buying it second hand.

Why buy it again if you already have it? I bet if they are going to buy something, it will be something they don't have.

To support the developers and to have a boxed copy. A lot of people buy games they like, after having pirated them. The same holds for music. Now if you already have a boxed second hand copy, you wouldn't as quickly buy one from the developers.

 

[Zhuangzi]

I agree with asper 100%

I will happily pay money for this game if I can find a reasonable way to do so. GOG or something similar would be the best option, and I guess it's way too late for a budget edition. A 9 year old game really should be available for purchase for download. I think that sites like GOG will only expand in coming years. This is a good thing.