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Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

Shaki

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
1,719
Location
Hyperborea
It's cool that you want to play JA2. Go play JA2. It has Bobby Ray's and Skyrider in it, unlike all other Jagged Alliance games. It also looks almost exactly like JA2.
I just bought JA2 on GoG and downloaded 1.13 mod. Going to play a real tactical game.
I got no idea what I am doing with this mod, I will not touch any of the default settings and how I do not get raped in my first run. I am not using AI mod, just base 1.13.
Have you played JA2 before or is this your first run?
I've played JA2 long time ago, and later I've played JA:BiA

I really would avoid 1.13 unless you're extremely familiar with the game. Stracciatella is a good alternative option. You basically have to know the game inside and out to begin to make sense of 1.13's options and even if you do there's no way for you to know that, for example, the "new chance to hit" system is hot garbage. Among dozens of other new systems, none of which are tested / balanced against each other.

I've heard that 1.13 version 4870 is a little more reasonable but recent versions are basically "Scope Creep: The Vdeogame".

Also you sure have a lot of opinions about JA3 for having never played it. I don't think it actually plays the way you seem to think it does. It certainly didn't play the way I expected it to, and that was after watching lots of streams of the game and following development for several years. Not saying you have to give it a chance yourself if you don't want to but I wouldn't call your opinion on it very educated. I wouldn't trust a movie review from someone who hadn't watched it, personally.
My first playthrough of JA2 was with 1.13 and I wouldnt have it any other way. It's not that complicated, I think people who played a lot of vanilla might actually have a harder time adjusting to changes, since a lot of things they got used to work differently.
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
11,162
You are mad, she didn't like EE for BG1 and this is 50x worse
To be fair the only people who like the EEs were people who couldn't stop drooling long enough to install mods that already did everything the EE's did a decade earlier without shitting up the graphics.
 

Ryzer

Arcane
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
8,033
It's cool that you want to play JA2. Go play JA2. It has Bobby Ray's and Skyrider in it, unlike all other Jagged Alliance games. It also looks almost exactly like JA2.
I just bought JA2 on GoG and downloaded 1.13 mod. Going to play a real tactical game.
I got no idea what I am doing with this mod, I will not touch any of the default settings and how I do not get raped in my first run. I am not using AI mod, just base 1.13.
Have you played JA2 before or is this your first run?
I've played JA2 long time ago, and later I've played JA:BiA

I really would avoid 1.13 unless you're extremely familiar with the game. Stracciatella is a good alternative option. You basically have to know the game inside and out to begin to make sense of 1.13's options and even if you do there's no way for you to know that, for example, the "new chance to hit" system is hot garbage. Among dozens of other new systems, none of which are tested / balanced against each other.

I've heard that 1.13 version 4870 is a little more reasonable but recent versions are basically "Scope Creep: The Vdeogame".

Also you sure have a lot of opinions about JA3 for having never played it. I don't think it actually plays the way you seem to think it does. It certainly didn't play the way I expected it to, and that was after watching lots of streams of the game and following development for several years. Not saying you have to give it a chance yourself if you don't want to but I wouldn't call your opinion on it very educated. I wouldn't trust a movie review from someone who hadn't watched it, personally.
My first playthrough of JA2 was with 1.13 and I wouldnt have it any other way. It's not that complicated, I think people who played a lot of vanilla might actually have a harder time adjusting to changes, since a lot of things they got used to work differently.
Whoever who plays JA2 1.13 without Sevenfm modpacks clearly doesn't know to truly enjoy the ultimate Jagged alliance experience.
 

Lord of Riva

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
2,873
Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Finished the campaign yesterday, took my sweet time with it too, over 80 hours according to steam. I did save scum on occasion though, even replaying some battles multiple times trying various strategies.

Loved it. Maybe there are few things to improve in patches but the game is fun as hell already. My favourite change from JA2 was much bigger focus on questing and storytelling. Leaning heavily into RPG territory worked great for me.
I see all the storyfags love it. That explains it all.
It's not a story rich game.
 

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
6,024
Pathfinder: Wrath
Finished the campaign yesterday, took my sweet time with it too, over 80 hours according to steam. I did save scum on occasion though, even replaying some battles multiple times trying various strategies.

Loved it. Maybe there are few things to improve in patches but the game is fun as hell already. My favourite change from JA2 was much bigger focus on questing and storytelling. Leaning heavily into RPG territory worked great for me.
I see all the storyfags love it. That explains it all.
It's not a story rich game.

JA3 can actually be a good game and Archangel will have none of it. He has a game he hates in his head and that's it
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,524
Finished the campaign yesterday, took my sweet time with it too, over 80 hours according to steam. I did save scum on occasion though, even replaying some battles multiple times trying various strategies.

Loved it. Maybe there are few things to improve in patches but the game is fun as hell already. My favourite change from JA2 was much bigger focus on questing and storytelling. Leaning heavily into RPG territory worked great for me.
I see all the storyfags love it. That explains it all.
It's not a story rich game.

JA3 can actually be a good game and Archangel will have none of it. He has a game he hates in his head and that's it
Oh I will play it eventually once and I will "enjoy it" in same way I "enjoyed" my nuXcom 1 and nuXcom 2 runs. I finished them both (well 2 times each as I did new full runs with their expansions) on Impossible/Legendary Ironman but after they got good mods I never cared to play vanilla again and I never praised their design or called them good games.
Even with Long War mods neither are really good games.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,524
It's cool that you want to play JA2. Go play JA2. It has Bobby Ray's and Skyrider in it, unlike all other Jagged Alliance games. It also looks almost exactly like JA2.
I just bought JA2 on GoG and downloaded 1.13 mod. Going to play a real tactical game.
I got no idea what I am doing with this mod, I will not touch any of the default settings and how I do not get raped in my first run. I am not using AI mod, just base 1.13.
Have you played JA2 before or is this your first run?
I've played JA2 long time ago, and later I've played JA:BiA

I really would avoid 1.13 unless you're extremely familiar with the game. Stracciatella is a good alternative option. You basically have to know the game inside and out to begin to make sense of 1.13's options and even if you do there's no way for you to know that, for example, the "new chance to hit" system is hot garbage. Among dozens of other new systems, none of which are tested / balanced against each other.

I've heard that 1.13 version 4870 is a little more reasonable but recent versions are basically "Scope Creep: The Vdeogame".

Also you sure have a lot of opinions about JA3 for having never played it. I don't think it actually plays the way you seem to think it does. It certainly didn't play the way I expected it to, and that was after watching lots of streams of the game and following development for several years. Not saying you have to give it a chance yourself if you don't want to but I wouldn't call your opinion on it very educated. I wouldn't trust a movie review from someone who hadn't watched it, personally.
My first playthrough of JA2 was with 1.13 and I wouldnt have it any other way. It's not that complicated, I think people who played a lot of vanilla might actually have a harder time adjusting to changes, since a lot of things they got used to work differently.
Whoever who plays JA2 1.13 without Sevenfm modpacks clearly doesn't know to truly enjoy the ultimate Jagged alliance experience.
I will first try out default 1.13 experience and if I feel I need more I can look for mods for mods.
I am not even using new aiming system as it was not on by default with 1.13 I downloaded. I did turn on food/water system but maybe I should not have. One would expect all your starting mercs get a canteen and some food in that case.. I hate half finished feature bloat.
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
20,932
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria

Sunri

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
2,919
Location
Poland
Just started vanilla ja2 playthrough and weapons are even worse compared to 3 rifles triumph over everything lol
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
8,837
Here is my review of Jagged Alliance 3. You can read it here, or down below if you are interested.

One of the most abused, but beloved turn-based tactical PC franchises is back with another game. Earlier attempts go from abysmal to somewhat playable but often lacking soul. Through some fantastic luck (and skill?) this time it actually captures the classic feeling and is fun to boot. Jagged Alliance 3 has the essence of what once was, which is a rare instance of something old being updated to modern times and still manages to retain an old-school gaming feeling. It’s not without faults though. For example, the laptop shenanigans from Jagged Alliance 2 have been transferred over, but it has not been fully explored, which makes it feel like a cheap copy of the original. The basics are there, yet, all the fun flair, or at least most of it, is gone. The A.I.M mercenary recruitment page no longer comes off as a normal website either. Luckily other parts have much more effort put into it – like the combat, and story, which in turn makes this a worthwhile sequel to a fabled game.

Paradise lost
Another paradise island, another troubled region ravaged by war – this time: Africa. We are hired by the daughter of the kidnapped president to save her father and restore order to the country of Grand Chien. This will by done by capturing or killing the elusive “The Colonel” that started this resurrection that eventually turned the country to a hellscape of violence. Sounds like a relativity simple task, right? Just like kicking Dedrianna’s ass in Jagged Alliance 2. Well, as it turns out, this task won’t be so straightforward as that. I’m not going to spoil anything, but one thing this sequel has over what it’s based on is a bit more intriguing narrative with a couple of twists and turns. I found the pacing and story beats pretty good, even if it can get bogged down in endless sidequests from time to time since there are a ton of them – ranging from great to seemingly meaningless to the overall storyline.

Grizzly ambushing a couple of Legion men, making them regret not taking cover


One thing I have to point out that I found great, as this is a true sequel that follows the overall “plot” of the Jagged Alliance games instead of being a remaster of some kind – and that is that Jagged Alliance 3 is only set one year after the incident in Arulco which directly continues the mythology of the franchise. It makes the games feel like it has a real connection to each other. Jagged Alliance 3 constantly references the other games in the series beyond the mercenaries that you can hire. You can find shots of Metaviron that have healing effects, and this item comes from the trees on the island Metavira where the first game takes place. It’s small things like this that make me think much care and knowledge when into this title, and it makes me appreciate it so much more.

Soldiers of fortune
The mercs available for hire have a pretty good range. Both personality and skill-wise. Many fan favorites are back with a few new ones intermixed. From the ones I hired in my playthrough, I found them for the most part humorous – which the writing is in general. It has this 90s style to it, made to entertain instead of preach. It’s a very refreshing thing indeed, considering how stuff is written nowadays when it comes to media entertainment. However, they are a few mercenaries that I just couldn’t stand, like one of the new ones going by the name Livewire (she also has the most OP object in the game, which tags all opponents that breaks the fun of encounters). There is something with her voice, and her careless attitude that just rubs me the wrong way, but that is not to say all the new mercs are bad. Omryn, which is another recent one, I thought was funny in his constant search for napping and food, even during critical battle moments.

One curious part of the narrative is that the second-rate mercenary company M.E.R.C is still in the game, however, you can’t hire soldiers from them this time around. What makes their presence interesting though, is that they have already been hired and sent to the island for the same reason you are there. This has some cool and engaging story segments to follow and take part in, especially since these pieces have a nice “detective” feeling to them as you will be following their deals and deeds all over the country. It also rewards those that make an effort to understand the narrative, as many paths will be cut off from you if you don’t invest time to save one of them in need for example.

The classic AK47 but silent made for stealth


The overall roleplaying nature of Jagged Alliance 3 when it comes to choice & consequence is pretty impressive. You will be picking between a lot of hard choices throughout the game that all have story events to play out differently depending on what you do and say. It’s not only you that will take part in these events either, as the mercenaries in your group will interject and react to these events. Many of these tasks will also impact the ending of the game in major ways, so make sure to make informed decisions! I had to replay a large part of the game since I got a show-stopping bug during my first playthrough, but thanks to this I got to see events play out way differently from my first attempt. Most of these things are based on how and when you tackle the different quests and places, but it’s very interesting to see Jagged Alliance 3 accompanying these acts as you take them on in a different order. It makes it feel like a truly open-ended campaign, even if it has a set storyline.

Lock and load
Now to the meat and potatoes; the shooting and blasting. There will be a few differences from Jagged Alliance 2 here, but in general, I think they have captured the gritty semi-realistic feeling of the combat from earlier games in the series. One difference here of course is that the game is in full 3D now, with controllable camera and height maps going above one level. The core is the same, though. The turn-based combat is based on “action points”, which will dictate your range of movement and level of aim. At first glance, it might seem a little too close to the nuXcom games, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. It might share similarities, as it will have a low and a high shield icon to represent cover. However, it isn’t much more than that, it’s just an indicator of cover since the most important difference here is a fully simulated ballistic system. That means you can only shoot and hit things you can actually see, so no abstract bull-crap here – no sir! Just like the good old days in the franchise.

3 medics on one guy, he must be important!
This means that you can fully protect your men by hitting the dust, aka going prone behind chest-high cover – and that makes all the difference. NuXcom got its own style and enjoyment, but nothing can match the combat of a fully simulated physics-based system. It’s still chance based, especially when it comes to hitting stuff, yet, the game doesn’t show it to you. According to the devs, it’s to promote players to engage in firefights, instead of getting caught up in finding the perfect percentage chance before firing. It works too! When you aim, you will still get indicators of your chances to hit, and if a target is blocked by something. So, you are not totally blind out there on the battlefield. When you aim at targets, you can either hit the head, chest, arms, groin, and legs, all with different effects. Hitting an unprotected head will do massive damage, yet, it’s hard to hit. Hitting the chest will be easiest, but often it will be protected by armor. Getting a shot on the arms will lower the target’s aim for a turn. It does not do as much damage, but it might help you during the fight. A groin shot (ouch) will “suppress” the enemy, dropping their AP. And finally, shooting a baddie in the legs will slow him down considerably. Making for example an crazed machete guy not be able to reach you during his turn.

Entrenched enemies? Fire is here to help


To expand on this, Jagged Alliance 3 also comes with plenty of different ammo types, and grenades that all have different effects. Hollow-point ammunition will make your targets bleed, and armor-penetrating rounds will wreck protective vests. When it comes to grenades there is a lot of variety too. From gas grenades that will choke your enemies to death, to regular explosives, to molatovs that will set them ablaze. In other words – lots of different ways to murder your fellow man. If that wasn’t enough, beyond skills that you unlock for your mercenaries, the weapons themselves also come with their own specific skill usage. For example, submachine guns come with a hit-and-run skill. This will make the merc take three quick shots against their nearest target along a path you set out. It’s a very useful skill since you can rain down a lot of lead on your enemies with this move. As mentioned, the mercs also get skills when they level up, and there is a lot to pick from based on the stats they have. Also, all of the mercenaries you can hire and find during the campaign have their own specific skill too, which makes them stand out beyond their personality.

Not everything is sunny
There are some issues with the combat, unfortunately. The real-time mode before it switches over to the turn-based combat comes without any pause function, which makes it hard as hell to place your men into the right position before getting spotted. You need the skill levels of a Korean StarCraft 2 master to manage a full group of six, or more in this mode. I’m not sure why it is like this since a pause function would remove all problems with this mode in one go. Another problem is how stealth works, especially in real-time. It’s abstracted instead of being based on line of sight, as much of the rest of the game – like the combat specifically. It mostly depends on stats (and weather and time of day). But if you get a merc skilled enough when it comes to sneaking through levels and perks, it will allow him to go in front of dudes before stabbing them, and that is very silly. The stealth often takes place in real-time too, which combined with my first mentioned issue, makes it extremely finicky to pull off. If you have not made a master ninja that can vanish in front of people that is.

London stabbing caught on camera
One of the things that makes me the most annoyed, is the somewhat suicidal AI, in combination with close-quarters soldiers. Enemies will constantly rush you, often with little regard for their own safety, which means you will more often than not play defensively instead of seeking out the enemy. It can get a bit boring at times, and it makes it easy to abuse the poor AI to walk into killing fields of agonizing death. On the issue of close combat soldiers, well, they break all kinds of realism and immersion the game sets up. These specialists are either half-immortal beings or pent up on some kind of godly PCP drug because these dudes are health-bloat-defined. They dish out extremely high damage while being able to withstand horrific wounds. It makes melee units ironically enough the most dangerous to face in a game based on firearms. It just seems a bit backward to me. While they are challenging, they do feel cheap to the setting, and especially cheap just to make the game harder. The AI overall should have been better, taking fewer risks, and in that way forcing the player to probe and seek them out.

On the way to establishing control of the savanna, somewhat


I almost forgot, there is already a META forming that sniper rifles are the best weapons. While I can see that this could be true because they are very powerful in the hands of a merc with high marksmanship. However, all weapons are, but I assume it’s the pure range and power of stealth attacks that make them so desirable. Yet, the thing is, this is a single-player game, relying on your own personal enjoyment (or your co-op partner, yes the game has co-op), which means you don’t have to use it. Please, don’t optimize the fun out of your games. I already see this happening on the Steam forums with people complaining that the combat is no longer fun and that it is too easy. A META forming around a single-player game is meaningless, and sure, calling out overpowered weapons is a good thing, but strictly using tactics that will ruin the game for you seems honestly stupid, well, if you don’t enjoy exploiting game rules that is.

Strategy
On the strategic layer – let’s call it map mode, you move around your team or teams, pick sectors and whatnot to attack or explore. Here you also repair, heal up, train militia, and educate your mercenaries in skills they might not be so great at. Certain areas have specific uses which will pop up on this menu, like taking breaks in the pub and so on. A most welcome deal after a hard battle, let me tell you. And it’s almost free healing, you just have to pay for the drinks! In this mode, you can also enchant your weapons if you got enough parts and skill in mechanics. How about a suppressor for your sniper rifle, or why not an extended barrel for your shotgun? It’s a fun thing to experiment with, which can make some weapons into legendary artifacts of murder and despair (for the guys on the other side of the barrel). It all works well, and on the harder difficulties, you will have to balance money and time very wisely, at least from the beginning to the midpoint of the game. Later on, money will flow pretty freely, since you don’t have too much to spend it on beyond hiring new mercenaries. See, there is no store in this version – it’s a much more live-of-the-land type of deal in Jagged Alliance 3. I enjoy this, however, it does mean that money means very little in the later stages as there will be nothing to buy. It’s a missed opportunity, sadly, that in the end makes the struggle for survival non-existent outside of the combat.

This meeting went very wrong, very quickly. Or did it?


A looker
The visuals are just splendid, filled with details while having a semi-realistic gritty style, instead of the typical cartoon style that is so popular nowadays (think Fortnite). It got plenty of cool effects too, as your crew of mercenaries will get muddy when crawling around in the filth, and get bloody when wounded. The bodies also lie around on the battlefield where they died. It makes the battlefield come “alive”, especially when you take a look at the aftermath after a hard-won battle. Structures can also be destroyed with heavy enough force, like for example by firing RPG rockets into buildings. However, the destruction is not as advanced as Silent Storm, yet, it looks great and adds enormous flavor to the combat considering it will remain in the state you left them in. One thing I highly miss is that the game does not have rag-doll effects for some baffling reason. I can live with only having animated deaths by bullets, but no rag doll for explosions? I miss it badly, and one of the reasons to blow up stuff is to see dudes flying across the map – loot be damned! Now they either just turn to meaty bloody chunks on the spot they died, or just play one of the canned animations. Very disappointing. Otherwise, Jagged Alliance 3 is fantastic on the graphic front.

War crime in progress
Sound, voice, and music are on the same level as the visuals. Top-notch in other words. One stand out is the soundtrack. It got plenty of good tracks to listen to, that play at random fitting intervals. Nothing reach the same heights as the laptop track from Jagged Alliance 2, but that song is legendary, so it would be almost impossible to top. I think the voice acting is good for the most part, it’s mostly the individuals behind some of the characters they represent that I can’t stand, as the mentioned Livewire merc. But there is nothing wrong with her delivery per se.

Good game
All in all, this is a good sequel to something many considers a very important and classic gaming memory from the past. There are issues of course since nothing is ever perfect, but this follow-up should be regarded as a success because it’s clear a lot of care went into this title to maintain most of the feeling from Jagged Alliance 2. I should also add that the developers are making a real effort to support modding. While the modding tools have not yet been released, there are already mods out on the Steam workshop. This is a good sign for the future. What also is good is that apparently, the game sold very well, which means that it will probably get expansions or DLCs in the future. Jagged Alliance 3 is complete as it is, but extra missions or a new area to liberate would not be wrong. I highly recommend Jagged Alliance 3, especially as someone who cares for the series. It’s a good sequel, worthy of any old fan or new player.

Thanks for reading.


Very enjoyable game, it's clear care went into it, but it still has some issues. Can't wait to see where modding will take it.
After trying JA2 1.13 this review is bullshit. Only thing JA3 has over previous is better UI and graphics and a bunch of QoL improvements


"Better graphics and UI"

JA2 is vastly superior in both cases. JA2 oozes style. JA3 looks like any other modern title especially on the UI front.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,964
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Just started vanilla ja2 playthrough and weapons are even worse compared to 3 rifles triumph over everything lol
I was pretty shocked in both games when these "professional" mercs went into an active combat zone with sidearms.

Pistols are civilian weapons. It's not like an AR15 is especially rare and hard to get, even 20 years ago.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,937
I was pretty shocked in both games when these "professional" mercs went into an active combat zone with sidearms.
Not trying to make excuses, but isn’t this just reflecting that cheap mercs are cheap because they aren’t professionals? At least for JA2, higher tier mercs show up with better equipment. Those cheap mercs are cheap, in part, because they show up nearly naked.
 

Shaki

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
1,719
Location
Hyperborea
Just started vanilla ja2 playthrough and weapons are even worse compared to 3 rifles triumph over everything lol
I was pretty shocked in both games when these "professional" mercs went into an active combat zone with sidearms.

Pistols are civilian weapons. It's not like an AR15 is especially rare and hard to get, even 20 years ago.

In JA2 good mercs actually came with good gear, some people even specifically hired top mercs for short time just for their gear, in early game. Only in JA3 the best mercs money can buy, come equipped with literal trash.
 

Harthwain

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,504
I was pretty shocked in both games when these "professional" mercs went into an active combat zone with sidearms.

Pistols are civilian weapons.
The American military used the M1911 handgun. It saw action in such notable conflicts as WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam. That is just one example of a pistol being used in a military conflict. So I don't agree that "pistols are civilian weapons". But, yeah, a mercenary should have some sort of long-range weapon.
 
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Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
2,146
The high end mercs don't come equipped with modified M24s, but they don't have handguns either. At least Magic came with IIRC MP5, with which he destroyed, and Ivan came with AK47 (of course).
 

oscar

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
8,063
Location
NZ
There's no plausible excuse for your JA2 mercs starting with the crap weaponry they do (World War era pistols in the 90s) beyond balance/fun/challenge.
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
11,162
World War era pistols in the 90s.
The m1911 predates the great war even, and the improved revision from '26 was used by the armed forces up until the mid 80s and is still mass produced so yeah it's not shocking seeing it being used. Wouldn't be shocked if they still made hipowers either.
 
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