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I doubt it was intentional but that's kinda fitting if it was doing it's best to be a tribute to wuxia/wirefu films. Those always seem like slap fights to me.
I didn't mind the combat so much, but it did feel snappy, especially with the arcane forms due to the auto-aim and the evasion iirc didn't feel like it had any momentum. Your character would dead-stop after every dodge, kinda similar to Fable: The Lost Chapters if anyone's played that.
In my current course of running through "middle period" BioWare (after doing KOTOR 2 and running through KOTOR currently, and having done ME a wee while ago), I've gotten into this.
It really deserves more love, but I think the combat just didn't seem to suit most people. Maybe it falls between two stools too much, or something. It's partly "press a button and something awesome happens" (though not quite awesome enough to be fully in that genre), and partly "you need to git gud" (but there's no high ceiling of skill compared to many other action combat games).
Meh, it's good enough for me, there is a bit of a skill level and learning to it, and enough variation in styles between, say, Thousand Cuts (fast) and White Demon (slow) to keep it feeling varied. But the main thing is the quests. Some of them are really very dark indeed. Like, I was just doing the thing with the orphan ghosts and the flood, and I teared up a bit when
the old man buried their bones.
And then on the other hand, you have something quite amusing with mildly witty dialogue, like
finding a husband for a gangstress.
It's all quite refreshing compared to the usual cliched European mediaeval fantasy paste.
There's a peculiar incongruity to it though - I mean, all the Asian stuff in it (the culture, mythology, magic, dress, buildings, etc.) seems to be pretty well researched (from my understanding of those things anyway), but it's all being delivered by whiny American accents and Valley Girl actresses and that type of thing. It's quite a weird effect really (I wonder what the VO was like for the Asian edition?)
I vaguely remember that there's a huge plot twist, though I don't remember the details of it; but I also vaguely remember seeing it coming a mile off at the time (it's kind of hinted in that the story you're given doesn't quite make sense, and the Water Dragon is giving you hints too).
That's interesting, you clearly have a far deeper knowledge of these types of games than I do. Can you link me an example of what you would consider more fluid, like a link to a YT vid or something? Or is it specifically responsiveness you're talking about?
Re. more wrestly-throwy stuff not being tactical - it is quite tactical, even if you're not talking about the extreme of Brazilian Ju Jitsu (which is literally physical Chess). It's all about dem moves and counter-moves and counter-counter-moves. And I think that RPS aspect could be quite interesting as one fighting style or component within a tactical RPG (especially if it's more towards the simmy side, trying to be realistic). e.g. in one turn you could make a move and the opponent has a chance of doing a counter, depending on their level of skill, that type of thing, and you have to pick a counter to that - all within one move, say.
Even without really any direct comparison to other games, stuff like your evasion moves just look and feel off, (and with movement in combat) and attacks like punches just kinda lack impact from what I remember of it. It wanted to be this action game, but the action gameplay was more something you had to put up with for the other aspects. Thankfully thought the normal fighting stuff wasn't anywhere as bad as the shooting sections which I've got to think they knew sucked since they just let you skip those; being a fan of those in the arcade it was an aspect I was looking forward to playing since it got talked up before the game came out, but after playing one of them I just skipped the others.
Heres some games with much nicer feeling combat and tighter controls, that are also doing martial arts stuff, and also have some wrestling or grappling aspect to them. These all would've come out around the same time as Jade Empire.
Wow, thanks for that. You learn something new every day - I had no idea that these sorts of games even existed! I just had a vague sense of fighting games as those 2-d things with sprites from prehistory.
I think the combat in Urban Reign there might have been the perfect style for Jade Empire.
Anyone with even the slightest interest in this trashpile (better than most of Bioware's catalogue as of 2022, but still a pretty lousy game) should check out the actually good wuxia CRPGs made by Heluo Studios: Tale of Wuxia, its prequel (infuriatingly titled a "Pre-Sequel" on steam) and Ho Tu Lo Shu. There's threads about them confined to the jrpg subforum, for some reason, even though these games have more character customizability, deeper turn-based combat, and more roleplaying choice and consequence than 99% of western RPGs in this century.
Just finished this game for the first time. I was really craving some BioWare cringe after replaying the Gothics & Fallouts & Age of Decadence back to back. But Jade Empire couldn't even deliver that. Dissapointing.
OP either has an asian fetish, is retarded, or both
Jade Empire I'd give about a 7/10 because I mostly play games for magic and kicking ass. KOTOR was about 4/10 for me but not bad. Mass Effect is... just not for me. The combat actually interested me, kinda, but not enough to put up with all that story and janky driving / walking around etc. I plan to try it again someday with speedhack.
lol "this game is better because i like magic and kicking ass and the setting so that means the other games are worse"
Jade Empire is the worst out of KOTOR, Dragon Age & Mass Effect by a long shot. It's not terrible, definitely better than Inquisition and other new BioWare shit but the fact it was their first foray into trying something new shows.
Side quests are decent but nothing new compared to the others. Setting is decent as well, just not fleshed out enough. Everything else is pure BioWare shit but with much less of the, god forgive me for uttering this phrase, "BioWare charm".
Lord_Potato pretty much layed out all the problems with it. This game is basically Mass Effect 2 but worse. In fact, it's more linear and on the rails at all points. Combat isn't good for "action" either. Fuck me, it's like all these kids who claim action games are tactical never played something that actually has depth. Go play some Quake or Counterstrike and even if it doesn't translate in setting, that's what actual tactics and deep mechanics mean. The "tactics" in this game were switch to the style that destroys the enemy type.
The game is short but somehow felt like a slog. The amount of dumb exposition was almost as bad as Inquisition. Half of Dirge spirit realm was Abbott and Water Dragon repeating the same thing over and over throughout the entire section. These problems are nowhere as pronounced in the other BioWare games of this era.
Oh, also this game has to take the crown for most cliche BioWare title. At least the others add a little onto the cliches, but this one does not. And who didn't see the Master Li thing coming from the beginning? Fuck me, even the Revan reveal was less obvious than this.
It was a more nuanced system than that, unlike KotOR. Closed Fist wasn't just "muahaha I'll do it but you need to pay" or some cringe clichéd "evil" aka being a dick to randos.
It was a more nuanced system than that, unlike KotOR. Closed Fist wasn't just "muahaha I'll do it but you need to pay" or some cringe clichéd "evil" aka being a dick to randos.
It's been quite a while, but I remember it being less laughable than KotOR. I might be wrong, and could be just remembering the few choices at the beginning before it went gonzo.
It's been quite a while, but I remember it being less laughable than KotOR. I might be wrong, and could be just remembering the few choices at the beginning before it went gonzo.
It really is the same pretty much, and what makes it more egregious is BioWare's claims that it wouldn't be that way.
When I end up with high "good" points I know the game fails to make proper pragmatic/"evil" choices because I despise playing an idealistic good guy as much as a retarded psychopath. What you might be remembering is flavour text in dialogue which sound like a closed fist mentality but only affect (sometimes, not always) the response you get from an NPC/companion, not the morality meter points. The actual choices that change your leaning are more of the same. Stupid evil which usually comes with higher monetary reward.
One of the only good choices on the Closed Fist side is recruiting Death's Hand. Unfortunately, that forces you to fuck your companions as well even if your reason is "I will use him until we beat Li, then I'll release his spirit". Which is stupid in and of itself, why are all but one of the companions made to outright reject this choice? In DA:O recruiting Loghain only causes Alistair to throw a hissy fit. Come to think of it, DA:O is the only BioWare game from KOTOR onwards where you're not hampered by a shit morality meter.
With the origins, it wouldn't have worked as easily, as they were kinda forced to make choices character and background-dependant rather than shoehorn the whole game and all choices into a binary morality system. Of course, they ditched that afterwards.
The only interesting Closed Fist moral dilemma that I took note of was the choice to force the slave girl to fight for her own life against the pirates who took her captive after you free her. That was the only choice that stuck to the flavor of the philosophy of hardening the weak for their own good. The rest were very standard shakedowns and random acts of cruelty, no different from the lions share in KotOR. KotOR still edged it out for satisfying evil options (not the same as dilemmas), mostly due to options on Korriban, but there were a few others on Kashyyyk and Manaan if your character recognizes the obvious inferior intelligence of the native populaces.
Jade Empire I'd give about a 7/10 because I mostly play games for magic and kicking ass. KOTOR was about 4/10 for me but not bad. Mass Effect is... just not for me. The combat actually interested me, kinda, but not enough to put up with all that story and janky driving / walking around etc. I plan to try it again someday with speedhack.
lol "this game is better because i like magic and kicking ass and the setting so that means the other games are worse"
Jade Empire is the worst out of KOTOR, Dragon Age & Mass Effect by a long shot. It's not terrible, definitely better than Inquisition and other new BioWare shit but the fact it was their first foray into trying something new shows.
I hated Mass Effect and thought KOTOR was ok/meh so I'd still prefer to play this. I like Dragon Age Origins more than all these games though. But even that had lots of issues. Jade Empire probably sucks if you play some of the builds. I only really liked it because the end game when I first played through it was good. I didn't have to run around chasing anything, I just stood still and switched through forms to beat up everything that came at me. But it could prevent all damage and burst damage and maybe even heal by switching forms and I had to do the right thing at the right time and time it well. I loved that. I want action RPG to mean something more like that, and not just Diablo or Dark Souls.
Although this thread was less about how good Jade Empire is and more about how everything else sucks now. Look at the other threads and see what people are playing. I'd rather play Angry Birds.
The Open Palm/Closed Fist mechanic was a good idea they didn’t follow through on. The only part of it I enjoyed was the ability to rationalize my petty acts of cruelty to my companions as actually being virtuous. I want to play the dickhead who thinks he can debate his way to being the good guy, its refreshing.
But thats the story of Jade Empire. A good idea that could have been great if they really tried.
From what I remember, the Open Palm-Closed Fist alignment split tended to get used more for neutral good vs chaotic evil than the general law vs chaos attitude they seemed to want to move towards.
A shame, it would have been very interesting to make the main villian be an Open Palm follower who's taken altruistic morals too far. Mix together something like Ultima V and Strange Journey's law route instead of the rerunning an unambigious light side/dark side story again.
Anyone with even the slightest interest in this trashpile (better than most of Bioware's catalogue as of 2022, but still a pretty lousy game) should check out the actually good wuxia CRPGs made by Heluo Studios: Tale of Wuxia, its prequel (infuriatingly titled a "Pre-Sequel" on steam) and Ho Tu Lo Shu. There's threads about them confined to the jrpg subforum, for some reason, even though these games have more character customizability, deeper turn-based combat, and more roleplaying choice and consequence than 99% of western RPGs in this century.
The first Tale of Wuxia game is translated decently enough but is by no means well done; whereas, the pre-sequel seems like it was just run fed through google translate and not even glanced over once afterwards. The fan machine translationm of Ho Tu Lo Shu is probably better than the presequel.
There's threads about them confined to the jrpg subforum, for some reason, even though these games have more character customizability, deeper turn-based combat, and more roleplaying choice and consequence than 99% of western RPGs in this century.
This is where all asian games go, if anything that is a good thing you can actually see them there instead of having them get buried 40 pages back in GRPG after a week.
The setting just never hooked me. Always prefered Dragon Age's medieval style. Glad they switched to it too since Dragon Age was originally supposed to be a Jade Empire spinoff.
